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Audio/Video Hardware => Reel to Reel & Cassette Tapes => Topic started by: King_Julian_S on October 13, 2018, 08:34:05 PM

Title: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: King_Julian_S on October 13, 2018, 08:34:05 PM
Hello masters.

Pls explain why some reels use NAB adaptors and others not..

Are there any benefits either way.

Asking cause I would like to know if itís worthwhile trying to get for my Akai M9.




Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: Agaton Sax on October 13, 2018, 10:32:27 PM
Huh ? Not sue anybody knows why? but there are 2 types of hubs on tape recorders: Trident and NAB. Most consumer and pro machines have trident hubs. Plastic reels in general have trident  holes while most metal reels use NAB holes. Is just the way it is. You can always run a NAB reel on a trident hub with an adapter but not the other way round.

Trident
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2905/33003828863_628e7ec6b7_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Shrfu8)IMG_0183 (https://flic.kr/p/Shrfu8) by jdza (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jdza/), on Flickr
(http://

NAB
[url=https://flic.kr/p/EFmaPJ][img]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1494/25386835812_fb977d1bef_b.jpg)[/url]DSCN5327 (https://flic.kr/p/EFmaPJ) by jdza (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jdza/), on Flickr
Those fancy metal NAB adapters one sees in all Audiophile installations are merely metal extensions on plastic NAB adapters. They were designed to ease tape manipulation  during cut and  stick tape type editing

(https://http2.mlstatic.com/adaptador-nab-hub-tape-gravador-rolo-revox-pioneer-105-D_NQ_NP_449505-MLB25055137777_092016-F.jpg)

If you are really brave you can use the European AEG Bobby type.These disperse with tape flanges altogether.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVtmpvkXIAAUMhM.jpg)


In my tests of Wow and Flutter on machines I have found that these adapters can contribute to W&F,so choose carefully.
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: King_Julian_S on October 14, 2018, 10:13:31 AM
Tx sire..
so I guess itís something to do with wow and flutter etc ... ?

so which solutions have u found that works ok (mine is only an Akai ) and I like it ....I.e. good enough for me ...as is std.. , I was just wondering what happens if I get reels with these huge NAB type requirements.. hence I want to check if I can maybe get my hands on something thatís known to work ok  ...

Currently Iím limited to this (pic off the net)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181014/23ae8b3cc007fadfcdacde1d2e350a36.png)

Or should I not bother too much about that  unnecessarily ?
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: Agaton Sax on October 14, 2018, 11:36:41 AM
Tx sire..
so I guess itís something to do with wow and flutter etc ... ?

so which solutions have u found that works ok (mine is only an Akai ) and I like it ....I.e. good enough for me ...as is std.. , I was just wondering what happens if I get reels with these huge NAB type requirements.. hence I want to check if I can maybe get my hands on something thatís known to work ok  ...

Currently Iím limited to this (pic off the net)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181014/23ae8b3cc007fadfcdacde1d2e350a36.png)

Or should I not bother too much about that  unnecessarily ?

If you want to play metal  10 inch reels ,you'll need the adapters. Revox and Otari both had very nice ones. Ampex and MCI  machines do not have the spring loaded lock that the mentioned adapters need ,so rely on a different adapter. The M9 only accept  7 inch reels. Personally I have never seen a 7 inch NAB reel,so I cannot foresee any application where you'll need a NAB adapter.

NAB reel vs Trident

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1933/43493498660_a515052356_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/29gnxRW)IMG_0008 (https://flic.kr/p/29gnxRW) by jdza (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jdza/), on Flickr

NAB adapters. Front left Revox,Right Otari, Back left and right. Ampex,MCI, Scully

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1976/43493471630_73f02d6e5b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/29gnpPU)IMG_0003 (https://flic.kr/p/29gnpPU) by jdza (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jdza/), on Flickr

Ampex Trident reel spindle
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1929/31434615268_270ea62ddb_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PTLBXj)IMG_0004 (https://flic.kr/p/PTLBXj) by jdza (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jdza/), on Flickr

Studer Trident reel spindle
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1901/44586177224_ca3e490017_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2aVVP8w)IMG_0006 (https://flic.kr/p/2aVVP8w) by jdza (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jdza/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: King_Julian_S on October 14, 2018, 01:48:39 PM
Ok
So 7Ē not really required then.

Tx meneer , appreciate the detail and advise.
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: Baseline on November 07, 2018, 10:14:16 PM
I speak under correction, but shall attempt to provide some clarification regarding NAB hub adaptors. Prior to the 1950s, various manufacturers around the world designed machines and reels of tape to be played on them. Each manufacturer basically did their own thing and as a result, the spindle sizes varied from manufacturer to manufacturer.

By the early 1950s, the reel to reel format was growing in popularity and the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) was formed to standardize the industry. As a result, tape machines for the domestic market were primarily designed with a 1/4 inch spindle over which the reel fit. This spindle was known as a Cine Spindle also later referred to as the Trident Spindle. Reels for the domestic market were 3, 5 and 7 inches in diameter and used 1/4 inch tape.

The professional market / recording studios, primarily used 10.5 inch reels of 1/4 inch tape that fit over a 3 inch in diameter spindle known as a NAB hub and the reels were referred to as NAB reels. In order to facilitate the interchangeable use of tapes and machines, NAB hub adaptors were created. Later, further advancements in the professional arena led to the creation of 1/2 inch, 1 inch and 2 inch wide tapes for the development of multi-track recording, though the central NAB hub remained at 3 inches and the tape reel diameter remained 10.5 inches.

So... in conclusion, the NAB hub adaptor allows for the use of the larger 10.5 inch reels on a domestic machine. By the way... those fancy metal extensions to NAB hubs are known as trumpets.
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: King_Julian_S on November 07, 2018, 10:39:31 PM
Tx Bass
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: Steerpike on November 07, 2018, 11:20:54 PM
European studios persisted in using the cine (CCIR) hubs right into the 1980s.
A serious disadvantage I've found is that you cannot carry the cine-hub reel easily without squeezing it and damaging the tape edges. An NAB reel is much easier to handle without putting pressure on the flanges.

Both TDK and Philips made a metal 7-inch reel with an NAB hub:

(https://i.postimg.cc/DwkGmrYY/nab-7inch.jpg)

This is NOT my machine illustrated above, and it has some serious fault with tape tension - look how the damping arms are pulled right up to their end-stops!
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: marcochezzi on November 11, 2018, 06:38:46 PM
So having brought a pair of black Darklab NAB adapters back home with me from my recent trip to Italy I was left with my original Teak Tascam adapters which while they work perfectly, I never liked them much... Since I find it hard to leave things well alone, modification time came knocking once again, which lead to me purchasing a chunk of aluminium yesterday, and got to work this morning making myself a set...

They are not rotate to clamp anymore, these simply locate the reel onto the spool, so full removal of reel & adapter is needed when changing to a new reel..

I stripped the Teak adapters and used their back end after some machining of the plastic adapter to make things fit on the aluminium horn.

Everything runs true and properly, the brass inlay was not originally intended to be there, but I made a mess of setting up my Mill DRL and landed up making a mess of the same 12 blind holes in the aluminium body, so the simplest solution was to cover the mess & mistake with a piece of brass and redo..

I think they came out not half bad at all......

The horn is just machined and rubbed down with some scotchbrite pad material, I will polish them when I get around to purchasing whatever one needs to polish aluminium...

(https://i.imgur.com/i42rmhw.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/XdGnba8.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/57Ns9hA.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/oGkWPMV.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/aEtQZz3.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/YFx0mha.jpg)
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: marcochezzi on November 11, 2018, 06:42:56 PM
@ King_Julian, apologies on the hijack...., itís a Nab thing.. :thumbs: :dop:
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: Baseline on November 11, 2018, 08:07:07 PM
@marcochezzi, very nice NABs and deck you have there.
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: marcochezzi on November 11, 2018, 09:15:21 PM
@marcochezzi, very nice NABs and deck you have there.

Thank you Sir!
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: King_Julian_S on November 12, 2018, 09:18:26 AM
@ King_Julian, apologies on the hijack...., itís a Nab thing.. :thumbs: :dop:
Lol no problem man ... yeah itís a nab thing ..
At least now I know someone to bother for certain Alu work I have sitting in my imagination ...
assuming you made those yourself ?
Awesome well done
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: marcochezzi on November 12, 2018, 10:58:57 AM
Lol no problem man ... yeah itís a nab thing ..
At least now I know someone to bother for certain Alu work I have sitting in my imagination ...
assuming you made those yourself ?
Awesome well done

Yep, proud to say I made them all myself thank you, was given the day off from SWAMBO yesterday so I had some free time in the garage and turned them up, great way to waste a perfectly good Sunday in my humble opinion..!! :clap:
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: Steerpike on November 12, 2018, 12:16:59 PM
Interesting!
The Teac hub adapters were very, very cheap compared to the Studers back in the 1980s.... if I recall right Teacs were about R35 per pair, the Studers over R150.

All hub adapter benefit from a squirt of Teflon spray into the interior.
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: marcochezzi on November 12, 2018, 01:15:54 PM
Truth be said I would not even have used the Teak adaptor section had I been a little less daft and bought 90mm diameter aluminium stock instead of 82mm...  :walled:

That way I would have machined the entire part including the central spool keyhole out of solid aluminium, and I would then have used pressed in stainless steel pins as the 3 locating lugs for the reel itself, but since I had already bought the damn stuff, I might as well make use of the teak part in its very limited involvement..

Still, I'll make some more at a later date, I have some fresh ideas spinning up in my head..
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: marcochezzi on November 18, 2019, 09:14:04 AM
Reviving this old thread, finally got to purchase myself a Revox B77, cannot wait to get her up and running, she needs some TLC but with patience and grit I believe she will relive to sing another song..

Spent some time at the lathe yesterday and turned up a pair of aluminium horns / spools / handles for the original Revox NAB Adapters, came out perfectly fine, only problem is one of the two runs wobbly because of the plastic NAB adapter itself, seems the outer locking ring on the adapter is a little out of parallel to the base piece.. :Ooooooh:

I want to see if the unit can be pulled apart and reset, probably just a bit of grit or off-cut that got into the adapter when she was produced all those years ago causing the issue.. i absolutely do not want to damage the adapter, so if she cannot be corrected, then I will compensate by re-machining the horn base very slightly out of true to compensate, but true she will eventually run..

The black one in the background is what I used as dimension reference as I believe (assume) they are within tolerance of the Revox / Studer units..

(https://i.imgur.com/zDxOVUX.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/P8SVQ9y.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/qllIIOq.jpg)
 
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: Steerpike on November 18, 2019, 03:13:36 PM
...

I want to see if the unit can be pulled apart and reset, probably just a bit of grit or off-cut that got into the adapter when she was produced all those years ago causing the issue.. i absolutely do not want to damage the adapter, so if she cannot be corrected, then I will compensate by re-machining the horn base very slightly out of true to compensate, but true she will eventually run..

They were made by BA&SF, and not created with the intention of taking them apart. I've never seen an opened one that was not completely broken in the process (I never tried to open one).
But you can wash them without opening, and introduce Teflon spray after drying, which restores excellent smoothness.
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: marcochezzi on November 18, 2019, 03:17:28 PM
They were made by BA&SF, and not created with the intention of taking them apart. I've never seen an opened one that was not completely broken in the process (I never tried to open one).
But you can wash them without opening, and introduce Teflon spray after drying, which restores excellent smoothness.

Thank you Steerpike, I will take a close look at the unit and give it a good clean, just maybe something resolves itself.. otherwise its back to the lathe for corrective corrections, certainly do not want to damage the only two units I own... :thumbs: :thumbs:
Title: Re: Nab adaptors pls explain
Post by: jadedgem on January 02, 2020, 12:14:56 PM
I 3d printed my own NAB adapters'

(https://i.postimg.cc/sfKfj081/IMG-20200102-120714.jpg)

I also printed trumpets. I just need to print the other parts with the clip and adapter part now and then just sand and finnish them in metallic.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Qxt8HJGm/IMG-20200102-120848.jpg)