AVForums South Africa

Audio/Video Hardware => Acoustics and Room treatment => Topic started by: ajscheid on May 29, 2019, 03:23:20 PM

Title: Noob questions wrt upgrade from sound projector to 5.1.2/7.2
Post by: ajscheid on May 29, 2019, 03:23:20 PM
Hi,

I recently upgraded to a 4k projector Optoma UHD300X along with the Xbox One X.
The visuals are displayed on a motorized 95" screen.
The sound is presently produced by a Yamaha YSP-4100 sound projector together with a Boston Acoustic ASW250 Sub.
The Yamaha unfortunately does not handle 4k passthrough, so I am looking for an upgrade to 5.1.2/7.2 AVR and a appropriate speaker set.

Problem is my room; it is very small and only measures 3,3x3,3 meters. Here are some pics:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190529/f279a6592d7196bc106b685e2859ee7f.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190529/20e5507cd5b85dac55d4510286dce708.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190529/7d323035974a8a33b40029a2075aaec0.jpg)

So basically the viewing distance is somewhere around 2.9 m from the screen and remaining distance to the rear wall is a mere 15 to 35 cm depending how relaxed you sit.....

Additionally the ceiling is sloping from one side to the other from 2.74 m on the high side to 2.32 on the low one.

I am wondering if I will be able to experience a better surround sound when switching over to a dedicated system compared to the sound projector.

The projector works but I don’t get rear sound.

Question would be if I get rear sound with my seating position anyways so close to the back wall.

Another concern I have would be the size of the speakers; it really doesn’t make sense to go for massive floor standers as there wouldn’t be any space left and right of the screen; which end 64 cm above ground.

Lastly how would a sidewise sloping ceiling affect ceiling mounted high speakers vs atmos enabled speakers; the algorithm surely wouldn’t be able to compensate that?

So the real question is: does an upgrade to a 5.1.2 or even 5.1 AVR with 4K pass through and HDR makes sense in my case?

I am looking at the Onkyo TX-NR676E or 575E here on offer but wouldn’t know at all with which speakers to pair.

Your comments would be highly appreciated, thanks.

Cheers,

Antonius
Title: Re: Noob questions wrt upgrade from sound projector to 5.1.2/7.2
Post by: JoziNic on May 29, 2019, 04:23:46 PM
welcome to the forums! lots of people on here with heaps of knowledge & a great community.

to answer your most direct question, would you benefit from upgrading to 5.1 / 5.1.2 / 7.1 over the sound projector, the short answer is most definitely yes.

the long answer is the tricky bit,

If it were me, I would consider a decent set of bookshelves (many great brands out there depends on your budget, but I can most certainly vouch for a set of Bentley Acosutics FR100's) your bookshelves could sit on a set of stands that could be custom made so they sit just below where your screen starts (or you could slightly raise your screen if possible or have it not extend as far down as I see a large part of your black frame top showing) I would then add a centre to that (again I can vouch for the Bentley acoustics FC150 currently servicing my HT, but there is a smaller one which I haven't heard myself but have heard good things & yet again lots of decent brands that you can consider with a set of bookshelves all at varying price & budget points.

You could add to rear (side surrounds actually based on where your couch is against the wall & you would get the effect of rear/side surrounds) & due to your couch position I would instead go with height to add more (these could go either in ceiling or on ceiling depending on whether your ceiling is slab or board & you want to put holes in it or not). & use your sub in that system.
if not going bookshelf speaker, I would also consider in wall / on wall & in ceiling. you will absolutely get the effect of rear/side/surrounds/ceiling much more than just sound projected
I have heard a 7.1 system in which the rear 2 & height 2 were almost at or around the sitting position that sounded excellent.
I don't think I could do with anything less then 5.1 in my Home theatre/gaming/movie lounge

On another note the Onkyo's are notoriously bad at having HDMI issues (if you look through posts here you will see members who have sworn to never again go Onkyo, despite those supposed HDMI problems being a thing of the past) I myself considered an Onkyo when I upgraded & rather decided to not take the risk & went with Marantz. the stable of Denon, Marantz, & other proven brands like Yamaha, Integra are more 'stable' considerations IMO, BUT one mans Marantz is anothers Onkyo & Vice versa (but i stopped taking risks on brands after owning a ford for 5 years)

 think with a room this size you could create an awesome little Home Theatre that will be a substantial improvement over your sound bar...sorry sound projector

Hope that helps!

Title: Re: Noob questions wrt upgrade from sound projector to 5.1.2/7.2
Post by: Drifter on May 29, 2019, 06:07:53 PM
Your question regarding getting better sound from a dedicated receiver and speakers versus the soundbar, the answer is an unquestionable definitely.

From the looks of the pictures you have posted it appears as if your most pressing issue is that the screen is not in the centre of the front wall. It appears as if it is to the right making room for the door on its left.
You will need to fix this, either by inverting the hinges and having the door open outward or by some or other sliding or concertina door. Since you have a pull down screen it should not matter that it covers part of the door when down.
If the screen is centred there is more than enough room for speakers either side of it. I have a dedicated 7.2.4 setup in a 3 x 4m room.

You can easily do 5.1.2. The surround speakers are mounted on the side walls either side of the couch. If you get bi/dipoles for surrounds it will scatter the sound and you will get a fuller surround sound and it will not sound if the surround effects are only coming from the sides.
Atmos speakers go in-ceiling. If you get an AVR with room correction such as Audyssey it will set up the speaker volume and delays to eliminate the effect of the sloping ceiling (and thus the fact that one Atmos speaker will be lower than the other). The Atmos speakers also should be no further apart than the arm rests of you couch, so the height difference will not be the 40cm's you have at the extreme opposite sides of the ceiling.

Your couch is too close to the rear wall for 7.1. 5.1.2 will give you much better results.

I won't comment on the brand of receiver to get as each person thinks that the brand that he/she owns is the best. All I will say is make sure it has Audyssey  :giggle:
Title: Re: Noob questions wrt upgrade from sound projector to 5.1.2/7.2
Post by: Drifter on May 29, 2019, 06:41:49 PM
The other alternative to centering the screen and taking that door out of the equation, is to swing the room around.
Couch therefore goes where the screen is now.
Screen goes in the middle of the wall where the couch is now.
Surrounds go on the side wall next to couch.
Title: Re: Noob questions wrt upgrade from sound projector to 5.1.2/7.2
Post by: ajscheid on May 29, 2019, 08:13:02 PM
Thanks for the great feed back!
A lot of food for thoughts.

The other alternative to centering the screen and taking that door out of the equation, is to swing the room around.
Couch therefore goes where the screen is now.
Screen goes in the middle of the wall where the couch is now.
Surrounds go on the side wall next to couch.

But that would end up in sitting not centred to the screen unless I push the sofa in front of the door hence having to change hinges again.........

Your question regarding getting better sound from a dedicated receiver and speakers versus the soundbar, the answer is an unquestionable definitely.

From the looks of the pictures you have posted it appears as if your most pressing issue is that the screen is not in the centre of the front wall. It appears as if it is to the right making room for the door on its left.
You will need to fix this, either by inverting the hinges and having the door open outward or by some or other sliding or concertina door. Since you have a pull down screen it should not matter that it covers part of the door when down.
If the screen is centred there is more than enough room for speakers either side of it. I have a dedicated 7.2.4 setup in a 3 x 4m room.

You can easily do 5.1.2. The surround speakers are mounted on the side walls either side of the couch. If you get bi/dipoles for surrounds it will scatter the sound and you will get a fuller surround sound and it will not sound if the surround effects are only coming from the sides.
Atmos speakers go in-ceiling. If you get an AVR with room correction such as Audyssey it will set up the speaker volume and delays to eliminate the effect of the sloping ceiling (and thus the fact that one Atmos speaker will be lower than the other). The Atmos speakers also should be no further apart than the arm rests of you couch, so the height difference will not be the 40cm's you have at the extreme opposite sides of the ceiling.

Your couch is too close to the rear wall for 7.1. 5.1.2 will give you much better results.

I won't comment on the brand of receiver to get as each person thinks that the brand that he/she owns is the best. All I will say is make sure it has Audyssey  :giggle:

I will take my tape measure and measure up this possibility. I know the layout is sub-optimal as is. I was thinking of speaker stands for the surround speaker, at least on the one side to compensate the different distances to the side walls.
Interesting with Audyssey; need to read that up.... :angel:

Any comments on the Polk T-Series speakers? I know, that's a long shot but I don't have the time and financial background to buy different sets of speakers just to realise that smaller is better and vice versa.
I think I will do a 5.1 system with the possibility to extend to 5.1.2 using my existing sub.
Yeeeeeez, just tooooo many options here...... :nfi:
Title: Re: Noob questions wrt upgrade from sound projector to 5.1.2/7.2
Post by: ajscheid on June 15, 2019, 06:40:35 PM
Just a small heads up on the progress of my TV room; I decided against shifting the screen in front of the door and changing hinges as the speaker would be then in front of the doorway.

I also decided against mounting the screen centric on the opposite wall side as then the sofa would be not centered to the screen or in front of the door including rear speaker.

So what did I do?
I bought these speakers off the forum
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190615/f205d9d216c342e8215ea3b6e1df3247.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190615/c19d7e1acc2bb30ed04239398bd6210c.jpg)
And added an Onkyo TX-NR575E off Takealot.

I wall mounted the surround speakers next to the sofa:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190615/0c34282b8b2159493bd68481d95de59d.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190615/7810640fdce884621a461bb1b6752cf5.jpg)
Fits very nicely.

Today I decided to get productive and built a entertainment unit:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190615/72b79628511bb2dc3f076f9ae49deec9.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190615/6b2830c8aa48e027391e10169a2af9f5.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190615/b948d3d22c46036331a3f5635b608fec.jpg)
Before:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190615/754daf4685c3ddf074d85c4ab707e359.jpg)

After:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190615/e8447f36c0115e0b513959db00d39b5a.jpg)
That has to be still painted

The front speaker will be also wall mounted because the base plates are to big causing the right speaker to end up in front of the screen.

Unfortunately are the wall mounts delayed.

Next will be cable management......

All in all I am quite happy for an afternoon of work.
Title: Re: Noob questions wrt upgrade from sound projector to 5.1.2/7.2
Post by: dieOrg on June 15, 2019, 07:48:28 PM
Very nice cabinet!

What colour paint do you have in mind?  I've had some very nice effects with oak stain on pine wood before.

Sent from my SM-A530F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Noob questions wrt upgrade from sound projector to 5.1.2/7.2
Post by: ajscheid on June 15, 2019, 07:52:35 PM
Thanks.
Wife just said that she would like to have it stained warm grey/anthrazit......?
Wall will be painted in a grey tone to darken the room a bit and increase contrast on screen. so that could blend in nicely with the inside of the cabinet staying as is....... really don’t know yet....
Title: Re: Noob questions wrt upgrade from sound projector to 5.1.2/7.2
Post by: ajscheid on June 22, 2019, 10:40:56 AM
Finally I have wall mounted the front speakers so they are neither in front of the screen nor in front of the door. A tight fit but works from all seating positions:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190622/8e0aacebc139724a2012999d9775e35e.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190622/ffd2f1e176fa4e0b3bda13f569f1c1b3.jpg)

Now the “room treatment” has to start