Cables or Coat hangers?
- Thread starter joffieb
- Start date
Francois
AVForums Grandmaster
Ai, what a difference I have made in people's lives.....yeah Im praising my own butt arse here....
Guys, Google and the internet made everyone EXPERTS, what BS. Listen for yourself, investigate claims people make YOURSELF, Come on man, explore and learn, don't follow, and FFS don't swallow everything "experts" put in your mouth! :nutter:
I have shown to at least 30, yes THIRTY people this year alone what a difference the right cable makes to their systems. Yes, few were subtle, most were immediately audible and wow, three were so mind-blowing I had to stand back and ask WTF ?
Case in point: Klipsch La Scala (new), Leben CS300 and iFi NEO. I dumped a bunch of Interconnects with the client and waited for the verdict. Gosh was he spot on, ranked all 7 as most of the guys I know have. He is 71 years old, NOT an audiophile, just wanted the LAST system he would ever buy. He spends 3-5h EVERY day now listening. :dop: , he is still in shock, never thought a properly selected cable can be so much better.
Ill say it plainly:
If you cannot hear a difference when the right (not PRICE) cables are put into your system, its your ears, or the source or lack of the systems ability to resolve the details.
Covid is over, you dont believe me ? Come visit, be HONEST, dump your EGO and come hear for yourself. I dont want your money, nor admiration, I just want to introduce you to something "mostly" unexplainable. :thumbs:
Should you now go spend R120k on cables, HELL NO!! rather upgrade your system, it makes a vastly bigger difference :mates: , leave cables to last...fine tuning.
Guys, Google and the internet made everyone EXPERTS, what BS. Listen for yourself, investigate claims people make YOURSELF, Come on man, explore and learn, don't follow, and FFS don't swallow everything "experts" put in your mouth! :nutter:
I have shown to at least 30, yes THIRTY people this year alone what a difference the right cable makes to their systems. Yes, few were subtle, most were immediately audible and wow, three were so mind-blowing I had to stand back and ask WTF ?
Case in point: Klipsch La Scala (new), Leben CS300 and iFi NEO. I dumped a bunch of Interconnects with the client and waited for the verdict. Gosh was he spot on, ranked all 7 as most of the guys I know have. He is 71 years old, NOT an audiophile, just wanted the LAST system he would ever buy. He spends 3-5h EVERY day now listening. :dop: , he is still in shock, never thought a properly selected cable can be so much better.
Ill say it plainly:
If you cannot hear a difference when the right (not PRICE) cables are put into your system, its your ears, or the source or lack of the systems ability to resolve the details.
Covid is over, you dont believe me ? Come visit, be HONEST, dump your EGO and come hear for yourself. I dont want your money, nor admiration, I just want to introduce you to something "mostly" unexplainable. :thumbs:
Should you now go spend R120k on cables, HELL NO!! rather upgrade your system, it makes a vastly bigger difference :mates: , leave cables to last...fine tuning.
goldfritter
AVForums Member
The fact that people were listening at home using their home systems means that the cables were not the only variable under review. People with better systems may have voted more strongly for one option than the other; it would be impossible to control for that. Heck, some may even have done the test on their phone speakers.joffieb said:
To do a reliable test you'd need to control all the variables other than the cable, and change only the cable when doing A/B comparisons, leaving the entire rest of the system the same. You'd also ideally need a large sample size to prove a difference that can't be attributable to luck or chance.
Francois
AVForums Grandmaster
TO NONE of the above posters....
Man, samples ? Controlled situations ? All the "clever" BS. Double blind tests. Any of you working for NASA or MIT ? All just crap to hide peoples inabilities to listen properly of deficiency's in their hearing, or the system under scrutiny. Yea I said it DEFICIENCIES in their HEARING!
And the blown up doll between the ears that is called the EGO.
Sit your butt down, simply change the cables and use the TWO most amazing instrument you have....your EARS!! Stuff Placebo! There is no Placebo involved if you can afford only R5k. For once forget about EVERYTHING and answer this damn simple question!
DID I HEAR A DIFFERENCE ?
DO I LIKE IT ?
IS MY SYSTEM SOUNDING BETTER OR WORSE ?
My God, the opinions and back and forth on this forum is like Democrats and Republicans ?
Can ANY person offer an opinion without running to a GURU, GOD, some wisearse salesman, YOUTUBE, the God GOOGLE ? Are the people so DUMB to NOT form their OWN opinion ?
Did the CD make my system better ? Yes, Can I afford it ? Yes, then buy the thing. Not better, walk ON, explore more. My God, is that so difficult ? If not, do you now advocate CD Players makes no difference ?
Did the sound change positive/negative when I replaced my speaker cable ? No, then walk ON, case closed. But dont now become an EXPERT and say cables makes no difference!?
Gosh that Snake Oil Francois says cables DO make a difference....Gosh he is talking crap, then go there and LISTEN...
then offer the opinion: I(ME), did/didnt hear a difference. FULLSTOP. Dont climb on your "mishoop" :[email protected]: and cry to the world: "CABLES MAKES NO DIFFERENCE". "ALL AMP SOUND THE SAME". "HORNS ARE THE ONLY REAL SPEAKER".
or worse: "I WAS WRONG, THAT xxx MADE SUCH A DIFFERENCE"...the most difficult word for a human being to utter....
99% of the people, ME INCLUDED on this forum, dont have a fricking idea about the science in and around our hobby, Yeah so Im an indeed Electronic Engineer, but I STILL cant make up an ORIGINAL new design like Williamson, Nelson Pass, Koetsu or Wilson and SCHALK HAVENGA! That cheat John Nouwens ? Remember his amps ? Everybody goes Ooooooh, to a circuit from a 1964 book.... I checked yesterday, google EL84, EL34 schematics. HUNDREDS, and all basically the same....tweak here and there....
Any of you found a DIFFERENT way to build a class AB ? To strap in a Triode valve ? Use a 1940 radio valve in some for of small gain preamp ? Yeah we all "design" our output transformers according to a piece of software somebody ELSE wrote :drool: , we "pick" out valves according to the manual :BWAHAHAH:
Stop being CLEVA and listen. Man up and seek your OWN audio nirvana. Even if it means putting pebbles on you DAC for clarity :thumbs:
Man, samples ? Controlled situations ? All the "clever" BS. Double blind tests. Any of you working for NASA or MIT ? All just crap to hide peoples inabilities to listen properly of deficiency's in their hearing, or the system under scrutiny. Yea I said it DEFICIENCIES in their HEARING!
And the blown up doll between the ears that is called the EGO.
Sit your butt down, simply change the cables and use the TWO most amazing instrument you have....your EARS!! Stuff Placebo! There is no Placebo involved if you can afford only R5k. For once forget about EVERYTHING and answer this damn simple question!
DID I HEAR A DIFFERENCE ?
DO I LIKE IT ?
IS MY SYSTEM SOUNDING BETTER OR WORSE ?
My God, the opinions and back and forth on this forum is like Democrats and Republicans ?
Can ANY person offer an opinion without running to a GURU, GOD, some wisearse salesman, YOUTUBE, the God GOOGLE ? Are the people so DUMB to NOT form their OWN opinion ?
Did the CD make my system better ? Yes, Can I afford it ? Yes, then buy the thing. Not better, walk ON, explore more. My God, is that so difficult ? If not, do you now advocate CD Players makes no difference ?
Did the sound change positive/negative when I replaced my speaker cable ? No, then walk ON, case closed. But dont now become an EXPERT and say cables makes no difference!?
Gosh that Snake Oil Francois says cables DO make a difference....Gosh he is talking crap, then go there and LISTEN...
then offer the opinion: I(ME), did/didnt hear a difference. FULLSTOP. Dont climb on your "mishoop" :[email protected]: and cry to the world: "CABLES MAKES NO DIFFERENCE". "ALL AMP SOUND THE SAME". "HORNS ARE THE ONLY REAL SPEAKER".
or worse: "I WAS WRONG, THAT xxx MADE SUCH A DIFFERENCE"...the most difficult word for a human being to utter....
99% of the people, ME INCLUDED on this forum, dont have a fricking idea about the science in and around our hobby, Yeah so Im an indeed Electronic Engineer, but I STILL cant make up an ORIGINAL new design like Williamson, Nelson Pass, Koetsu or Wilson and SCHALK HAVENGA! That cheat John Nouwens ? Remember his amps ? Everybody goes Ooooooh, to a circuit from a 1964 book.... I checked yesterday, google EL84, EL34 schematics. HUNDREDS, and all basically the same....tweak here and there....
Any of you found a DIFFERENT way to build a class AB ? To strap in a Triode valve ? Use a 1940 radio valve in some for of small gain preamp ? Yeah we all "design" our output transformers according to a piece of software somebody ELSE wrote :drool: , we "pick" out valves according to the manual :BWAHAHAH:
Stop being CLEVA and listen. Man up and seek your OWN audio nirvana. Even if it means putting pebbles on you DAC for clarity :thumbs:
goldfritter
AVForums Member
That is quite a response to a few simple comments on how the original article isn't really a reliable way to determine whether cables or coat hangers are better... I don't think anyone here really implied that cables can't improve a system, merely that the original article's attempt at a "scientific" test falls short.
This experiment would ordinarily fall under fundamental research- the type that does not generate findings that have immediate applications in a practical manner. Consequently, I've just made my point, and I don't see the necessity to say more on this.
However, seeing that this article had the potential to touch some of us in our studios as audio enthusiasts, I will give my opinion on the piece.
As a departure point, I think we should appreciate the objective of the editorial; a generalization has been concluded about the significance of cables in the listening experience of music, and In my opinion, there is no wrong or right answer as the findings will always be based on perception, hence the research is a generalization.
Secondly, the chosen topic (hypoth?sis) that cables of inferior quality should sound "little different" to expensive ones is yet another generalization which gets some of us frothing at the mouth...I find this funny actually
because the writer achieved the goal of raising blood pressures for the fun of it...Lol!
Alas, the writer quickly transitions to what I felt was a more sustainable theory ( "very few people can tell the difference between high quality cables and cables consisting of interconnects and coathangers) albeit, it suffers from zero practicality to modern day music listening by enthusiasts, but in spite of that, it passes as a fundamental research topic.
So if you see the trees from the forest in this article, and you had the fortitude to read through it all, like me, you will simply smile, then walk over to your Blupunkt system, insert the Brook Benton cassette and listen away to nirvana!
To summarize, there is also the omission of demand & supply as a significant variable in the article, if there is a willing buyer for a pair of the Crown prince 35th anniversary cables costing ?15,000.00 quid for a pair, then clearly there is value as derived by the customer.
However, seeing that this article had the potential to touch some of us in our studios as audio enthusiasts, I will give my opinion on the piece.
As a departure point, I think we should appreciate the objective of the editorial; a generalization has been concluded about the significance of cables in the listening experience of music, and In my opinion, there is no wrong or right answer as the findings will always be based on perception, hence the research is a generalization.
Secondly, the chosen topic (hypoth?sis) that cables of inferior quality should sound "little different" to expensive ones is yet another generalization which gets some of us frothing at the mouth...I find this funny actually
because the writer achieved the goal of raising blood pressures for the fun of it...Lol! Alas, the writer quickly transitions to what I felt was a more sustainable theory ( "very few people can tell the difference between high quality cables and cables consisting of interconnects and coathangers) albeit, it suffers from zero practicality to modern day music listening by enthusiasts, but in spite of that, it passes as a fundamental research topic.
So if you see the trees from the forest in this article, and you had the fortitude to read through it all, like me, you will simply smile, then walk over to your Blupunkt system, insert the Brook Benton cassette and listen away to nirvana!
To summarize, there is also the omission of demand & supply as a significant variable in the article, if there is a willing buyer for a pair of the Crown prince 35th anniversary cables costing ?15,000.00 quid for a pair, then clearly there is value as derived by the customer.
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