Another speaker cable dilemma

Retrovega

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Hey guys so I?m busy researching speaker cables to use with my new Monitor audio gold 300?s (4th gen). Currently using QED silver anniversary xt (which from what I can find out is effectively 1,5mm) in bi-wire( bluesound powernode) and bi-amped (denon 4700h) terminated with nakamichi banana plugs. Soon to be run off the emotiva xpa-5 gen 1. So in reading and from my electrical engineering background - electrical properties of the conductors come into play with different thickness and quality of the copper and arrangement of the conductors.  All that is all good and well. The current carrying capacity to drive an 4/8 ohm load using the very simplified P=I2R(or Z) gives a value of between 7 and 5 amps to deliver 200W. Which is well below the current carrying capacity of a 1,5mm copper cable.

So essentially I have 2 questions.

1) would a thicker QED cable increase the audio qualities? Reason for QED, keeping the technology and materials relatively constant.
2) would a different more ?premium? type cable make a significant enough difference? QED was around R180/m. Van den hul CS 122 I thing is around R450/m and others of around R1000/m.

What about simply using a generic 4mm cable that is made of good quality copper?

Sorry, but just trying to wrap my head around this whole thing?.

This below article was an interesting read

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/the-best-speaker-cable/amp/
 

chrisc

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A thicker cable will allow you to deliver more current.  It will go from loud to extremely loud
If you can, bi-wiring has distinct advantages

I am not a cable evangelist, so to spend huge sums on exotic cables is unnecessary.  But whatever pleases you

Many reviews are written by someone wanting to promote a product and can be biassed.  As the article states - this is the least important component
 

Wolla

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Some good advice: don?t listen to [member=746]chrisc[/member] . He dismisses any cable discussion with authority (and serious bias).

Get hold of a decent set of speaker cables and decide for yourself - you can thank me later.

If you are blessed with a decent set of ears, you will reap the benefits. Many audiophiles spend similar or even more money as their other components, on the best cables they can afford, not because they have money to burn, but because they hear and experience the benefits.
 

chrisc

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Also don't forget cable lifters.  And not anything made by gluing two matchboxes together.  Get the REAL THING.  Like Coca-cola, it will make a difference

I know Wolla swears by them

eZXXjWH.jpg
 

Agaton Sax

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Speaker (or any cable) is like cooking with herbs. You can cook a perfectly fine dish with no herbs but the right herb added at the right time can turn an otherwise mundane but perfectly eatable dish into an occasion. On the other hand, the wrong herb in the wrong amounts can ruin something perfectly listenable...errr, eatable. So too with a speaker cable.

However, one man's glorious Cilantro is another man's "Ughhh". You may love the warmth of a copper wire but seriously dislike the sluggishness and opacification of a too thick copper wire or you may love the airiness and openness of pure silver in Teflon on soft dome tweeters or hate its harshness and glare on metal tweeters. The next guy may prefer the exact opposite. Then you can add Saffron at thousands of Rands and get a nice looking dish that tastes the same as Borrie at a slightly less sophisticated yellow colour but hey if your palette is really tuned it may well taste orgasmic. Oh dear, am I confusing my herbs with spices again? 

Yes, there are people slaving in laboratories to determine what goes with what food and there are old virtually illiterate Grandmothers who just know from what they were told by their grandmothers and through countless flops what herb goes with what. And like with food, there is always the next meal to try another cable with but beware if you try too much without settling the pleasure of cooking may disappear.

And no, I can't cook and know nothing about cables in other people's systems.
 

scrarfussi

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Retrovega said:
Hey guys so I?m busy researching speaker cables to use with my new Monitor audio gold 300?s (4th gen). Currently using QED silver anniversary xt (which from what I can find out is effectively 1,5mm) in bi-wire( bluesound powernode) and bi-amped (denon 4700h) terminated with nakamichi banana plugs. Soon to be run off the emotiva xpa-5 gen 1. So in reading and from my electrical engineering background - electrical properties of the conductors come into play with different thickness and quality of the copper and arrangement of the conductors.  All that is all good and well. The current carrying capacity to drive an 4/8 ohm load using the very simplified P=I2R(or Z) gives a value of between 7 and 5 amps to deliver 200W. Which is well below the current carrying capacity of a 1,5mm copper cable.

So essentially I have 2 questions.

1) would a thicker QED cable increase the audio qualities? Reason for QED, keeping the technology and materials relatively constant.
2) would a different more ?premium? type cable make a significant enough difference? QED was around R180/m. Van den hul CS 122 I thing is around R450/m and others of around R1000/m.

What about simply using a generic 4mm cable that is made of good quality copper?

Sorry, but just trying to wrap my head around this whole thing?.

This below article was an interesting read

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/the-best-speaker-cable/amp/

There is no best speaker cable. its about synergy. also its not really about thickness as a 14awg will work just as well as a 14awg
a certain cables may appear bright the high frequencies
others maybe warm also its not about price you may spend R450 pm on the van den hull and not like it .
then again it also depends on your listening.
 

johanhp

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Found this video interesting. Looks like one of the properties is the way it is constructed not just thickness or material.

https://youtu.be/DC0s6KqQz3g

Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk

 

chrisc

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At a club meeting in the 1980s given by Gerhard van Rooyen, he stated that there is no one-size-fits all, but to achieve audio bliss, its all about matching.

So further to Mr Sax's scholarly comment, you have to mix and match until the right combination appears

Isn't that a good portion of what this hobby, and this forum is all about?

Good luck of course
 

Cuco

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I guess one needs to try different cables before deciding on what sounds best for oneself. Another persons opinion doesn't really matter. A cheap cable may sound better to one then a Porsche 911 money speaker cable.

https://www.transparentcable.com/collections/analog-audio-speaker-cables

So the 4mm copper cable may sound better to you then the Magnum Opus Spekaer cable (Porsche 911) for instance. Yes, the higher end cable will be more transparent, have a higher frequency range, more dynamics but will it be musical with your specific setup? That's for you to decide.

My advice would be to stick to the 4mm good quality copper cable and don't go into the cable thing. You'll end up where you started. However, I guess it is a process that one needs to go through.
 

Retrovega

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Thanks for all the inputs and perspective guys. Really good to hear different views and options.

Someone once told me the cables can only reveal what?s inherent in your system, it cannot add anything beyond that. However it can remove characteristics from your system. So therefore your aim should be to get the cable that reveals the full capability of your components.

Now this is an exercise that takes a lot of time and a lot more money. But like has been said it?s probably a journey that some must take, and some can completely ignore. I do have to say that when I changed from the audioquest type4 cables to the QED, I noticed an immediate difference in the sound - it sounded a bit lighter with the QED, somewhat lacking it low end but at the same time had more clarity and detail and this is before I even started researching this topic, I only did it cos the audioquest was too short for my new room. So I guess like has been said? it?s going to come down to a personal preference and budget. 

If there is anybody who has recommendations of cables that they use or prefer please share with me.
Thanks.
 

Mushroom

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjQJxeTANE&ab_channel=GR-Research

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIaKjmlyRCQ&ab_channel=GR-Research

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrjstmjROW8&ab_channel=GR-Research
 

Cordell

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I have, in the last 2 years discovered the beauty and joy that comes from cable upgrades. It is said that cables cant make a system, but they can break a system. 1 thing that Guillaume taught me, which i found to be very true, through trial, time and again, is that while bi wiring does bring out the detail in the highs and possibly the lows (depending on your cable) you actually tend to loose out detail and often warmth in the mids. Rather, The Denon should be capable of bi amping, in the settings, (4 connectors on each end of each cable ) and this brings out the best in all fields. Just make sure the pants are long enough to reach to the height inputs on the far end of the receiver... This imo is definitely worth exploring, particularly if you can get your hands on audioquest bi amping cables
 

Cordell

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This should be possible with the Emotiva as well. If you are still yearning for more after trying it out, look at other models higher up the spectrum of vdh, not bi amped but with good jumpers. I have recently moved to the Breeze and it has enhanced the previously 'flat' and uninspiring music. Even Madonna now offers a complexity in most of her songs that ive never heard before
 

Cordell

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In my experience, on shorter lengths ,its not the thickness thats makes a difference but the material used and how its treated.
I have used a very thick lower guage Monster cable and found it to be very detailed yet slightly tinny and harsh , creating quicker listening fatique, whilst my Transparent music wave plus is also thicker than than the audioquest Rocket 33 and VDH Breeze, and presents a powerful realistic somewhat rounded sound, but only offers average imaging and compromised soundstage. The QED is known for its clarity, while VDH has a smoother side. I am a fan of the hybrid models incorporating some silver to bring out the detail without sounding overly coloured. With this in mind, VDH Clearwater comes highly recommended
 

WarrenD

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Cordell said:
In my experience, on shorter lengths ,its not the thickness thats makes a difference but the material used and how its treated.
I have used a very thick lower guage Monster cable and found it to be very detailed yet slightly tinny and harsh , creating quicker listening fatique, whilst my Transparent music wave plus is also thicker than than the audioquest Rocket 33 and VDH Breeze, and presents a powerful realistic somewhat rounded sound, but only offers average imaging and compromised soundstage. The QED is known for its clarity, while VDH has a smoother side. I am a fan of the hybrid models incorporating some silver to bring out the detail without sounding overly coloured. With this in mind, VDH Clearwater comes highly recommended

I agree. I was using a 9 gauge 7(9)s copper cable which was great for the start of my audio journey however once I purchased the Monitor gold 200 5G speakers I wanted the best out of the speakers and discovered that OCC copper cables are the way to go if you want a significant improvement, but the cost will go up significantly too. I opted for Furutech OCC cables and find them sensational and they 12 gauge cables.
 

Vinotinto81

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Hi
I had also had long journey of Cable serching, and used MIT, JPS labo, PAD, Acrolink, etc etc.
buth what I get as knowledge through it is that "different cable has different tast", " there is no final answer of what is ultimate cable".

however, I could find my preference and it is "sigle core(or dobule -triple core) structure" and " Purity of Cu?, because of it simpleness of sound without any original echo/touch/test.
Now I prefer to using single core cable to all Line/Power/Speaker cables.
Line Cable has "8N" purity and 5N for Power and Line cables.

if you are interested in such single core cable, I can recommend you to use normal LAN cable (Cat5 or cat6 or any )as the speaker cable.
as you know this is "single core" cable x 8 in a cable.
it is not expensive and good for your experiment.
to tell the trouth, I sometime use LAN cable as speaker cables so that I not feel any bad point from that.

hope this helps your "cable journey"
regards



 
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