chipwelder
AVForums Grandmaster
Herewith the non-audiophile way to musical joy and happiness. This is the result of my 15+ years of contemplating audio on a shoestring... and most of it is probably wrong on some level... but what do you want? to be right, or happy? Oh wait... this is the internet... you probably want to be right.
Premises:
1. Good deep bass is nice... it is also expensive.
2. Cheap bass sucks and is obtrusive.
3. Time is not that expensive if you are having fun.
4. Frequency response is important... kinda, sorta... i.e. spikes and sound dropping off a cliff is obtrusive - check phase. Smooth dips and raises just colour.
5. Cohesion in sound is very important.
6. Enough real detail is very important.
7. Your ears adjust to smooth frequency response issues.
8. Audible distortion sucks big time.
9. Congestion sounds bad... i.e. many sound sources with phase issues
10. My measurements by ear and otherwise... are somewhat in the right ballpark. Which if you know me is perhaps more a caveat than a premise.
11. You desire for better or worse... to be THERE when listening to music...
The best sounding systems don't allow much audible distortion. Distortion comes from overworked drivers... cabinets that compete with the drivers... diffraction that gives spikes and first order reflection... yeah... technically all this aint distortion... but it sounds damn close.
So what you do want is a system with a smooth frequency response, that is not tilted one way or the other, enough detail, little distortion and a great cross-over... i hear the speaker builders saying... and how you gonna get that on a shoestring? You get it by sacrificing a flat frequency reponse... and spl... and low bass... as would be measured anechoically. And an appropriately sized room, or speaker as in the -6dB wavelength corresponds to the short room dimension... the -10dB corresponds to long dimension more or less... that wump at 60 -100 hz in the speaker should not interact fundamentally with the room. And by listening and listening and moving speakers... a lot. And by getting good-ish sources and appropriate amplifiers...
You know why valves and small unassuming speakers can sound so damn involving... their frequency response was done on wednesday... to mangle a Timbre_Mg phrase i recently heard... the reaally good ones sound like they do awesome bass... they don't. They insinuate awesome bass. They roll off slowly and they use room boundaries... but not between 100 and 400 hz... that just gets you a congested sound.
So you have a wednesday response that is flattish around 200 to 2k5 Hz and tapers gently above and below that...
You know why cheap floorstanders can be so dissapointing? Their cabinet design was finalised by the bean counters on friday afternoon after 15h00... and thus give you congestion in the 100- 2000Hz region if not more... it starts to output significantly in the bass which may or may not give you wobbly bass... and of course the box is adding lots below 100hz too... but the phase prolly sux...
The easiest way to do this, is a largeish think vas or more... sealed enclosure that just touches 35 to 50 hz in most rooms, a really stiff box that is ankered solidly. Bass reflex can also do this... but it tends not to be textbook stuff...
A very freestanding position... preferably with little first reflections.
A two-way with a tweeter that has a very low Fs... it is usually clearly better than the woofer... so that you can cross low... avoiding the horrible hole or shout in the midrange... depending on how you place the speaker. A manly 5" woofer is good, a nice 6" needs an even better tweeter... it may be worth it. 8 "... not easily...
2.5way 5"/6" is possibly better... less baffle step leading to large excursion... just resist trying to eke out the last out of deep loud low bass... and make the .5 kick in lower than the edge calc would suggest.
These results are not limited to the diy spikkanatic... they can be found in older used to be expensive 2way speakers...
Notable speakers that show this is the watt puppy did this a little bit except it spread the frequency response a bit further... audio physic step... and i believe virgo... chario academy stand mounters...bbc ls3/5 iirc. Old b&w 602... somewhat... i suspect the small stand mounted dynaudios too...
This somewhat forward low distortion decent phase, presentation is aimed at creating that elusive you are there feeling, by having enough compression to show details... and having enough good quality detail so it doesnt strain... and well a forward presentation...
It is probably ridiculed by the perfectionists and those that can afford good deep low bass along with low distortion. But they will probably value the honest sound it makes. Good deep low bass, i havent heard this side of r70k new price...
It's called be confident in what you can do... be good enough at the rest... and hide the flaws by not opening your mouth.
It has the added benefit that over time it makes other possibly better, larger speakers sound somewhat dull in comparison... and not quite worth the money... now if your speaker actually tried to emulate the larger possibly better speaker... well then it would have lost quite a bit of fun and gained very little of the larger speaker...
YMMV>
Premises:
1. Good deep bass is nice... it is also expensive.
2. Cheap bass sucks and is obtrusive.
3. Time is not that expensive if you are having fun.
4. Frequency response is important... kinda, sorta... i.e. spikes and sound dropping off a cliff is obtrusive - check phase. Smooth dips and raises just colour.
5. Cohesion in sound is very important.
6. Enough real detail is very important.
7. Your ears adjust to smooth frequency response issues.
8. Audible distortion sucks big time.
9. Congestion sounds bad... i.e. many sound sources with phase issues
10. My measurements by ear and otherwise... are somewhat in the right ballpark. Which if you know me is perhaps more a caveat than a premise.
11. You desire for better or worse... to be THERE when listening to music...
The best sounding systems don't allow much audible distortion. Distortion comes from overworked drivers... cabinets that compete with the drivers... diffraction that gives spikes and first order reflection... yeah... technically all this aint distortion... but it sounds damn close.
So what you do want is a system with a smooth frequency response, that is not tilted one way or the other, enough detail, little distortion and a great cross-over... i hear the speaker builders saying... and how you gonna get that on a shoestring? You get it by sacrificing a flat frequency reponse... and spl... and low bass... as would be measured anechoically. And an appropriately sized room, or speaker as in the -6dB wavelength corresponds to the short room dimension... the -10dB corresponds to long dimension more or less... that wump at 60 -100 hz in the speaker should not interact fundamentally with the room. And by listening and listening and moving speakers... a lot. And by getting good-ish sources and appropriate amplifiers...
You know why valves and small unassuming speakers can sound so damn involving... their frequency response was done on wednesday... to mangle a Timbre_Mg phrase i recently heard... the reaally good ones sound like they do awesome bass... they don't. They insinuate awesome bass. They roll off slowly and they use room boundaries... but not between 100 and 400 hz... that just gets you a congested sound.
So you have a wednesday response that is flattish around 200 to 2k5 Hz and tapers gently above and below that...
You know why cheap floorstanders can be so dissapointing? Their cabinet design was finalised by the bean counters on friday afternoon after 15h00... and thus give you congestion in the 100- 2000Hz region if not more... it starts to output significantly in the bass which may or may not give you wobbly bass... and of course the box is adding lots below 100hz too... but the phase prolly sux...
The easiest way to do this, is a largeish think vas or more... sealed enclosure that just touches 35 to 50 hz in most rooms, a really stiff box that is ankered solidly. Bass reflex can also do this... but it tends not to be textbook stuff...
A very freestanding position... preferably with little first reflections.
A two-way with a tweeter that has a very low Fs... it is usually clearly better than the woofer... so that you can cross low... avoiding the horrible hole or shout in the midrange... depending on how you place the speaker. A manly 5" woofer is good, a nice 6" needs an even better tweeter... it may be worth it. 8 "... not easily...
2.5way 5"/6" is possibly better... less baffle step leading to large excursion... just resist trying to eke out the last out of deep loud low bass... and make the .5 kick in lower than the edge calc would suggest.
These results are not limited to the diy spikkanatic... they can be found in older used to be expensive 2way speakers...
Notable speakers that show this is the watt puppy did this a little bit except it spread the frequency response a bit further... audio physic step... and i believe virgo... chario academy stand mounters...bbc ls3/5 iirc. Old b&w 602... somewhat... i suspect the small stand mounted dynaudios too...
This somewhat forward low distortion decent phase, presentation is aimed at creating that elusive you are there feeling, by having enough compression to show details... and having enough good quality detail so it doesnt strain... and well a forward presentation...
It is probably ridiculed by the perfectionists and those that can afford good deep low bass along with low distortion. But they will probably value the honest sound it makes. Good deep low bass, i havent heard this side of r70k new price...
It's called be confident in what you can do... be good enough at the rest... and hide the flaws by not opening your mouth.
It has the added benefit that over time it makes other possibly better, larger speakers sound somewhat dull in comparison... and not quite worth the money... now if your speaker actually tried to emulate the larger possibly better speaker... well then it would have lost quite a bit of fun and gained very little of the larger speaker...
YMMV>
