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Audio/Video Hardware => Acoustics and Room treatment => Topic started by: B_Unit on October 12, 2017, 09:39:35 PM

Title: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: B_Unit on October 12, 2017, 09:39:35 PM
Hello All,

I just moved into a new apartment and one issue is that the two bedrooms have a large door between them. And this is obviously not comfortable. specifically if my roommate or I brings a brings a girl home.

So some sound proofing needs to be done. The constraint is that I cannot glue/drill the door or walls. So My idea is to make a frame out of cheap wood and then use a collection of foam and other materials to insulate the two rooms.

The dimensions of the door are 128cm x 220cm. The outer frame is quite deep so Whatever I make can be thick.

To begin with I am thinking of finding a large piece of cheap Matters Foam with a Dimension of 130cm X 222cm (slightly larger than the frame) and then I will push it into the frame creating some sort of sound proofing. Once this is done Ill get some triangular sound proofing foam with some wooden frame and apply that infront of the other foam.

I have also read that using some sort of dense material will stop a lot of noise. So maybe i can create a frame and fill it with some material ?

I would love some suggestions.

Byron

Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: vleisman on October 12, 2017, 09:43:53 PM
I'm not touching this thread until I sober up.  Would love to see what Kent has to say though. ..  :giggle:
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: kenvanraas on October 12, 2017, 09:51:27 PM
Depends on what octaves your/his girl reach,

Now, the 3 main types of female voices are as follows:

1. Soprano
2. Mezzo Soprano
3. Contralto

...or are you refering to HiFi?
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: B_Unit on October 12, 2017, 09:54:51 PM
 :ROFLMAO:

HiFi and any other noise coming from that room. That door needs to be sound proof both ways.

but I would say Soprano.  :thinking:

Ill post a picture of the frame tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: kenvanraas on October 12, 2017, 09:56:55 PM
Please do my friend,it will make All the difference  :dop:
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: adie on October 12, 2017, 10:16:24 PM
:ROFLMAO:

Ill post a picture of the frame soprano tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: TimbaLand on October 12, 2017, 11:42:07 PM
Rather make sure that both of you bring vhirks on the same day. There may be some noise cancellation when they scream in unison

Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Gerlach on October 13, 2017, 06:38:02 AM
Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!  :ROFLMAO: This one is going to be fun one!! Use the pillow to silence her!!!  :giggle:
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: TimbaLand on October 13, 2017, 06:47:55 AM
Rather make sure that both of you bring vhirks on the same day. There may be some noise cancellation when they scream in unison

Rather make sure that both of you bring girls on the same day. There may be some noise cancellation when they scream in unison
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Hi-Phibian on October 13, 2017, 07:04:05 AM
I would suggest replacement of the door with one done in double glazing.   Itís amazingly efficient at noise blocking. 







[Anyone who thinks that wealth is measured in money is blind and narrow minded.  Wealth is obviously measured in turntables and records.]
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: adie on October 13, 2017, 07:14:52 AM
I would suggest replacement of the door with one done in double glazing.   Itís amazingly efficient at noise blocking. 

So they can watch each other??







[Anyone who thinks that wealth is measured in money is blind and narrow minded.  Wealth is obviously measured in turntables and records.]
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Trompie67 on October 13, 2017, 07:31:59 AM
Use a sock. Long sport sock. Much more cost efficient.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Gerlach on October 13, 2017, 07:48:42 AM
Maybe this stuff will work??  :ROFLMAO: :point:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XFcAAOSw1BlZVfeU/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: d0dja on October 13, 2017, 09:26:31 AM
Prob the best and easiest is to get a number of Isotherm panels, they're 60cmx120cm in (afair) up to 5cm thickness. You'd need two thicknesses to really damp sound.

But it'd work the best ... it's dense fibre, exceptional sound absorbing properties. You could insert it in the space, as tightly into the frame as you can make it (even a tiny gap will make it massively less effective). Then simply tack a sheet of material over it to hide it, keep it where it is and stop any dust/fibres coming off it.

And if you need to open the door in an emergency you can just barge through it.

Now, back to the innuendo and muffled titters.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: AlleyCat on October 13, 2017, 10:26:23 AM
This is a good thread.

Seriously, dude, treat the whole room! Treating the doors alone is not going to help you.

And stay away from the screamers, or buy decent pillows as suggested above, just make sure you don't smother them [too much].

And here we thought we have real hifi problems, cable threads are boring. Way to go Byron!
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Katji on October 13, 2017, 10:34:16 AM
This flat I'm currently staying in, there is just one problem. It bugs me. Person in flat above, I think, is tapping rhythmically; sometimes at like 4:30am, the other night at about 7:30pm.  I don't know what to do, how to tell him he needs to fix the bed or whatever it is. Thought about putting a notice/message in the lift.  :???:
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: AlleyCat on October 13, 2017, 11:13:48 AM
^ Dear Doctor Ruth, or is Dr Ken Kassler today?].....

This flat I'm currently staying in, there is just one problem. It bugs me..........

Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: AlleyCat on October 13, 2017, 11:15:09 AM
This is a good thread.

Seriously, dude, treat the whole room! Treating the doors alone is not going to help you.

And stay away from the screamers louder tannoys, or buy decent pillows as suggested above, just make sure you don't smother them [too much].

And here we thought we have real hifi problems, cable threads are boring. Way to go Byron!
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Gerlach on October 13, 2017, 11:44:26 AM
This is a good thread.

Seriously, dude, treat the whole room! Treating the doors alone is not going to help you.

And stay away from the screamers, or buy decent pillows as suggested above, just make sure you don't smother them [too much].

And here we thought we have real hifi problems, cable threads are boring. Way to go Byron!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! :ROFLMAO: :point: :ROFLMAO: :point: :ROFLMAO: :point:

Just spilled my Coffee!!!
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Gerlach on October 13, 2017, 11:50:58 AM
This flat I'm currently staying in, there is just one problem. It bugs me. Person in flat above, I think, is tapping rhythmically; sometimes at like 4:30am, the other night at about 7:30pm.  I don't know what to do, how to tell him he needs to fix the bed or whatever it is. Thought about putting a notice/message in the lift.  :???:

HAHA!! Sounds like a friend of mine, where his neighbour ask him one morning out side his apartment if they can just moved the Headboard of the bed away from the wall  :ROFLMAO:
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: B_Unit on October 14, 2017, 01:53:07 AM
Gentlemen !

Here is the Door in question.

(https://image.ibb.co/evYWVb/IMG_3303.jpg)

Here is the amount of depth we can work with roughly 48 cm.

(https://image.ibb.co/nrhKGG/IMG_3305.jpg)

Ill post more text tomorrow its a bit late now, Cheers for all the feedback though.

Regards

Byron

Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: CAD on October 14, 2017, 08:03:33 AM
This thread is heading for Legendary Status.

A good read this morning  :giggle:
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Rodney_gold on October 14, 2017, 09:50:53 AM

A good read this moAning  :giggle:
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Steerpike on October 14, 2017, 09:08:41 PM
Lots of comments, and nothing on real soundproofing yet!

The most important bit is getting it air-tight. The bulk of the 'partition' that you use can be something like chip-board, or even another door if you can find a cheap secondhand one. A double layer partition is way better than a single.  Then you need to seal all around it in a totally air-tight manner - mattress foam isn't the best. Pool Noodles are probably good, being closed cell.

If there are other paths for sound, like through the ceiling, or via a suspended floor, it might not be worth spending too much on sealing the door.

Another option:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/I-sopod_Flotation_Tank.jpg)
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: CAD on October 14, 2017, 10:59:48 PM
Cheapest or most cost effective option  :nfi:

(http://www.fuse-boxelectrical.co.uk/images/P/Duct%20Tape%20-%20Grey.jpg)
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Scubadude on October 15, 2017, 09:13:53 PM
Cheapest or most cost effective option  :nfi:

(http://www.fuse-boxelectrical.co.uk/images/P/Duct%20Tape%20-%20Grey.jpg)

Disclaimer: No hamster was hurt in the making of this thread.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Hi-Phibian on October 16, 2017, 06:19:40 AM
Disclaimer: No beaver was hurt in the making of this thread.

Fixed.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: CAD on October 16, 2017, 07:10:47 AM
^^^  :giggle:
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: d0dja on October 16, 2017, 07:39:17 AM
Cheapest or most cost effective option  :nfi:

(http://www.fuse-boxelectrical.co.uk/images/P/Duct%20Tape%20-%20Grey.jpg)

He's not kidding. The key is air-tight. Any gaps will let sound through.

Duct tape the door all around the edges. Then get a big piece of drywalling (rhinolite?) cut to fit as exactly as possible into frame , duct tape that too. If you can, put isotherem tightly into that cavity (na gaps!).

That will sound proof extremely effectively.

Alternatively, learn tantra.

Like Sting.


Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Danny Boy on October 16, 2017, 09:27:20 AM
Cheapest or most cost effective option  :nfi:

(http://www.fuse-boxelectrical.co.uk/images/P/Duct%20Tape%20-%20Grey.jpg)
Yeah, 10cm on a 5m roll will go a looong way
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: TimbaLand on October 16, 2017, 11:36:10 AM
Cheapest or most cost effective option  :nfi:

(http://www.fuse-boxelectrical.co.uk/images/P/Duct%20Tape%20-%20Grey.jpg)

Best solution offered
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: vleisman on October 16, 2017, 12:12:01 PM
Best solution offered

Removal can be painful   :thinking:

you would probably get the added benefit of no more moustache  :sh1tstirrer:

I think it's best I avoid this thread...
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: B_Unit on October 17, 2017, 10:29:49 PM
(https://i0.wp.com/media4.giphy.com/media/3oEduWdwWuozUrWXio/giphy.gif)

Gentlemen, one at a time.

Cheapest or most cost effective option  :nfi:

(http://www.fuse-boxelectrical.co.uk/images/P/Duct%20Tape%20-%20Grey.jpg)

It depends hey, not everyone is into that  :roll:

you would probably get the added benefit of no more moustache  :sh1tstirrer:


Im not aiming for ones with moustaches here  :whistler:


The most important bit is getting it air-tight. The bulk of the 'partition' that you use can be something like chip-board, or even another door if you can find a cheap secondhand one. A double layer partition is way better than a single.  Then you need to seal all around it in a totally air-tight manner - mattress foam isn't the best. Pool Noodles are probably good, being closed cell.


I can always rely on Steerpike for good advice !

So I have two plans of actions here.


Should there be an air gap between the new door and the wooden piece I will install ? Or should some materiel be placed in this space ?

Thanks for the feedback guys. Pics will be posted as soon as some progress is made.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: AlleyCat on October 17, 2017, 10:56:29 PM
^^Byron, please post some pics, especially when there's these noises you talk of, preferably when both rooms are occupied. We won't be able to constructively assist without pics/video(s).

Seeing/hearing is believing.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Timber_MG on October 17, 2017, 10:59:15 PM
Assuming the plan is to seal off the door, I would look into drywall track & stud and affix it in a manner to be approved by landlord. If you are absolutely forbidden from montage adhesives and screw fasteners, you can build a frame (timber or light steel frame), fill the cavity with a suitable absorber and don't link the two wall layers (meaning don't have studs affix both inner and outer barriers. The whole frame would then be gasketed and press fit into position on two foam seals. If you are looking to do this on the cheap, even without the infill it can work well and the attenuation is largely dependent on the seal and the air gap thickness. I would start with a 63mm or greater floor track for the outer frame and use 51mm studs staggered as to not couple inner and outer "wall".

For a temporary and cheap relief you can focus on sealing any gaps with sealing tape and close off the door gaps. The more isolation you achieve, the more important the sealing becomes.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: HBAutomation on October 17, 2017, 11:25:07 PM
Pool noodles?   :BWAHAHAH: keep it coming...
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Scubadude on October 18, 2017, 05:42:26 AM
Quote
Next will be to get one large piece of wood

With the right companion getting large wood would be easy enough.

 
Quote
... get pool noodles ... and ... silde them on ... the wooden piece

You may be doing this wrong. I suggest sliding the "pool noodle" onto a broomstick and get on the job with the wooden piece in its natural state.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: B_Unit on October 19, 2017, 11:20:25 PM
With the right companion getting large wood would be easy enough.

 
You may be doing this wrong. I suggest sliding the "pool noodle" onto a broomstick and get on the job with the wooden piece in its natural state.

Could you please explain "get on the job with the wooden piece in its natural state" ? I cannot tell if its an innuendo.

Here is a super rough drawing of my plan.

(https://image.ibb.co/dEZb1R/IMG_3357.jpg)

Note in the drawing the noodles are only on two sides but the plan is to surround the wood with them.

Ill cut the "noodle" allowing a space of the wood to slide into. Almost like how one installs a windshield for a car by fitting a rubber around the windshield so it will fit snug on the car frame.

So I went to Bauhaus a much better version of Builder Warehouse this side of the world to investigate what materials they have.

I found some chip board wood. What do you guys think about using this ?

(https://image.ibb.co/kYp46R/IMG_3363.jpg)

I also found some insulation material.

Some REALLY thick pieces of polystyrene (maybe this could be a substitute for the wood ? I could just glue/cut them to the size I need.

(https://image.ibb.co/n3rO0m/IMG_3361.jpg)

(https://image.ibb.co/eaJgmR/IMG_3362.jpg)

and some fluffy material (don't quite know the name).

(https://image.ibb.co/irw6Lm/IMG_3365.jpg)

Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: d0dja on October 20, 2017, 10:48:51 AM
That Isover would do the trick well. Looks like same as Isotherm. It's much better than foam because it's denser, much much better at absorbing lower frequencies.

Pool noodle looks like a mission for little reward. Cut the chipboard so that it is as tight as possible with minimal gap, and then duct tape the crack. Will hold the board in place, so double the benefit.

Two layers of chipboard with isotherm inside, cracks/air gaps taped up tight. Job done.

 

Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: B_Unit on October 20, 2017, 04:10:10 PM
That Isover would do the trick well. Looks like same as Isotherm. It's much better than foam because it's denser, much much better at absorbing lower frequencies.

Pool noodle looks like a mission for little reward. Cut the chipboard so that it is as tight as possible with minimal gap, and then duct tape the crack. Will hold the board in place, so double the benefit.

Two layers of chipboard with isotherm inside, cracks/air gaps taped up tight. Job done.

I cannot stick anything to the wall. duct tape will remove the paint eventually.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: B_Unit on October 20, 2017, 04:57:48 PM
(http://preview.ibb.co/hkJAfm/Untitled.png)

I did just notice this on the Isover cover it s also pretty cheap...

I just read that polystyrene is not a good option for sound proofing.

Any other suggestions on how to seal the wood within the door frame ?



Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: B_Unit on October 20, 2017, 06:44:28 PM
Here Is some update drawings done in Google Sketch Up

(http://image.ibb.co/mBQZ6R/Sound_Proof_Door_1.png)

(http://image.ibb.co/e5ji0m/Sound_Proof_Door_2.png)
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Timber_MG on October 20, 2017, 08:42:37 PM
Use an adhesive strip gasket from Gelmar to seal the panels. I would still opt for drywall materials as one can simply implement staggered studs and get the attenuation in a panel that easily fits inside the door frame. Your suggested config could be massively improved by making the door air-tight, as is you may not get enough attenuation for the effort. Even a draft stopper and some sealant tape would make a dramatic difference.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: marantz123 on October 21, 2017, 11:40:23 AM
Awesome thread!   :clap:  owners of rental units dont want any structures fixed that would leave holes in walls and tiles afterwards. The cheapest, easiest, quickest, owner-acceptable and multipurpose solution I can think of  is to get a foam shop to cut a 6inch thick piece of matress foam that is 2 inches extra all the way round wrt length x breadth of the doorway and then stuff this in that door way. Multipurpose function comes in when you have buddies over and need an extra matress...if theres nothing else going on....either side of the door. :giggle: If not good enough, get another 6'inches. Nothing will come through there! Additionally a little hifi with a Crossley turntable playing softly in the background will drown out any remnants of a soprano singer from the other room.  Increase volume if neccessary/possibe. Kent Kassler will tell us which LP you should play!...waiting in anticipation!! :rubhands:
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Timber_MG on October 22, 2017, 07:04:34 AM
Nothing will come through there!

Unfortunately this couldn't be further from the truth. You need mass, stiffness, decoupling of membranes and gap sealing to effectively attenuate a noise source from an adjacent room.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: d0dja on October 22, 2017, 11:01:51 AM
(http://preview.ibb.co/hkJAfm/Untitled.png)

I did just notice this on the Isover cover it s also pretty cheap...

I just read that polystyrene is not a good option for sound proofing.

Any other suggestions on how to seal the wood within the door frame ?

Seriously... duct tape. Or if youíre feeling in the mood, insert the chipboard or drywall material in as near a fit as you can, and then work Painters Mate or similar acrylic filler (when you pull the panels out itíll come off with some hard scraping and rubbing. Two layers of chipboard, isotherm in the middle. First put duct tape all around the existing door, thatíll help a lot.

You want air seal (any ďundampedĒ path for sound), then dense mass to absorb energy transmitted by re-radiation.

Youíre over thinking this.

As Steerpike and Timber recommend. Duct tape the doors, two layers of chipboard or drywall separated by isotherm. Duct tape in place. You donít need frames , etc to mount it to. In fact thatíll prob make it worse as you create a path for sound energy by coupling layers together.



Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: Timber_MG on October 22, 2017, 11:07:20 AM
Rental terms were no adhesive mastics or tapes, so one has to press-fit a frame into the door gap. This is done by making it for arguments sake exactly 3mm under size all the way round and pressing a foam seal in all the way round. This is very simply accomplished with a light steel frame structure with drywall or with wooden panels in situ with timber packers to get to within your desired gap.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: B_Unit on December 14, 2017, 05:12:05 PM
### UPDATE ###

So Universty has been hectic and caused this project to slow down but I have now completed it !

So the story goes. I bought a new Bed after moving into the new apartment, I was then about to throw away my old mattress when I thought "Maybe I can just push this in the door frame for the time being until I get all the materials" I then noticed that there was a Zip around the entire mattress which I never really took notice of until this moment. I unzipped it and Found exactly what I needed ! 

(https://preview.ibb.co/he0ELR/IMG_3591.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fNrbZm)

This was a pretty big score since I did not need to spend R1000 +- on Foam. Best of all, there were two layers of two types. 1 Triangular foam and 1 plane square foam.

This was great ! So pulled out the knife and cut the foam to fit into the door frame with 2cm extra on each side.

(https://preview.ibb.co/h9w4LR/IMG_3592.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fUcYEm)

Here I test fitted the foam. There was already an improvement in sound insulation between the two rooms.

My Roommate and I went to the local hardware store and asked for the thickest sheet of wood they had. I was expecting some MDF wood, but they only had chip board with, but this was incredibly dense and incredibly heavy.

Luckily the width of the wood was the exact size we needed so the length just had to be slightly cut, now this was a very large piece of wood so we had to get the delivery service to deliver it since we would not be able to fit it on the metro train :P.

(https://preview.ibb.co/ioCYEm/IMG_3717.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fUKDEm)

After a week it arrived and we began preparing the wood. A few parts of the wood had to be slightly cut with a hacksaw since the wall was not a perfect square also 2cm x 1cm rectangles had to also be cut at the bottom of the panel to allow for the skirting on the floor.

This was fairly straight forward. But when we were test fitting the panel we hit the corner of the wall and took a chunk of the wall out >.<

(https://preview.ibb.co/fSEG0R/IMG_3719.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dcU5um)

flip.

But we had to finish the job either way. So we began trying to glue the foam to the wood. We had Purchased spray glue for this. Once we began applying it, it was noticeable that this glue was not going to do the job.

1: The glue was no where near as strong as we thought it would be.

2: The glue was being absorbed by the foam.

So then the next recursive loop in the project was to find glue that would work with the foam and wood. After about a week of research and buying five different types of adhesives which did not work I found this stuff.

(https://preview.ibb.co/dm9S76/IMG_3813.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iJxrZm)
 (https://imgbb.com/)

Luckly it was very cheap Aprox R150 .

The texture is very very sticky. The best way to describe it is to imagine the texture and stickiness of hot toffy

Here is a pic of some of the residue.

(https://preview.ibb.co/mWvZn6/IMG_3814.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fLYLS6)

Once we had this we glue of parts of the foam to the wood and struggled for 15 minutes squeezing the panel in the door frame. Since the foam was slightly larger to create air tightness this made it incredibly difficult plus the weight of the wooden panel.

Eventually we got it inside nice a snug.

And here is the final product

(https://preview.ibb.co/gjq94m/IMG_0030.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e3Xdx6)

The design is similar to what I posted previously in google sketchup.

It consists of 3 layers. <Triangular Foam - Wood - Normal Square Foam>.

The results. Well Very good. I can play my HiFi system at a decent level and its barley audible on the other side. But Base still gets threw.

But still a 10 fold of a difference.

Hope you guys enjoyed the read.

Thanks for the feedback and information.

Byron
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: AlleyCat on December 14, 2017, 08:14:16 PM
Nice work Byron, now let us know once the sorority girls have come play and give us some more feedback then.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: adie on December 15, 2017, 08:32:12 AM
Nice workaround.
If you have an foam left put some under the wood on the floor.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: JonnyP on December 18, 2017, 03:35:06 PM
Next time you are at a hippy market, get one of those cheap Indian cloth bed spread things and 'hang it' by putting it over the top.  Finish the room with some psychedelic art posters (framed - the frames are cheap at IKEA), at least one large lamp with a loose piece of diaphanous cloth to dim it, some joss sticks and bingo...You'll be testing the acoustic blocking tendencies of the partition in no time.
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: B_Unit on December 18, 2017, 11:28:34 PM
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/ui1hpJSyBDWlG/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Sound Proofing a Door
Post by: thomtom on December 28, 2017, 06:31:30 AM
keep us posted on the Bass Trap DIY! :RTFM: