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Audio/Video Hardware => Audio Visual Technology => Topic started by: Carnajo on November 25, 2019, 12:41:36 PM

Title: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: Carnajo on November 25, 2019, 12:41:36 PM
Hi all. Just wondering from those whove either upgraded or had the opportunity to try Atmos with 2 vs 4 overhead speakers wheather there is a significant jump or benefit in x.x.4 over x.x.2? Just wondering whether it is worth the extra effort and cost or not?


This would be a single couch lounge setup, so not a dedicated home theater with 2 rows of seats etc.
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: KenMasters on November 25, 2019, 01:12:09 PM
The difference is as you would suspect, you lose out on the overhead panning effects, like an aircraft passing over your head, or the helicopter in the Dolby Atmos audio demo. Effects like someone talking from above, rain falling or the din of an office should sound fairly similar though. I would opt for 4 overhead speakers if I had the option.
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: Drifter on November 25, 2019, 02:35:41 PM
I went from x.x.2 to x.x.4 and I have a single row of seats.

x.x.2 is perfect if you don't have the space for multiple rows of in-ceiling speakers such as people with a setup where their couch is right up against the rear wall. In this position, even if you have one row above the couch and the second row much further forward, except if you have in-ceiling speakers will a directional tweeter or speakers with exceptional dispersion characteristics, you are going loose out on the effects coming from that front row.

If you can accommodate 4 in-ceiling speakers, the effect you get is better but only if your in-ceiling speakers are positioned correctly.
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: Carnajo on November 25, 2019, 02:51:01 PM
Thanks guys. I do have the space (couch isn't against the back wall), it is more the cost (vs benefit I guess) and the mission of getting atmos speakers installed when I have a slab roof (would need wall mounters pointing down I guess or a cabinet built for in-ceiling speakers mounted to the ceiling).

Speaking of which. Anyone ever chased speaker cable into slab ceiling (I suspect one shouldn't go into the actual slab for structural reasons so it would be chasing into the plaster, which probably isn't thick enough)?
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: Drifter on November 25, 2019, 03:08:21 PM
I think you have 4 options:

1. Install a false ceiling a few centimetres below the slab. The in-ceiling speakers are very shallow and don't need much clearance room. You can then run the cables inside the false ceiling.
2. Build custom housings for the in-ceiling speakers which you mount to the slab. The cables run in conduits. Look for a post entitled "steam punk Atmos" on here to see what Jason Willemse has done.
3. As per 2 above but you use wall mountable speakers (rather than in-ceiling models) again using conduits for the cable. Frank on the forum has done with M&K dipoles and they work great.
4. As per 3 above but install the Atmos speakers where the cornice is i.e. were the wall meets the slab. This position will result in no cabling to be done running over the actual slab. Although not ideal, many people have done this and I guess it is better than nothing. You should still get a decent effect especially if your room is narrow.
 
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: Carnajo on November 25, 2019, 03:24:57 PM
I think you have 4 options:

1. Install a false ceiling a few centimetres below the slab. The in-ceiling speakers are very shallow and don't need much clearance room. You can then run the cables inside the false ceiling.
2. Build custom housings for the in-ceiling speakers which you mount to the slab. The cables run in conduits. Look for a post entitled "steam punk Atmos" on here to see what Jason Willemse has done.
3. As per 2 above but you use wall mountable speakers (rather than in-ceiling models) again using conduits for the cable. Frank on the forum has done with M&K dipoles and they work great.
4. As per 3 above but install the Atmos speakers where the cornice is i.e. were the wall meets the slab. This position will result in no cabling to be done running over the actual slab. Although not ideal, many people have done this and I guess it is better than nothing. You should still get a decent effect especially if your room is narrow.


Pretty much what I was thinking myself.

1 and 4 won't work that easy. My ceiling isn't too high so wouldn't want to really make it feel lower but more importantly it is an open plan so the area to cover would extend into the dining area and then kitchen. Can maybe just do the TV area but it might look strange with a step. Instead what I thought would be 2 bulkheads running overhead that would house the speakers and downlights. 2 parallel strips basically.


2&3 probably the easiest and cheapest option as opposed to building a full bulkhead.


Probably worth mentioning that I have a DIY handicap so even attempting to build the bulkhead on my own would not work at all.
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: Jason Willemse on November 25, 2019, 03:55:02 PM

2&3 probably the easiest and cheapest option

Hell no. The bulkhead would have been far easier... and cheaper. Attempt only if up for the challenge!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191125/fb86fbc504e40a42fcede79699de9e93.plist)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: Carnajo on November 25, 2019, 04:11:11 PM
Hell no. The bulkhead would have been far easier... and cheaper. Attempt only if up for the challenge!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

First, I had just looked up your thread, and that is super awesome. Really nicely done.


My thoughts were nowhere near as elaborate. More like cable in those plastic conduits I would paint over, and it would be a straight line, and get someone to install the speakers. Either the in ceilings in a box or something like a small wall mounter.

What did you make the ceiling speaker housing out of? Might be the angle but it looks quite deep.
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: Jason Willemse on November 25, 2019, 04:31:35 PM
First, I had just looked up your thread, and that is super awesome. Really nicely done.


My thoughts were nowhere near as elaborate. More like cable in those plastic conduits I would paint over, and it would be a straight line, and get someone to install the speakers. Either the in ceilings in a box or something like a small wall mounter.

What did you make the ceiling speaker housing out of? Might be the angle but it looks quite deep.
Thank you.

They were rings cut out of 16mm MDF, laminated and finished off. They are large roof speakers... 10”ers - so  required a little volume in the cabinet.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191125/2194f352c11b511a53dcd2ef62a30e46.file)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191125/96f6bf383b9f3fafd619ef074ecaa36f.file)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: Carnajo on November 25, 2019, 04:40:13 PM
Thank you.

They were rings cut out of 16mm MDF, laminated and finished off. They are large roof speakers... 10”ers - so  required a little volume in the cabinet.



That's pretty hefty!


I'm thinking something smaller for my needs. I think the Bentley's are 6" so would get away with something sleeker.

As an aside I just discovered this:

https://sewelldirect.com/products/ghost-wire-2-0-super-flat-adhesive-wire-16-awg-2-conductor-white
https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Adhesive-Speaker-Conductor-Sewell/dp/B079NTKWS2

Run across the ceiling, paint over.
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: Jason Willemse on November 25, 2019, 04:44:49 PM

That's pretty hefty!


I'm thinking something smaller for my needs. I think the Bentley's are 6" so would get away with something sleeker.

As an aside I just discovered this:

https://sewelldirect.com/products/ghost-wire-2-0-super-flat-adhesive-wire-16-awg-2-conductor-white
https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Adhesive-Speaker-Conductor-Sewell/dp/B079NTKWS2

Run across the ceiling, paint over.
That’s a pretty neat cable solution. I used the Bentley ceiling speakers in my other 5.1.2 setup. They work perfectly well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: Carnajo on November 25, 2019, 04:51:01 PM
Another interesting solution I considered was to replace my downlights and install track lighting and do something like light---speaker---light---speaker or similar. Would need to be smaller speakers for but for atmos I thought would be fine. Or something similar, install speaker in a pendant light or some such.
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: Jason Willemse on November 25, 2019, 05:02:54 PM
Another interesting solution I considered was to replace my downlights and install track lighting and do something like light---speaker---light---speaker or similar. Would need to be smaller speakers for but for atmos I thought would be fine. Or something similar, install speaker in a pendant light or some such.
On a higher ceiling... a great idea.

Try and keep a good vertical distance between yourself and the ceiling speakers.


(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191125/164cd0fb4f4f2444cef86af042401df5.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: adie on November 25, 2019, 05:32:57 PM
That Ghost wire is nifty.
Another way, if getting Ghost Wire is a schlep- is to use flat cable and stick duct tape over it, then paint.
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: Carnajo on November 25, 2019, 10:21:54 PM
That Ghost wire is nifty.
Another way, if getting Ghost Wire is a schlep- is to use flat cable and stick duct tape over it, then paint.

Never seen flat wire before, where can one get it?
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: adie on November 26, 2019, 08:17:03 AM
Car audio installers often use it. I have - in the distant past- seen it at HiFi Corp, maybe Makro, but Durban car audio guys have it on a roll.
Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: Carnajo on November 26, 2019, 08:52:35 AM
@adie thanks, will check it out. Seems Amazon does ship here, nut not exactly a cheap option, so worth checking alternatives.

That said I think I've come up with the best solution.

4 of these suction cupped to the ceiling (https://www.loot.co.za/product/raz-tech-waterproof-portable-mini-bluetooth-shower-spea/ncfk-5912-g390) and some bluetooth transmitters.  :rubhands:

That said, I'm surprised there aren't more wireless solutions, even for regular 5.1 or so. Seems like the only wireless options are sonos soundbar with sonos rears, HEOS AVR (and only that model, the Denon AVRs with HEOS support can't do HEOS speaker as a surround/atmos speakers, only for multi-room audio or different zones).

Title: Re: Dolby Atmos x.x.2 vs x.x.4
Post by: Carnajo on December 02, 2019, 12:05:11 PM
Decided that I'd go for some small wallmounters mounted on the ceiling, can get ghost wire from Amazon. The "flat cable" I managed to find was still around 2mm thick and not that much cheaper than the ghose wire which I can just paint over.

Only problem is... budget :( need a new AVR and some other things came up. Will probably only be able to upgrade next year (which sucks because some good black-friday pricing around).

Still... would have been fun to get battery powered bluetooth speakers (or wifi connected e.g. heos or sonos), no wires, just pop them down to charge every now and then.