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Audio/Video Hardware => Valves/Tubes => Topic started by: Cuco on August 16, 2017, 11:43:45 AM

Title: WE300B tubes
Post by: Cuco on August 16, 2017, 11:43:45 AM
Hi All,

I'm contemplating to purchase a pair of Pswane WE300B (apparently the exact replica of the original Western Electric 300B tube) for my Audionote Kit, SET, 8wpc power amp. The 300B tubes will be half of the price of the amp... :thinking: Has anybody tested the Pswane WE300B?

Cheers 
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: El Sid on August 16, 2017, 01:58:12 PM
Does Pswane have an office in Tswane?
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Cuco on August 16, 2017, 06:37:11 PM
Nope Pswane is in Gauteng.
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: 2wice on August 16, 2017, 07:16:55 PM
Swoosh
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: fdlsys on August 16, 2017, 08:07:39 PM
 :giggle:
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Kent Kassler on August 16, 2017, 09:53:19 PM
Save your money!The only reason I don't own or run a 300b amp is because I could never afford "the real deal".....I refuse to believe that any new production tube is even in the ballpark of the old.....and the price does not justify the product in my opinion.
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Cuco on August 18, 2017, 12:13:31 PM
Save your money!The only reason I don't own or run a 300b amp is because I could never afford "the real deal".....I refuse to believe that any new production tube is even in the ballpark of the old.....and the price does not justify the product in my opinion.

Thanks for your advice. I guess there are not too many guys with 300B amps in the forum.
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Nidri on August 19, 2017, 07:11:32 PM
Yes not a lot of folks with 300B amps I imagine.

And $750 for a pair of valves feels a little steep.

http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/psvane-we300b-11-replica/

Would one of the cheaper options from Grant Fidelity like the Shuguang Treasures not be worth considering?

http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/purchase/shop-by-tube-model/300b/

Are the Sophia Electric tubes perhaps worth considering?

http://www.sophiaelectric.com

Or you could use the kids' college fund and get some Takatsukis.  ;)

https://www.takatsuki-denki.co.jp/en/products/ta-300b
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/audio-s/item/ta300b/
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2012/10/04/takatsuki-ta-300b-and-border-patrol-s10-exd/
https://www.dagogo.com/takatsuki-ta-300b-vacuum-tube-review

If it were my money I'd try the cheap Shuguang WE clones and perhaps the Gold Lions.
But then I'm a cheapskate.

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/300B-Tube-Types/Shuguang-300B-98
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/300B-Tube-Types/Genalex-Gold-Lion-PX-300B
http://wallofsound.ca/audioreviews/triode-roundup-seven-common-man-300b-tubes-compared/
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Francois on August 19, 2017, 07:25:12 PM
the Psvane 1:1 replica is very very good. There are some reviews that put them between the 1957 WE and the later 79's and 90's versions.


I will be able to give you an idea in next 3 weeks or so. Original R40k 57 WE's vs Psvane 300b's and the 1:1 replica's


If the consensus of the "panel" is that they approach the WE I'm ordering my set.
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Kent Kassler on August 19, 2017, 08:10:55 PM
Just to clarify my comment....it's less about sound than it is reliability.The number of tube failures due to poorer construction can be read all over the show.A genuine Western Electric 300b had a predicted lifespan of 40 000hrs.....no tube being made currently can enter that arena and many out of the box failures do occur.....lifespan is of some importance I reckon when spending big money. (To me it's big money but of course not necessarily to others.)
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Francois on August 19, 2017, 11:12:53 PM
I totally agree. That 40k hours is something to behold. Amazing. I can only hope the 1:1 copy give 50% of that. But the world will quickly let it rip if they start packing up in few hundred hours.  :ticked:


Just hoping another company might try the same trick and build a replica...
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Cuco on August 21, 2017, 09:31:18 AM
I did look at the Shuguang Treasures, the Shuguang WE clone, read the reviews etc. The reason I'm interested in the WE is because of its high praise by everybody in the international forums. I just want to know how much better my SET amp can sound? If I get the Shuguang Treasures, I will wonder about the WE. So, that's why the WE clone. An end game 300B tube since I cant afford or wont pay the money for the originals.

I haven't really seen anybody commenting on reliability. Everybody talks about the sound difference in the various forums. Reliability is obviously a big factor. If the original lasts 3-4 times longer than the clones it may be worth investing in it. However, 40k hours is 4.5 years of continuous listening. I listen say max 4 hours a day, that is 1460 hours a year. So, a 40k hour tube would last me 27 years. I'm 50 and honestly don't want a tube outlive me  :). I' be happy more than happy with 10k hours. Obviously, WE clone tube failing in a few weeks is another story  :( .   
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Agaton Sax on August 21, 2017, 12:21:21 PM
In my 300B days I never bothered about fancy tubes. I do have extensive experience with an older DHT, the 45.

I once had a collection of 50 pairs of 45s here. All the names, Marconi ,Raytheon,Cunningham, RCA etc ,etc.Even those very old globe shape ones(forget the name). One thing they all had in common was that after about a week of use they would start spluttering. I hate that paper crumbling, farting sound.

I changed to new Emission Labs  tubes.. They would splutter for a week or so and then become dead quiet. I pulled the first pair after 8 years of 16 hours a day use and they were as good as new. The solid plate ones were significantly better sounding than any of the old tubes ,with the current mesh plates even better.

Don't know if that can be transposed to 300Bs but I would think very carefully before spending fortunes on a 60 year old tube.
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Ricketysmurf on August 22, 2017, 10:30:06 PM
Hi All,

I'm contemplating to purchase a pair of Pswane WE300B (apparently the exact replica of the original Western Electric 300B tube) for my Audionote Kit, SET, 8wpc power amp. The 300B tubes will be half of the price of the amp... :thinking: Has anybody tested the Pswane WE300B?

Cheers

I have exactly as described above. A friend brought around a set of Psvane WE's, the difference was immediate and I had no choice but to order a pair, extremely happy. I was fortunate that there was a special at the time for $650 including shipping. Highly recommended, welcome to come and listen.
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Cuco on August 25, 2017, 11:19:57 AM
I have exactly as described above. A friend brought around a set of Psvane WE's, the difference was immediate and I had no choice but to order a pair, extremely happy. I was fortunate that there was a special at the time for $650 including shipping. Highly recommended, welcome to come and listen.

Well, we did listen to the Psvane 300B WE replica's on my amp at Ricketysmurf's place (Thanks again) and compared it to the Electro Harmonix 300B. As soon as we switched on the music we could hear that the WE replica's are on another level. More detail, better highs, better imaging, punchier bass and most importantly the sound stage was a lot wider. For me this is a no-brainer. I already ordered a pair. The difference in sound quality for the amount of money makes it a bargain in my opinion.
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: fdlsys on August 25, 2017, 11:25:58 AM
More detail, better highs, better imaging, punchier bass and most importantly the sound stage was a lot wider.
Everything you are describing could be attributed to the amp characteristics and also careful matching of the tubes. My 0.02
Of course, good luck with your order, I really hope it proves worth it.
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Cuco on August 25, 2017, 11:33:25 AM
Everything you are describing could be attributed to the amp characteristics and also careful matching of the tubes. My 0.02
Of course, good luck with your order, I really hope it proves worth it.

Thanks, we tested on the same amp (Audionote 300B KIT) by changing the tubes. 
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Cuco on September 16, 2017, 08:42:09 AM
Advise needed please.

I ordered a pair of Psvane GE 300B tubes from Grant Fidelity. The item is sitting at SA customs for a while now. They have decided to audit this item. They need me to complete some documents for the NRCS (National Regulator for Compulsory Specifications).  :walled: I said that I don't want to deal with proving anything to anybody and that they must send it back to Canada. It seems that once customs gets hold of it DHL can't take it back. This can take months I assume....

Any advise would be appreciated....
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: fredeb on September 17, 2017, 08:15:34 AM
All I normally do , is go to Customs with a receipt to prove how much I paid for an item . This is a step beyond whatever is normally necessary . I prefer not getting anything through DHL , Fedex or UPS .
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Cuco on September 17, 2017, 02:58:44 PM
All I normally do , is go to Customs with a receipt to prove how much I paid for an item . This is a step beyond whatever is normally necessary . I prefer not getting anything through DHL , Fedex or UPS .

Thank you!
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Moog on September 18, 2017, 02:50:00 PM
I have not yet listened to the WE 300 B. What I can say is that my set integrated amp came with Shuguang 98 300Bs. When one of them was broken, I replaced them with Electro Harmonic Gold 300B and noticed that the sound quality had gone down. The manufacturer recommends TJ 300B Mesh Plate for best sound quality with this amp.
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Cuco on October 12, 2017, 12:45:27 PM
Hi All,

I just want to give an update to the people who have responded to my post.

As mentioned in general discussions, I have recieved the two pair of tubes. A pair of Shuguang Treasure 6sn7's and a pair of Psvane WE300B replicas.

My system consists of a Lampi 4 DAC, Ming Da MC300 pre, Audionote 300B Kit power amp, Unison Research Max 1 speakers. The test was done without any alcohol or smokeable foreign substances.

I replaced the standard 6sn7's on the MD pre with the Treasure 6sn7 first to hear the difference. Imaging and detail became much better. My wife and I started hearing things that were not there before.

I then replaced the Electro Harmonix 300B's with the WE300B's on the power amp. The change was less dramatic in comparison to the 6sn7's initially. After a few hours of listening, it seemed that the sound stage grew somewhat, the highs sounded more detailed and the overall sound was "crisper". It didn't have the boomy bass that the Electro Harmonix 300B provided, which I don't prefer.

Spending R10k on tubes improved the system amazingly. I guess it is the harmony between the various units that makes the difference.

Cheers.


 







   
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: fredeb on October 12, 2017, 12:52:43 PM
Good to hear the R10k you spent was worth it . I need a Quad of 300B's and was wondering whether the Shuang " Hifi " tubes would cut it . Where did you purchase yours from ?
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Cuco on October 12, 2017, 01:02:45 PM
Good to hear the R10k you spent was worth it . I need a Quad of 300B's and was wondering whether the Shuang " Hifi " tubes would cut it . Where did you purchase yours from ?

Judging by the Shuguang treasure 6sn7's, I'd think that the Treasure 300B's would be very good. It is highly rated in all forums. My second choice would have been the Treasures. I bought it from Grant Fidelity, they operate in Hong Kong but ship 300B's from Canada. Customer service is incredible, seriously..., highly recommended
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Cuco on October 12, 2017, 10:12:05 PM
(https://s1.postimg.org/9h49rq3i1b/IMG-3677.jpg)

Picture of the WE300B glowing blue. Apparently it's normal. The glow seems to be caused by the electrons striking the plate, volatilizing the surface and dislodging atoms of nickel.... Well it looks very nice.
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: fredeb on October 13, 2017, 03:35:37 AM
It certainly does look good - good pic too .

Apparently it's normal. The glow seems to be caused by the electrons striking the plate, volatilizing the surface and dislodging atoms of nickel .



Or this ? : Cherenkov radiation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation)
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Cuco on October 13, 2017, 09:29:39 AM
It certainly does look good - good pic too .
 


Or this ? : Cherenkov radiation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation)

Interesting, thanks, never heard of it before. It says that the speed of light in vacuum is c, but the light speed in water is 0.75c. So any electrons accelerated beyond 0.75c like in nuclear reactions may glow blue....






Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Jazzy on October 13, 2017, 09:11:14 PM
For 15 years I have played with 4 different 300Bs in my amp and the Western Electrics are miles ahead of everything else. In fact to be honest, I don't take any other 300B variant seriously I.e. if I start reading a review of a 300B component I loose interest as soon as I realise that they installed EH or similar valves. I could go on and tell you the differences here but a phone call would be more appropriate. It's at a level where if I damaged mine and couldn't afford to replace them then i am certain that I would be devastated for life from knowing how far backwards my system has gone.
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: fredeb on October 13, 2017, 09:54:08 PM
Sounds VERY good Jazzy !

Anybody else out there got any opinion on other Shuguang or Psvane 300B tubes further down the wrung ?
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Francois on October 15, 2017, 07:24:31 AM
I totally agree with Jazzy there. I could never afford a genuine pair of 1950's WE valves.


I was very optimistic about these clones for they did a lot of work to clone the WE faithfully (down to metallurgy).  Ender, talk to Vusi, I was planning to get you both together for a 300B comparison anyway. He has possibly THE best SE amp in SA.


Ill order my set as soon as I have the funds (major luxury here)  :notworthy:
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Cuco on October 15, 2017, 10:03:10 AM
I totally agree with Jazzy there. I could never afford a genuine pair of 1950's WE valves.


I was very optimistic about these clones for they did a lot of work to clone the WE faithfully (down to metallurgy).  Ender, talk to Vusi, I was planning to get you both together for a 300B comparison anyway. He has possibly THE best SE amp in SA.


Ill order my set as soon as I have the funds (major luxury here)  :notworthy:

Hi Francois, I did talk to him. We’re going to compare the real thing to the replica. My WE300B has gone backwards since its glorious first 8-10 hours. Some say it needs minimum 200 hours to sound at its full potential. We'll see....
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Ricketysmurf on October 15, 2017, 06:28:26 PM
Hi Francois, I did talk to him. We’re going to compare the real thing to the replica. My WE300B has gone backwards since its glorious first 8-10 hours. Some say it needs minimum 200 hours to sound at its full potential. We'll see....

Cuco, mine puffed and wheezed for a while when I first started them up,I accepted this was something that I would just need to deal with.
However they continue to improve and have settled down and become noise free, that also seem to have gone through a barrier of some sort where everything has fallen into place. Given that a pair of the real thing is out of my reach, I would still recommend the Psvane to anyone..
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Kent Kassler on October 16, 2017, 08:00:10 AM
the Psvane 1:1 replica is very very good. There are some reviews that put them between the 1957 WE and the later 79's and 90's versions.


I will be able to give you an idea in next 3 weeks or so. Original R40k 57 WE's vs Psvane 300b's and the 1:1 replica's


If the consensus of the "panel" is that they approach the WE I'm ordering my set.

Any news on this François? .....I'd be keen to know the outcome of your comparison ?
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Cuco on October 20, 2017, 03:11:33 PM
We compared the Psvane WE300B to Jazzy's original WE300B's at Jazzy's place.

Jazzy is fully Vinyl, has arguably the best SET amp (according Francois). The sound that his system produces is very natural and musical. I kept telling myself NO NO NO don't get into Vinyl while listening. It's probably one of the best systems I've heard. Louis Armstrong, St. james Infirmary sounded monumental, like an occasion, fully engaging.

To the WE300B's. The WE300B's sound like they are not there (this is Jazzy's comment to which I agree), the music is not edgy, no harshness, no biting highs, it just flows. Fully engaging sound. The Psvane WE300B's sounded similar, a lttle more highs, a bit harsher. Howeever they had only about 40 hours on the clock, so were not run it yet. The difference betwen the tubes were not significant in my opnion. However, in order for me to compare it better I'd need to listen to both tubes in my system. Therefore, Jazzy's comments would be more valuable.
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Jazzy on December 10, 2017, 08:48:47 PM
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2017/12/legendary-western-electric-300-b-tube.html?m=1#more
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Ricketysmurf on December 11, 2017, 10:04:22 PM
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2017/12/legendary-western-electric-300-b-tube.html?m=1#more

Jazzy
I contacted the UK dealer purely out of interest a couple of weeks ago, apparently the valves never appeared for some reason. Pity.

A
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Ricketysmurf on December 12, 2017, 01:12:07 PM
Jazzy
I contacted the UK dealer purely out of interest a couple of weeks ago, apparently the valves never appeared for some reason. Pity.

A

Let’s hope what’s updated on the website about 2018 becomes an affordable reality.
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Jazzy on January 19, 2018, 10:29:46 PM
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2018/01/western-electric-we-300b-electron-tube.html?m=1#more
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Ricketysmurf on January 20, 2018, 05:38:44 PM
Thanks for the heads up Jazzy. Look forward to the availability.

A
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Cuco on January 23, 2018, 09:26:25 AM
Thanks Jazzy, good price too. I was going to order another pair of Psvane WE300B but it is worth waiting for this.
Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Nidri on January 01, 2019, 06:08:12 PM
So they say they are finally getting close now.
US Pre-orders opening 11 Jan.
Singles $700. Matched pairs $1500.
About the same as a pair of Takatsuki's.
(https://www.partsconnexion.com/TSUKI-81942.html)

http://www.westernelectric.com/products/300b.html

Let's see.




Title: Re: WE300B tubes
Post by: Nidri on November 20, 2019, 07:39:43 PM
This time they're really almost maybe kind of ready with those WE300B's:

(https://mailchi.mp/westernelectric/batch-process-montage)

Video evidence:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA8G5zRjriI&feature=emb_logo)