AVForums South Africa

Audio/Video Hardware => Audio Visual Technology => Topic started by: Spurge on November 04, 2018, 04:11:14 PM

Title: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Spurge on November 04, 2018, 04:11:14 PM
I notice Makro is offering an 86" LG for R55,000 in a Sunday Times add-in booklet.

Have we now reached "kill the projector" TV's?
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: chrisc on November 04, 2018, 04:15:26 PM
I suppose if you have the space, it would provide a better picture than a projector.  However, at that price, some of the top end projectors offer a stunning picture, amazing contrast and black levels
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: BiZKiT on November 05, 2018, 07:37:18 AM
nope...to small!
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: greglsh on November 06, 2018, 09:09:36 PM
Not yet

My projector is 120" so a little bit to go still.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: The kock on November 11, 2018, 04:14:46 PM
Im also in the market at the moment and the same TV you mentioned but the 75" 4K TV is selling for under 30K at the moment and I think thats quite a lot of value. My living area wont except a projector because I have way to much natural sun light so I have to look at these options.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Spurge on November 27, 2018, 11:50:00 PM
It is my opinion that as soon as TV's over 80" become "affordable" and common, more than 50% of the home theatre demand for projectors will disappear.

Main reasons >>>

@The kock >> TV's run for longer in light filled rooms. Their pictures are not washed out as for projectors. They last for 60,000 hours as opposed to only a 6,000 hour lifespan of a projector

Houses are becoming smaller. Walls against which TV's can be placed are just over 4m wide. An 80" TV hardly leaves space on the sides of the TV to place speakers given that TV are placed on the short walls of rectangular rooms.

Houses are becoming smaller. There are no longer spare rooms that can be dedicated to projector viewing.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: DeonC on November 28, 2018, 05:16:51 AM
They last for 60,000 hours as opposed to only a 6,000 hour lifespan of a projector

These days you get projectors that do not work with lamps, but with LEDs, and they have the same lifespan as a TV. Still expensive, but they do exist.

As far as space is concerned- I have a motorized screen. Only down when you need it. When done, it moves out of the way, so it does not actually take up any space under normal circumstances.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: BiZKiT on November 28, 2018, 05:40:14 AM
It is my opinion that as soon as TV's over 80" become "affordable" and common, more than 50% of the home theatre demand for projectors will disappear.

Main reasons >>>

@The kock >> TV's run for longer in light filled rooms. Their pictures are not washed out as for projectors. They last for 60,000 hours as opposed to only a 6,000 hour lifespan of a projector

Houses are becoming smaller. Walls against which TV's can be placed are just over 4m wide. An 80" TV hardly leaves space on the sides of the TV to place speakers given that TV are placed on the short walls of rectangular rooms.

Houses are becoming smaller. There are no longer spare rooms that can be dedicated to projector viewing.

You are not at all up to date with projectors...me for one cant stand OLED i think its the biggest crap ever invented. Light is also not a friend of OLED at all.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: KenMasters on November 28, 2018, 07:13:07 AM
You are not at all up to date with projectors...me for one cant stand OLED i think its the biggest crap ever invented. Light is also not a friend of OLED at all.

Why? They provide a fantastic picture, and peak brightness is more than double that of a regular HDTV LCD, so it's not as though they're useless in a bright living room - though you'd need to lower gamma in order to make out more of the low level detail (not because the image would wash out as it would with a projector, but because the bright ambient environment would make it hard for your eyes to pick out detail with such a deep black level). Of course it's in a less bright living room situation that they really shine given those deep blacks, ultimately in a bright room a good Ultra HD FALD LCD is the way to go.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: The kock on November 28, 2018, 09:42:37 AM
It is my opinion that as soon as TV's over 80" become "affordable" and common, more than 50% of the home theatre demand for projectors will disappear.

Main reasons >>>

@The kock >> TV's run for longer in light filled rooms. Their pictures are not washed out as for projectors. They last for 60,000 hours as opposed to only a 6,000 hour lifespan of a projector

Houses are becoming smaller. Walls against which TV's can be placed are just over 4m wide. An 80" TV hardly leaves space on the sides of the TV to place speakers given that TV are placed on the short walls of rectangular rooms.

Houses are becoming smaller. There are no longer spare rooms that can be dedicated to projector viewing.

Well I have ordered my LG Model: 75UK7050 for my room with lots of light and a big wall, will receive it Monday next week and let you know what its like.

Paid R28K for it so thought its good value.

Will keep  you posted
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: KenMasters on November 28, 2018, 09:58:38 AM
Well I have ordered my LG Model: 75UK7050 for my room with lots of light and a big wall, will receive it Monday next week and let you know what its like.

Paid R28K for it so thought its good value.

Will keep  you posted

That's the best use case for an IPS LCD - you'll get the benefit of the wider viewing angle and the higher black floor will make shadow detail easier to make out while still appearing black perceptually.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: BiZKiT on November 28, 2018, 11:02:20 AM
just dont like it. The glare irritates me where my Qled is much better in my bright room. Qled for me is also more striking with brightness. The burn in also makes me worry like with old plasma tvs. If it needs to be in a dark room rather go projector, tv is meant for normal rooms.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: BiZKiT on November 28, 2018, 11:04:35 AM
Well I have ordered my LG Model: 75UK7050 for my room with lots of light and a big wall, will receive it Monday next week and let you know what its like.

Paid R28K for it so thought its good value.

Will keep  you posted

Yes that makes it worth it :thumbs:
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: KenMasters on November 28, 2018, 11:40:22 AM
just dont like it. The glare irritates me where my Qled is much better in my bright room. Qled for me is also more striking with brightness. The burn in also makes me worry like with old plasma tvs. If it needs to be in a dark room rather go projector, tv is meant for normal rooms.

It doesn't need to be in a dark room, OLEDs are fine in normal living room condition. QLEDs are just LCD TVs, the branding is there to suggest an association with OLED, since Samsung would never actually implement a product from their chief rival.

Samsung's banking on Micro-LED displays to come to the rescue, but development is taking time. On paper it'll be the perfect marriage between the strengths of OLED and LCD.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: BiZKiT on November 28, 2018, 05:17:42 PM
It doesn't need to be in a dark room, OLEDs are fine in normal living room condition. QLEDs are just LCD TVs, the branding is there to suggest an association with OLED, since Samsung would never actually implement a product from their chief rival.

Samsung's banking on Micro-LED displays to come to the rescue, but development is taking time. On paper it'll be the perfect marriage between the strengths of OLED and LCD.

Ill stick with samsung just dont like oled something feels off to me.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Jaws on November 28, 2018, 07:32:34 PM
Yes that makes it worth it :thumbs:
just dont like it. The glare irritates me where my Qled is much better in my bright room. Qled for me is also more striking with brightness. The burn in also makes me worry like with old plasma tvs. If it needs to be in a dark room rather go projector, tv is meant for normal rooms.
Don't stress about burn in. My 10year old plasma has absolutely no burn in what so ever. I guess the pixel shift feature took care of that issue.

Sent from my Redmi 4X using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: KenMasters on November 28, 2018, 09:08:14 PM
Don't stress about burn in. My 10year old plasma has absolutely no burn in what so ever. I guess the pixel shift feature took care of that issue.

And OLEDs are much less susceptible than plasmas.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: The kock on November 29, 2018, 08:22:26 AM
Don't stress about burn in. My 10year old plasma has absolutely no burn in what so ever. I guess the pixel shift feature took care of that issue.

Sent from my Redmi 4X using Tapatalk

I must say I agree here I have one 8 year old Plasma that gets used every day by the family and another in the bar and I dont seem to have ever battled with the "burn in" etc. touch wood.

Also still cant touch the plasma's for movement on sport etc. still prefer this to the new TV's when it comes to basic DSTV sport, so Im actually keeping my 55" plasma's for the bar until one day they burn out.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Drifter on November 29, 2018, 10:29:15 AM
I have a 10 year old Samsung 43 inch Plasma that my son has been using as a Playstation monitor for the past 4 years. I tried to educate him about burn in but after the 10th time of him walking away and leaving the TV on a static image for hours on end and me blowing my top, I have officially given up. I have been pretty surprised that even after all of the abuse there has been no burn in. The panel started degrading after it was about 3 years old as it is starting to make "stars" in the one corner and it has slowly gotten worse over the years. I've just left it as it is still okay for Playstation use.

My 4 year old Samsung series 8 FHD 55' LED TV is a piece of junk. It developed dead pixels after less than a year, panel was replaced in warranty but for the past 2 years restarts itself constantly. It also drops the wifi connection (router is literally in the room next to it) as the tv seems to disable its wifi receiver regularly.

I won't buy a Samsung TV again. My FIL has a LG and the OS is way better than Samsung's IMHO.

I love my projector (Optoma HD50). I have a 120 inch screen. An OLED 4k TV may give you more brightness and ultimate detail but there is no substitute for size. You can buy this projector for R10k used and a 80 odd inch tv will cost you R50k. It is a no brainer for me. Stick with your old tv for the news and boer soek 'n vrou and get a projector and pull down screen for when you watch to movies.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: The kock on November 29, 2018, 01:58:57 PM
I have a 10 year old Samsung 43 inch Plasma that my son has been using as a Playstation monitor for the past 4 years. I tried to educate him about burn in but after the 10th time of him walking away and leaving the TV on a static image for hours on end and me blowing my top, I have officially given up. I have been pretty surprised that even after all of the abuse there has been no burn in. The panel started degrading after it was about 3 years old as it is starting to make "stars" in the one corner and it has slowly gotten worse over the years. I've just left it as it is still okay for Playstation use.

My 4 year old Samsung series 8 FHD 55' LED TV is a piece of junk. It developed dead pixels after less than a year, panel was replaced in warranty but for the past 2 years restarts itself constantly. It also drops the wifi connection (router is literally in the room next to it) as the tv seems to disable its wifi receiver regularly.

I won't buy a Samsung TV again. My FIL has a LG and the OS is way better than Samsung's IMHO.

I love my projector (Optoma HD50). I have a 120 inch screen. An OLED 4k TV may give you more brightness and ultimate detail but there is no substitute for size. You can buy this projector for R10k used and a 80 odd inch tv will cost you R50k. It is a no brainer for me. Stick with your old tv for the news and boer soek 'n vrou and get a projector and pull down screen for when you watch to movies.

I agree 100% with this my living room just has a 3m x 6m window on the one side so even after having RS4 there as I was sold on the Optoma UHD65 we agreed its not going to work in that room. so I bought this TV for living space and then when I progress with the cinema room then the Optoma comes back into play as that room has no windows at all :clap:
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: MeTsU on November 29, 2018, 09:12:31 PM
I've never ventured into projectors and I'm starting to want to make the move towards one.  So sadly I can't really add to the conversation from personal experience but I could possibly add why I'd like to go the projector route.

We currently have an aged Samsung UA50F5000, which looks to small for the room (was bought prior to the house we are in now, so fitted that room somewhat).

Our lounge is 4.5m x 5.5m roughly and we can control the light pretty well in the room (blinds as well as curtains).  The viewing distance from couch to TV / wall is about 3.5m (from the 4.5m section) so a 1m lost to couch and positioning. 

The wall area available to cast an image onto is approximately 3.m wide and 3m (floor to ceiling) and obviously we would allow for the height to be reduced by at most 1m.

I'm no professional but it looks like we have the possibility to go the projector route.  The costs associated with a large TV are pretty intense to compare to the likes of a good projector.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: kenvanraas on November 29, 2018, 09:19:07 PM
Its a bit like audio,digital vs vinyl?
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: BiZKiT on November 30, 2018, 04:35:27 AM
I've never ventured into projectors and I'm starting to want to make the move towards one.  So sadly I can't really add to the conversation from personal experience but I could possibly add why I'd like to go the projector route.

We currently have an aged Samsung UA50F5000, which looks to small for the room (was bought prior to the house we are in now, so fitted that room somewhat).

Our lounge is 4.5m x 5.5m roughly and we can control the light pretty well in the room (blinds as well as curtains).  The viewing distance from couch to TV / wall is about 3.5m (from the 4.5m section) so a 1m lost to couch and positioning. 

The wall area available to cast an image onto is approximately 3.m wide and 3m (floor to ceiling) and obviously we would allow for the height to be reduced by at most 1m.

I'm no professional but it looks like we have the possibility to go the projector route.  The costs associated with a large TV are pretty intense to compare to the likes of a good projector.

Yes that is exactly what i have and im running 120". You can go for a nice projector and screen setup for 15-20k or 20-30k if you want 4k. Contact me if you want more info.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: MeTsU on November 30, 2018, 06:24:48 AM
Yes that is exactly what i have and im running 120". You can go for a nice projector and screen setup for 15-20k or 20-30k if you want 4k. Contact me if you want more info.
Thanks, will do.  Sorry to all for the slight off topic.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: The kock on November 30, 2018, 10:40:14 AM
Go check out that Optoma UHD 65 its the bomb digaty
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Dolby on November 30, 2018, 11:45:04 AM
me for one cant stand OLED

I'm not in the same 'can't stand it' camp as you ;)

But when I was in the market for a TV, on another forum they were saying night and day ... QLEDs with grey black levels ... dull ... marketing gimmick. They told me how Dolby Vision (which is one thing I really wanted!) was streets ahead of HDR10. They really gave the impression of this holographic image and I was told that once I had seen OLED, I could not go back to normal TV.

And to be honest? I just could not see the magical image they were chatting about. I was lucky enough to go into a store with both sets on display and spent an hour comparing the two. It's great - make no mistake - but nothing magical popped out at me :(

I think somewhere is an OLED club and everyone pats each other on the back every few weeks to commend themselves on their purchase.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: KenMasters on November 30, 2018, 01:04:33 PM
I'm not in the same 'can't stand it' camp as you ;)

But when I was in the market for a TV, on another forum they were saying night and day ... QLEDs with grey black levels ... dull ... marketing gimmick. They told me how Dolby Vision (which is one thing I really wanted!) was streets ahead of HDR10.

HDR10 and Dolby Vision deliver exactly the same thing, the only difference is that Dolby Vision's metadata is dynamic, so tone mapping is carried out on a scene for scene basis, whereas HDR10 sticks with a single data set thoughout a piece of content. You'd have to compare side by side to see the benefit of the dynamic approach - on the flip side, more can go wrong with a dynamic system, some content might have raised black levels in certain scenes for example.

And to be honest? I just could not see the magical image they were chatting about. I was lucky enough to go into a store with both sets on display and spent an hour comparing the two. It's great - make no mistake - but nothing magical popped out at me :(

I think somewhere is an OLED club and everyone pats each other on the back every few weeks to commend themselves on their purchase.

A showroom floor is not the place to compare TVs unfortunately. In a living room environment (conducive to critical viewing) the benefits of OLED over LCD are apparent (at least to those who are concerned about image quality).
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Dolby on November 30, 2018, 01:17:24 PM
A showroom floor is not the place to compare TVs unfortunately. In a living room environment the benefits of OLED over LCD are apparent (at least to those who are concerned about image quality).

But how apparent ?
Does anything jump out?

If I read any review on the QLED that is out there, they tend to conclude with something like 'QLED is fantastic, but OLED is ahead.' Reviews say it's a BMW vs Audi or a Ferrari vs Lamborghini ... but the way people talk it's a clear, landslide Toyota vs Porsche. Maybe I'm sitting with the Toyota in my living room right now ;)

At the end of the day there was a R15,000 difference (huge special on the QLED) and I not a chance there was a huge difference between the two. Had there been a R2,000 difference - then maybe.

There was a few features I was upset about losing on the LG - such as Dolby Vision (I'd like to be able to do both standards) and more importantly, the Netflix Atmos on the LG. But I really liked the single fibre cord to the QLED which made and the Smartthings integration.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: BiZKiT on November 30, 2018, 01:22:06 PM
Its so hard to explain it to someone. For me the best tv i had was the 64" series 8 plasma. Then now i have the series 8 QLED, got it to where it is almost as good as the plasma but it is very good in light. When i go to my projector i dont get the same brightness but the image is more natural enjoyable. Pop in 4K HDR in the projector and its exactly as bright as the tv and juest as good bar the black levels on dark scenes.

OLED for me was the same it just does nothing special for me, put them side by side on either and i cant justify the extra and it all feels like they are trying to hard to make this work. Maybe they are onto something but for me its not there yet. 
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: KenMasters on November 30, 2018, 01:31:38 PM
But how apparent ?
Does anything jump out?

If I read any review on the QLED that is out there, they tend to conclude with something like 'QLED is fantastic, but OLED is ahead.' Reviews say it's a BMW vs Audi or a Ferrari vs Lamborghini ... but the way people talk it's a clear, landslide Toyota vs Porsche. Maybe I'm sitting with the Toyota in my living room right now ;)

To me it is that big a difference (and I don't know what reviews you're reading). Edge lit LCDs have much counting against them, I would never be satisfied with one personally. There's DSE (dirty screen effect) created by the backlit nature of the screen that's unmissable in pans, black is not truly black and fluctuates when there are brighter elements on the screen - you can't have specular highlights without contaminating the surrounding black areas robbing HDR of much of its effectiveness. There's no pixel trailing with OLEDs as there is with LCDs. Letterboxes in films stay pitch black, they don't illuminate in sections with brighter elements on the screen. OLED just provides a more solid and satisfying image - certainly far more filmic than edge-lit LCDs.

At the end of the day there was a R15,000 difference (huge special on the QLED) and I not a chance there was a huge difference between the two. Had there been a R2,000 difference - then maybe.

These are value judgements we can only make for ourselves.

There was a few features I was upset about losing on the LG - such as Dolby Vision (I'd like to be able to do both standards) and more importantly, the Netflix Atmos on the LG. But I really liked the single fibre cord to the QLED which made and the Smartthings integration.

Really, on an edge lit LCD, doubtful you'd notice a difference - edge lit LCDs are simply not much cop at HDR. Also, they are not two different standards, there is a single standard, BT2100 (PQ EOTF) - Dolby Vision and HDR10 are two ways of delivering this standard. Dolby came up with it and gave the tech away for free as HDR10 to ensure that it would be incorporated in the Ultra HD standard - they then provide the option to manufacturers to license Dolby Vision as a more sophisticated delivery solution. If a piece of content falls within your TV's capabilities, then HDR10 and Dolby Vision should produce identical images since no tone mapping would be required.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Dolby on November 30, 2018, 02:33:05 PM
Thanks - yea I'm happy with my QLED actually :)

I have a question on the Netflix Atmos LG TVs have though ... how do you get that sound out the TV?
I believe neither ARC nor SPDIF can do Atmos? Is there another way?
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: KenMasters on November 30, 2018, 02:59:38 PM
I have a question on the Netflix Atmos LG TVs have though ... how do you get that sound out the TV?
I believe neither ARC nor SPDIF can do Atmos? Is there another way?

It does work through HDMI ARC, but not optical.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: The kock on December 02, 2018, 06:31:41 AM
I suppose similar to the sound discussions it comes down to preference, but for me personally there is always a value discussion that comes into play and I hope like hell i wont be eating my own hat after I unpack and watch on my new set but I was sold on the LG C8 OLED (65" OLED R53k) at the same time there was the 75" UHD TV im buying for half the price, and I also compared in store and did not find the improvement to be worth the additional money and decided that and extra 10" for half the price and still 4K tv.

in my world value always comes into play and I'm hoping the TV delivers on that as that is where the expectation is set, but to an earlier comment I  was also not blown away between the quality on the two different sets on HD where we compared same content like for like .

Perhaps I have an untrained eye and therefore cant pick up the difference.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Dolby on December 02, 2018, 09:04:35 AM
Perhaps I have an untrained eye and therefore cant pick up the difference.

Maybe that's my issue too.

I was looking at a 65" Samsung QLED or 65" LG OLED. Standard price was similar at R40ish for the units - but they had a massive special at R29,995.00 for the QLED. Try and try and try as I may, I didn't see the huge difference and thought the R10,000+ saving was better (which incidentally got me a used set of Kef LS50 :)
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: KenMasters on December 02, 2018, 12:15:55 PM
It's like speakers, you'll find most everyone agrees they want good sound, but to most of those that just means being able to crank it and have it go doof, doof. The finer points are neither here nor there, certainly not when you look at the pricing of the speakers the "experts" go on about compared to the deal you appear to be getting on the Sony Mgongo down at Game.

Of course if the Mgongo level is all you're familiar with, then why wouldn't you be happy? Sometimes it's better to not know, and sometimes we really just don't care. The key I think is to be honest with yourself, what is it that you really want out of or appreciate in a display?
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Morne Coetzee on December 02, 2018, 12:34:21 PM
Not yet

My projector is 120" so a little bit to go still.

Currently you can buy OLED up to 206 inches off the shelf, although I am sure being the 3rd world country that we are no one would stock it. Technically you can have any size you like even IMAX size if you so wish since they now are modular in design. As with so much in life it just depends what you can afford to pay. There is currently a house on sale in the US that I believe used to have the giggest 4K TV around 20 meters or so but that is from a couple of years back. Believe it or not the SA market is not at the forefront of technology.  :giggle:
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: KenMasters on December 02, 2018, 12:48:22 PM
Speaking of modular displays, Micro-LED TVs (though sure to be prohibitively expensive at first) are going to make us rethink screen sizes, to my mind this is the display technology that will kill the projector. It's not just going to be implemented in our living rooms but in movie theatres as well in order to provide HDR to cinema goers. I would imagine the facility will be there to order individual modules to make up your own giant HDR display at home.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: The kock on December 06, 2018, 09:58:24 AM
I suppose similar to the sound discussions it comes down to preference, but for me personally there is always a value discussion that comes into play and I hope like hell i wont be eating my own hat after I unpack and watch on my new set but I was sold on the LG C8 OLED (65" OLED R53k) at the same time there was the 75" UHD TV im buying for half the price, and I also compared in store and did not find the improvement to be worth the additional money and decided that and extra 10" for half the price and still 4K tv.

in my world value always comes into play and I'm hoping the TV delivers on that as that is where the expectation is set, but to an earlier comment I  was also not blown away between the quality on the two different sets on HD where we compared same content like for like .

Perhaps I have an untrained eye and therefore cant pick up the difference.

I am pleased to report that my 75"  "value" TV is up and I have only put DSTV through it but I am chuffed  :2thumbs: it really looks good once I sorted out the motion on the settings, color is good and the size is great in this modest sized room. Even sport is reasonably good or good enough shall I say.

I have not het watched proper HD 1080p or 4K but it can only get better from where I am now so If anybody is in the market for one of these sets from my side its an absolute no brainer at the price.

Always lekker when an upgrade comes off better than expected!!! cant wait to fit the M1's to the set up this evening 
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Des Miles on December 06, 2018, 01:20:16 PM
^^^^^

If I may ask, what 75" TV did you purchase? I"m thinking of going the same way as my 5 y.o. Acer projector is nearing it"s end.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Kemosabe on December 06, 2018, 09:04:04 PM
Sitting here in the dark looking at my 4" screen it strikes me that any TV connected to an inverter and batteries is better than any other TV not connected to one.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Kruger.vdMerwe on December 07, 2018, 02:06:49 AM
Sitting here in the dark looking at my 4" screen it strikes me that any TV connected to an inverter and batteries is better than any other TV not connected to one.

Well said Sire! When are we going to start talking about gensets, solar and batteries to power and protect all our fancy new gear? Do you know what a power spike looks like on your fancy new q\o led screen? Smokey!
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: The kock on December 07, 2018, 01:36:10 PM
^^^^^

If I may ask, what 75" TV did you purchase? I"m thinking of going the same way as my 5 y.o. Acer projector is nearing it"s end.

LG 75 UHD 7050 I think its on special for round R30k
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: KenMasters on December 07, 2018, 02:05:29 PM
LG 75 UHD 7050 I think its on special for round R30k

Is you living room quite bright, do you watch TV with the lights on?
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: ShaunD on December 08, 2018, 05:19:55 PM
Hi all

I have the option of getting the LG 75UK7050 or the Samsung 65Q7FN for the same price of R30k

which would be the better option if must my viewing is DSTV.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: KenMasters on December 08, 2018, 06:55:23 PM
Hi all

I have the option of getting the LG 75UK7050 or the Samsung 65Q7FN for the same price of R30k

which would be the better option if must my viewing is DSTV.

A case of screen size vs performance. The Q7 will offer better contrast, since VA panels produce deeper blacks, but the IPS panels LG uses have wider viewing angles, and 10" is nothing to scoff about. Like for like the Samsung is a no brainer, the size gives pause for thought though.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: greglsh on December 08, 2018, 08:17:02 PM
Hi

I am one of the people that have the Lg OLED C7 65 inch 4k tv, The picture quality is supurb on these tv's, I was able to get this at a good discounted price and was also looking at the QLED tv's at the same time. The picture quality on the QLED was very good but I just liked the LG a bit more. I had watched many many reviews on the internet before making my choice and at the time (before the C8 came out) the vast majority of the reviewers said that the LG OLED C7 was the best TV available at the time. Have had my tv for about 5 months now and enjoy it everyday.

P.S. I also have a 120" projector which I drop down for sports, so best of both I think.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Steerpike on December 09, 2018, 02:51:44 AM
Sitting here in the dark looking at my 4" screen it strikes me that any TV connected to an inverter and batteries is better than any other TV not connected to one.

(http://www.scooter-forums.com/2e0vpx/images/sinclair/tvad1x600.jpg)
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: The kock on December 10, 2018, 09:32:01 AM
Hi

I am one of the people that have the Lg OLED C7 65 inch 4k tv, The picture quality is supurb on these tv's, I was able to get this at a good discounted price and was also looking at the QLED tv's at the same time. The picture quality on the QLED was very good but I just liked the LG a bit more. I had watched many many reviews on the internet before making my choice and at the time (before the C8 came out) the vast majority of the reviewers said that the LG OLED C7 was the best TV available at the time. Have had my tv for about 5 months now and enjoy it everyday.

P.S. I also have a 120" projector which I drop down for sports, so best of both I think.

That sounds like a great setup and I agree gives best of both!!
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Simango4 on December 18, 2018, 12:49:25 PM
Question, for the QLED owners or users:

At night, with all lights off (I mean completely no other source of light except your TV), what does a completely black scene look like? (Grey or Black)

For example, some transitions in movies are really black including some movies dark scenes with totally black areas, under these conditions, does the TV look black or grayish black?

Unfortunately, showrooms are a totally bad way of checking or comparing black level performance, even my 2013/14 LG LED TV (50LA62xxx) looks really black in a lit room, but once you turn off the lights, black looks annoyingly grey. Although It has feature that switches off the back-light if the content is pitch back black (like a totally black transition etc.), but the response is quite slow for fast changing scenes that it sometimes doesn't switch off, but when it does, it makes a great visual effect, it literally looks "OFF" because well, the back-light is OFF, but the moment a white little object like a mouse pointer moves across the screen or there happen to be a star or two in the middle of a dark night sky, it gets back to it's illuminated black that looks grey...this is the part that I doubt QLED solved adequately like OLED did.

Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Ju_dy@RT on December 18, 2018, 03:37:59 PM
Have been watching this thread... now I can't resist any more.  Personally I think it may be the right PROJECTOR SCREEN that will kill most TV's.  :popcorn:

Eskom can't kill it... Lightning can't kill it... and best of all, midnight shoppers won't touch it.

Just putting it out there... https://www.facebook.com/Remedytec/videos/855047447928437/ (https://www.facebook.com/Remedytec/videos/855047447928437/)

Don't ask me how... I call it pixy dust... at least that's what I tell my clients.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Gallderhen on December 18, 2018, 05:16:21 PM
Just putting it out there... https://www.facebook.com/Remedytec/videos/855047447928437/ (https://www.facebook.com/Remedytec/videos/855047447928437/)

Its actually called the Black Diamond screen, but lets not split hairs :P

I've been trying to get some local pricing on the SI screens, specially the Slate ones that's more affordable. Best I saw was audioholics thats got the fixed 133" screen around R87k, and the motorized flush in the region of R110-R120K.

Gonna take me quite a long time to save up for it :'(

-G-
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: BiZKiT on December 19, 2018, 04:25:12 AM
Its actually called the Black Diamond screen, but lets not split hairs :P

I've been trying to get some local pricing on the SI screens, specially the Slate ones that's more affordable. Best I saw was audioholics thats got the fixed 133" screen around R87k, and the motorized flush in the region of R110-R120K.

Gonna take me quite a long time to save up for it :'(

-G-

I can get them for you much cheaper but im still not paying that for a screen.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Ju_dy@RT on December 19, 2018, 09:56:28 AM
Its actually called the Black Diamond screen, but lets not split hairs :P

I've been trying to get some local pricing on the SI screens, specially the Slate ones that's more affordable. Best I saw was audioholics thats got the fixed 133" screen around R87k, and the motorized flush in the region of R110-R120K.

Gonna take me quite a long time to save up for it :'(

-G-

yeah.. I know. I sell them too  ;).   They start from about half the price you mentioned for a pretty good size screen, if you dont need the fancy backlights and whatnot.  PM me if you are interested.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Simango4 on December 20, 2018, 11:00:33 AM
Question, for the QLED owners or users:

At night, with all lights off (I mean completely no other source of light except your TV), what does a completely black scene look like? (Grey or Black)

For example, some transitions in movies are really black including some movies dark scenes with totally black areas, under these conditions, does the TV look black or grayish black?

Unfortunately, showrooms are a totally bad way of checking or comparing black level performance, even my 2013/14 LG LED TV (50LA62xxx) looks really black in a lit room, but once you turn off the lights, black looks annoyingly grey. Although It has feature that switches off the back-light if the content is pitch back black (like a totally black transition etc.), but the response is quite slow for fast changing scenes that it sometimes doesn't switch off, but when it does, it makes a great visual effect, it literally looks "OFF" because well, the back-light is OFF, but the moment a white little object like a mouse pointer moves across the screen or there happen to be a star or two in the middle of a dark night sky, it gets back to it's illuminated black that looks grey...this is the part that I doubt QLED solved adequately like OLED did.
So this is what i meant by grey vs completely black screen (well, in this case, TV backlight off due to totally black content vs the grey that appears when the mouse appears on a totally black background)

I forgot to compensate the auto exposure on the last pic (overhead lights off with the mouse on black background, in reality, the grey in that case was almost the same as the one with overhead lights ON, just a slightly brighter - i.e. the difference is not as extreme as it appears here)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/e322f86cd1672dc530db02340dd1250e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/4ba897c1d418d7cb02c75bd17ce0ac99.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/d74ebb763ac21d212ecc53ad74eff539.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/382ef1992e1b74de7be83a3ca0df462b.jpg)

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Simango4 on December 20, 2018, 11:06:16 AM
So this is what i meant by grey vs completely black screen (well, in this case, TV backlight off due to totally black content vs the grey that appears when the mouse appears on a totally black background)

I forgot to compensate the auto exposure on the last pic (overhead lights off with the mouse on black background, in reality, the grey in that case was almost the same as the one with overhead lights ON, just a slightly brighter - i.e. the difference is not as extreme as it appears here)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/e322f86cd1672dc530db02340dd1250e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/4ba897c1d418d7cb02c75bd17ce0ac99.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/d74ebb763ac21d212ecc53ad74eff539.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/382ef1992e1b74de7be83a3ca0df462b.jpg)

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Could we have some night posts of OLED & QLED TV displays (with totally black scenes - without the total "backlight off" in use if present)

This could make a decent practical comparison (provided we make sure the camera exposure is compensated to capture & show a fairly close image to the real view you had)

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: KenMasters on December 20, 2018, 02:02:27 PM
Could we have some night posts of OLED & QLED TV displays (with totally black scenes - without the total "backlight off" in use if present)

This could make a decent practical comparison (provided we make sure the camera exposure is compensated to capture & show a fairly close image to the real view you had)

Pointless to do that with an OLED, black is completely, 100% black. Also, there is no backlight on an OLED, it's a self emmissive display.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Simango4 on December 20, 2018, 02:24:16 PM
Pointless to do that with an OLED, black is completely, 100% black. Also, there is no backlight on an OLED, it's a self emmissive display.

Yes, backlight applies to QLED screens, that's where the "backlight-off trick" must be disabled for a useful comparison, but it would help give us a practical idea (rather than theoretical) of the difference between the black level performance of OLED vs QLED in complete darkness...where it matters
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: KenMasters on December 20, 2018, 02:45:03 PM
Yes, backlight applies to QLED screens, that's where the "backlight-off trick" must be disabled for a useful comparison, but it would help give us a practical idea (rather than theoretical) of the difference between the black level performance of OLED vs QLED in complete darkness...where it matters

There is no comparison. Edge lit QLEDs have the same black floor as any other VA panel and will have a visible glow in a dark room, not as bright as an LG which uses an IPS panel though. You also can't switch off the backlight pseudo-local dimming. The black level also rises in bands where there are bright elements on screen, so using a mouse pointer will result in a vertical column of light at that point.

Also I don't think photos are going to tell you much, given differences in exposure and room conditions. Here's a point of reference for you though, watch from the 3:50 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DasKXyyXs2Q
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Simango4 on December 20, 2018, 03:08:29 PM
There is no comparison. Edge lit QLEDs have the same black floor as any other VA panel and will have a visible glow in a dark room, not as bright as an LG which uses an IPS panel though. You also can't switch off the backlight auto-adjustment. The black level also rises in bands where there are bright elements on screen, so using a mouse pointer will result in a vertical column of light at that point.

Also I don't think photos are going to tell you much, given differences in exposure and room conditions.

The idea is not to determine which between OLED vs QLED is better, we all know, but most of us don't have practical comparison since shops do not offer such an experience. The backlight auto-off function is just a feature that switches off the backlight based on content displayed (basically the backlight decreases until it switches off completely), but the user has no direct control in terms of switching backlight on/off directly. I assumed that these modern LED TVs (QLED) might have it (probably an even quick responding version) given that my 2013 LED TV had it, so in case they do, it's best to disable it before it dostorts the comparison.

Regarding exposure, this is the reason i mentioned that the camera exposure needs compensation (basically, manual exposure) to ensure that it matches reality as fairly close as possible. Almost all smart camera phones allows Pro-Mode when taking photos, that may enable better control over exposure if the Auto mode does not allow exposure adjustment.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Simango4 on December 20, 2018, 03:41:03 PM
watch from the 3:50 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DasKXyyXs2Q

My internet connection in my current location is very unstable to stream videos well, the buffering is extremely unbearable  :headbanger:...i'll check it later when i'm at home.

Though i saw it's about an edge lit Samie review if i got that patch correctly given the extreme buffering...in the case of of this comparison, i was hoping someone with a full array of LED backlight QLED would also pop a picture of their screen in a dark room.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: KenMasters on December 20, 2018, 03:48:12 PM
The idea is not to determine which between OLED vs QLED is better, we all know, but most of us don't have practical comparison since shops do not offer such an experience. The backlight auto-off function is just a feature that switches off the backlight based on content displayed (basically the backlight decreases until it switches off completely), but the user has no direct control in terms of switching backlight on/off directly. I assumed that these modern LED TVs (QLED) might have it (probably an even quick responding version) given that my 2013 LED TV had it, so in case they do, it's best to disable it before it dostorts the comparison.

As I mentioned, you can't disable it. They call it "local-dimming", but it's not true local dimming like you'd find with a FALD LCD display. It dims and brightens the edge lights depending on the content on screen (in columns shining up as the LEDs are arranged along the bottom of the screen).

Regarding exposure, this is the reason i mentioned that the camera exposure needs compensation (basically, manual exposure) to ensure that it matches reality as fairly close as possible. Almost all smart camera phones allows Pro-Mode when taking photos, that may enable better control over exposure if the Auto mode does not allow exposure adjustment.

I get that, but in my experience that's not going to be an effective means of comparison.

My internet connection in my current location is very unstable to stream videos well, the buffering is extremely unbearable  :headbanger:...i'll check it later when i'm at home.

Though i saw it's about an edge lit Samie review if i got that patch correctly given the extreme buffering...in the case of of this comparison, i was hoping someone with a full array of LED backlight QLED would also pop a picture of their screen in a dark room.

Only the Q9 is a FALD display, the rest are all edge lit, same as the NU.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Curlycat on December 20, 2018, 05:15:04 PM
Its actually called the Black Diamond screen, but lets not split hairs :P

I've been trying to get some local pricing on the SI screens, specially the Slate ones that's more affordable. Best I saw was audioholics thats got the fixed 133" screen around R87k, and the motorized flush in the region of R110-R120K.

Gonna take me quite a long time to save up for it :'(

-G-

Nah man, I am disgusted. Is someone making a lot of money?

When I think of less fortunate people and the state the planet is in, things like this just makes me angry and sad!
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Steerpike on December 21, 2018, 01:56:47 AM
Nah man, I am disgusted. Is someone making a lot of money?
When I think of less fortunate people and the state the planet is in, things like this just makes me angry and sad!

Making exotic displays does cost a lot in many years of research and failed experiments/trials.
The first colour CRTs were also very expensive in their time, they only became cheap as volumes increased.
The first TV sets available in SA sold for around R1000. That was a lot of money in the 1970s.

But I cannot 'see' that any TV shows or films are worth that amount of money to watch.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Dolby on December 23, 2018, 09:27:52 AM
The idea is not to determine which between OLED vs QLED is better, we all know, but most of us don't have practical comparison since shops do not offer such an experience

Like I mentioned earlier, I really didn't see the difference discusseded. I expected to see ink black OLED and washed out grey QLED. However, this was in the shop.

It definitely wasn't a R15,000 difference between the two and at home in a dark room, I have no issues with 'grey' screen. In fact with all the negativity around QLED, I was pleasantly surprised.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Simango4 on December 24, 2018, 11:30:08 AM
It definitely wasn't a R15,000 difference between the two and at home in a dark room, I have no issues with 'grey' screen. In fact with all the negativity around QLED, I was pleasantly surprised.

Is that to say the QLED you've used at home paints fairly black "black" instead of grayish black in a completely dark room?

Can you please post a picture of the TV with black content like movie cast if possible?  :pray: (with exposure compensation to make the photo paint an honest picture)
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Dolby on December 24, 2018, 02:44:06 PM
Sure - I'll do is this evening.

What settings do I need to take off on the camera to get an accurate photo?

Otherwise, if you're around Randburg you're more than welcome to come past one evening and check it out for yourself.
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Spurge on January 08, 2019, 10:50:04 PM
CES 2019 Las Vegas

Another nail is added to the coffin for projectors

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/gadgets/290898-samsung-unveils-massive-219-inch-4k-the-wall-tv.html/amp
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: Gallderhen on January 09, 2019, 11:19:20 AM
CES 2019 Las Vegas

Another nail is added to the coffin for projectors

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/gadgets/290898-samsung-unveils-massive-219-inch-4k-the-wall-tv.html/amp

If LG comes up with a 133 inch roll-up TV, then I'd get that, otherwise I'm still planning on getting a projector.

-G-
Title: Re: Kill the projector TV's
Post by: The kock on January 18, 2019, 11:44:35 AM
CES 2019 Las Vegas

Another nail is added to the coffin for projectors

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/gadgets/290898-samsung-unveils-massive-219-inch-4k-the-wall-tv.html/amp
:dop:

You will have to buy this TV and then build your house around it.