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General Discussion / Re:
« Last post by Phase on Today at 12:19:58 AM »

Tonight listening to music and enjoying a red, I'll leave being told how to listen to music for during the week, immediately my backs up. Amirm I enjoy your work, don't cross the line!
Digital / Re: Denafrips Pontus II
« Last post by sajunky on Today at 12:00:50 AM »
The 1865 is perfectly fine. It's the very old Cirrus receiver that I'm not a fan of.
A kit seems is upgraded to a newer CS8414. It would be interesting to compare against my R2R-11. :)

Seriously, it is a minimalistic design, no reclocking, S/PDIF input would benefit from. On the other side there is no a vintage type of a digital filter/oversampling, so is my comment about R2R-11. It would be nice if it had USB and I2S, it is the best case scenario for a direct ladder clocking.

A good choice for a specific purpose, when cost is not an option.
General Discussion / Re:
« Last post by amirm on May 08, 2021, 10:46:18 PM »
Amir has gotten better at measurement over time, but he had to get help (ie get schooled) before he improved.
Come again?  Schooled by whom? 

There is some question as to pressures (commercial) that he may bow to, and of course the objectivist twatwaffle which may or may not relate to what you find pleasing to listen to.
There better be no question whatsoever as I have zero, zero commercial connection with any entity.  You seem to want to believe random rumors and talking points from people who don't like the measurements they see which oppose their held views.  Maybe you would have low ethics if you were doing what I do to believe that assumption.  But I am not situated like you.  I am fortunate enough to be able to do what I do without the need for compensation.  My reputation and ethics have incredible value to me.  Please don't play games with it.

All in all I would take any measurement as one instance, with all the risk involved. Correlate with others, and triangulate with your listening preferences.
The "risk" is demonstrated in your post, not my measurements.  Clearly false information are put forward with no evidence to advance an agenda independent of how a product is performing.  Don't listen to rumor and gossip.  These are object whose design competence can be assessed and are not subject to vagaries of "listener preference."  Heaven knows more sins are committed in the name of listener preference than anything else in audio.  Suggest watching this video I did on proper way and skills to do listening tests:

Notice how there are no ads in that video.  The goal is purely to educate.  If you don't want to get educated, that is fine.  Just don't throw rocks at people who do.

General Discussion / Re:
« Last post by amirm on May 08, 2021, 10:37:54 PM »
The more objective measures with research into perceptual correlation do put pressure on manufacturers to have cleaner developed loudspeakers which filters down to even entry level products to the benefit of all. With audiophillia encompasing a large element of cognitive dissonance and consumers with any manner of motives and desires, measurements can only be one yard-stick.
My speaker measurements use state of the art Klippel NFS system ($100,000) that performs measurements based on decades of research into what makes a speaker sound good.  Peer reviewed paper after paper, and countless controlled listening tests show its efficacy and prediction of how listeners view the sound of a speaker.  They are not trivial measurements as you stipulated.  Take one look at the measurements and you see what I am talking about:

Despite that, I listen to every transducer and confirm measurements by developing EQ to correct what they show.  Either the impairment is real or not.  If it is real, EQ will show it.  Otherwise, I note that in my review.

Ultimately we can't boil audio into one simple yes or no answer.  But we can be miles, miles ahead of where people are just going by what some random dude says online, company marketing material, subjectivist reviewer, youtuber, etc.  None of that is reliable information.  You wouldn't get medical advice that way.  I don't know why you would want to do that with audio.

If text is hard to follow, here is one of my videos on speaker measurements in general, and Genelec speaker in the specific:
Oldie but a goodie... Blackhawk Down.
General Discussion / Re:
« Last post by amirm on May 08, 2021, 10:30:03 PM »
What I find is interesting the certainty that the measurement cult in audio speaks with.

My understanding of science and scientist are that they always stay inquisitive and openminded, work with hypothesis, careful to generalise outside the limitation of a given empirical study. Even more so when dealing with complexity and complex adaptive systems.
Your understanding of what I do when reviewing products is completely wrong.  I am not performing "science" when measuring an audio product.  I am simply measuring common engineering aspects of the product such as noise, distortion, jitter, etc.  Companies used to provide such measurements back in 1970s and 1980s but these days, it is all forgotten and consumers are left believing nonsense marketing material that this and that sounds good.  Instead of having reliable information to decide what is a well engineered or not, you have stories from companies with no way whatsoever for you to verify if any of it is correct.

Heck, click on "specs" portion of a product and many times all you see are the product dimensions!  How far we have fallen from the golden days of audio where engineering mattered.

Now we have upstanding members like you cherishing knowing less about a product, i.e. no measurements!  Folks who appreciate knowing how well a product is engineered are called a "cult" and some random notion of "science" is brought up.  Exactly what do you know about audio science?  How many research papers have you read there?  Do you have a subscription AES, ASA, IEEE Spectrum, etc.?  Or are you just quoting talking points from a true cult that thinks any random idea in audio works and there is no need to validate it properly?

It is Friday however and my system sound so much better when I am relaxed, but of course, that is not a valid field of inquiry through the lens of the measurement cult.
This is the only valid thing in your post.  Your perception of audio is 100% elastic.  Focus on the music and all of a sudden you hear more detail, more air, more nuance, etc. Lean back and enjoy the music and the brain throws out all of that.  People who don't understand this simple aspect of our perception think when they try this and that useless change in audio chain works because the perception changed.

There are decades of research in audio science behind the position we take in ASR.  Don't belittle it at your own expense.
General Discussion / Re:
« Last post by amirm on May 08, 2021, 10:22:18 PM »
Evening gentleman

Would some of the more technical inclined individuals have a look at his measurements (reviews) and please tell me that he is wrong or misinterpreting, or just being full of it? For instance NADT758 or Anthem MRX520 measurements.

It would be much appreciated

Thank you
Don't know if you expected to hear from me directly but here it is. :)

I currently have two of Anthem's high-end processors they sent me for testing, the AVM60 and AVM70.  The relationship with them is quite cordial and respectful.  So that should tell you something.

In general, I use a much higher standard to judge AV products: seeing how they compare to dedicated stereo products.  This has never been done before but that is the decision many people face: using an AV product to play stereo music as well as movies and such.  Because no one in the industry has put AV products under such a magnifying glass, I am finding a lot of performance issues that degrade the final judgement of the products.  The industry is waking up and starting to respond so I suspect future generations to be better than they are now.

Also, keep in mind that my focus is strictly objective performance.  You should use that as one factor in your decision making.  Reliability (lack of bugs), and performance of Room EQ should be just as important in your decision making criteria if not more.  Anthem's ARC works well in this regard.  As far as bugs, I don't know and you need to research that yourself.  If I find such issues in my testing, I point them out.

General Discussion / JBL 4722 - Does anyone here own them?
« Last post by Avian on May 08, 2021, 09:28:18 PM »
Hi all, I think this is my 1st post, I've been reading and watching classifieds here, but never got active on the forum. I also have some items to advertise, but need 50 posts, so I'll get started. (I do have a iTrader rating on Carbonite, but the items are more suited to this forum)

My current gear should be in my signature, it's in a dedicated cinema room with acoustic panels, set up with REW, managed to get a satisfactory house curve that sounds very pleasant to my ears... but upgraditis is a problem...

The midbass impact and "scale" of sound that a speaker like the 4722 can give, because of sensitivity and compression driver, plus sheer size, is something I cannot find / afford in the consumer audio space. There are other pro audio options, but they're either not in SA or out of my price range.

I did a lot of research and I've decided to get 3x 4722's for LCR behind an AT screen. On AVForums UK there are lots of info on them, I believe I won't be disappointed and that they won't be too big for my room.

Wild and Marr can bring them in, but they're expensive (to me), especially compared to many years ago (I searched the forum). E-Piphany in Cape Town are also registered with Wild and Marr.

I was wondering if anyone had 4722's? If not, perhaps DIY compression driver speakers, or a different brand? And your thoughts on them compared to consumer audio gear of similar price range, for 95% cinema use / 5% music.

I hope to become a more active member, though I don't get a lot of time for forums etc.

I still don't know what the movie is about. Maybe if i watch it again but i think the result will be the same clueless.

It has confused the whole world that movie
DIY Resources / Re: ScanSpeak Drivers
« Last post by seanjammy on May 08, 2021, 09:09:25 PM »
TLHP is incredible.

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