Author Topic: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm  (Read 1167 times)

Offline Sound_Hound_SA

Re: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2021, 08:15:02 PM »
As a dealer myself I like to think I know how things work.
As Alpha Tech is the listed SA distributor and I assuming that all retail dealers get their stock via AT (else their will be no local warranties), are they not perhaps coining it? Brands should assure that retail prices are equalised no matter in which market you buy.

If the local distributor (AT) cannot assure that (price equalisation), I have no faith in them to support local warranties.

Exactly my concern about lack of governance and authority, Brands are crucifing their own reputation, by allowing local sales and international. At the same time try to keep pricing on par with international would be rather difficult given our exchange rate

As for AT coining it one can say the same for all the other suppliers we deal with?
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Offline Ummagumma

Re: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2021, 08:34:05 PM »
 That's just the way of retail. We pay for every hand that touches a product. They do add value to the manufacturer in way of storage and distrabution and for the consumer they are a single point of contact when it comes to warranties and returns. I have made a decision long ago to only support local business no matter the extra cost, to date I have never baught anything online that had to be shipped to my door from outside our borders. Just wish we had more local manufacturers of audio and video equipment, then I can replace all the Japanese and european brands in my house.
For long you live and high you fly. The smiles you give the tears you cry. And all you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be

Offline grumpybear

Re: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2021, 08:50:59 PM »
Drifter with all due respect you have no idea how this works.  We (Alpha Technologies) effectively pay the same price as Amazon for Beyerdynamic, Amazon also get priority off the production line and have the muscle to demand special editions, colours and packaging should they wish.  They also use their muscle to negotiate far better shipping rates than we or any other local supplier can.  South Africa is a tiny little market, we sell less headphones IN TOTAL over all brands than Amazon alone sell of just Beyer.

"As a dealer myself I like to think I know how things work.
As Alpha Tech is the listed SA distributor and I assuming that all retail dealers get their stock via AT (else their will be no local warranties), are they not perhaps coining it? Brands should assure that retail prices are equalised no matter in which market you buy.

If the local distributor (AT) cannot assure that (price equalisation), I have no faith in them to support local warranties."


The above quote is pure assumption.

Brands have no interest in equalising prices worldwide, only in selling product.  This is not just Beyer but any major company.

How can you come to the conclusion that AT are unable to support the local warranty?

Also please compare apples with apples, DT 880 Pro and 880 Edition are not priced the same anywhere in the world.



Offline Zilch

Re: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2021, 10:29:44 PM »
Below is a screenshot of my Amazon order that I placed on 1 May straight from the Beyerdynamics store. I paid R3,805 incl priority shipping to my door. Why on earth would I pay R1,300 more plus another R150 to get it delivered to me?

As @Ummagumma and @grumpybear have so nicely mentioned, the service and warranty.

For example, I could've easily bought a new Intel NUC on Amazon, where it would've no doubt been cheaper.  But instead I got it through Wootware, a local company.  They have excellent customer service, and if something does go wrong I know I can depend on them to fix the issue.  Thus saving me time and money.
If you don't understand the difference between "their", " there" and "they're" then your a idiot.

Offline Drifter

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Re: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2021, 09:51:24 AM »
This rightfully has nothing to do with me and I should actually just bugger off and not stick my nose in where it does not belong.
As a consumer I can choose where I want to buy and if I can get a lower priced offer, I should just take that without asking questions.
So this is just me being annoying - but I guess I have the fullest right to understand what is being offered to me.
You are welcome to dismiss my ramblings. I have no nefarious intent - simply a need to understand.

We (Alpha Technologies)

A puzzle piece fell into place.

We (Alpha Technologies) effectively pay the same price as Amazon for Beyerdynamic, Amazon also get priority off the production line and have the muscle to demand special editions, colours and packaging should they wish.  They also use their muscle to negotiate far better shipping rates than we or any other local supplier can. 

I just wanted to point out that I did not order my set from Amazon in their capacity as Beyer distributors. The supplier is Kaviso, an authorised Beyerdynamic distributor. They use the Amazon retail storefront and Amazon fulfillment center.







Fulfillment by Amazon is charged per item based on size/weight.


I have been following the Kaviso storefront for a while. The stock that they receive is limited, so they are definitely not a large distributor who can demand significant volume discounts.
 

We (Alpha Technologies) effectively pay the same price as Amazon for Beyerdynamic, Amazon also get priority off the production line and have the muscle to demand special editions, colours and packaging should they wish.  They also use their muscle to negotiate far better shipping rates than we or any other local supplier can. 

In this case I am therefore buying directly from Amazon or Kaviso in my case - both who are registered direct distributors of Beyer products.
In SA, with AlphaTech being the sole SA direct distributor, another value chain layer is now introduced by selling through retailers. This additional layer obviously adds to the final cost for the consumer as the retailer also wants their profit.


Your website lists the RRP's for the items you are the agents for here: https://alpha-tec.co.za/download-pricelist/
You list the DT880 600ohm Edition as R5150 excl VAT. So R5922.50 incl VAT.
upload my image on image website

I battle to reconcile the R3,805 I paid (which includes distibutor profit, the cost of Amazon fullfillment, global shipment, import duties, import VAT, courier cost to my house) with R5,922. That is more than a R2,000 difference.
In a standard manufacturing and supply chain value chain, the manufacturer has a cost price and a required margin. The product is therefore offered to the next player in this value chain (distributor in this case) at that cost plus margin price. A separate clause usually sets out volume kick-backs, so if a distributor manages to sell more than a certain volume based on a marginal scale, said distributor will then receive a credit to the value of that volume discount. This evens the playing field and ensure that all distributors are treated equal. I cannot imagine that Beyer will follow a different model to this - so the factory gate price (manufacturing cost plus manufacturing margin) will be the same for all distributors. Distributor margin is usually also prescribed to some extent by the manufacturer. So all things being equal (excluding shipping cost, import duties and forex exposure) the RRP that you can offer versus what a distributor in the USA can offer should be very similar.

Drifter with all due respect you have no idea how this works

Cool.

In the case of DT880 in this screenshot it comes direct from the supplier and there is no middle man to make a commission hence the overall lower price.

Exactly. Why should I, as a consumer in SA, have to carry the cost for the distributor introducing an additional layer into the value chain?

A lot of guys jump through loop holes to bring in items via, ebay, amazon, bangGood and Alibaba and rave about their savings, but come time to send the items back for warranty no one ever wants to share those horrible experiences

Beyer has an international warranty. So irrespective of where I have bought it, as long as I can prove I bought it from a registered distributor and have complied with the warranty conditions, the repairs will be done in any country where there is a distributor service center.
I do not see anything on Beyer's site nor on AphaTec's website that sets aside the international warranty for Beyer products being used in SA.





In a nutshell support the local guys, when you require higher end that will cost you double in Price to ship from international shores, we are always willing to dish out good discounts.

I want to so badly. I simply CANNOT reconcile the numbers.

How can you come to the conclusion that AT are unable to support the local warranty?

It was an uncalled for comment from my side. I apologise and retract the comment.

Also please compare apples with apples, DT 880 Pro and 880 Edition are not priced the same anywhere in the world.

While my original post heading mentioned the PRO, my order was for the Edition and so was my local price comparisons.

Offline Ummagumma

Re: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2021, 10:49:50 AM »
Great for you and well done on saving so much money. Since the day I decided to open my online shop I have been met with nothing but negative comments from friends and family saying this is not a viable business and it will fail. I now understand why they say that. :point: I dont care, I love it.
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Offline Doge

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Re: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2021, 11:51:21 AM »
I looked at the 600 ohm variant of the 990.  They can (most likely) be directly coupled to this amp...
http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Leserbriefe/Siemens-EL86/EL86.htm

Karel Mars can easily build custom transformers and chokes for the above^^^

I didn't expect such an out-there answer TBH really meant something more civilian, e.g., a Little Dot Mk II, DarkVoice, Schiit Valhalla, etc.

Would be nice to know if these are actually good amps for the 600Ω edition as they are in theory...

Offline grumpybear

Re: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2021, 01:15:07 PM »
As the distributors of Beyerdynamic we of course need to make a markup and so do our dealers so yes there is "an additional layer" to the consumer.  Without this the retailer/dealer obviously cannot run a business.  We support the dealer so they can support you.  The price of R5,150 ex VAT is a suggested retail price, the dealers can and do discount this as they see fit, often at 20%.  A likely price to the consumer is then R4,740 or thereabouts, still more than your Amazon price but not a R2K difference.  For this there is no risk to the customer of the parcel not arriving or incurring additional unexpected costs and you have local support.

"In a standard manufacturing and supply chain value chain, the manufacturer has a cost price and a required margin. The product is therefore offered to the next player in this value chain (distributor in this case) at that cost plus margin price. A separate clause usually sets out volume kick-backs, so if a distributor manages to sell more than a certain volume based on a marginal scale, said distributor will then receive a credit to the value of that volume discount. This evens the playing field and ensure that all distributors are treated equal. I cannot imagine that Beyer will follow a different model to this - so the factory gate price (manufacturing cost plus manufacturing margin) will be the same for all distributors. Distributor margin is usually also prescribed to some extent by the manufacturer. So all things being equal (excluding shipping cost, import duties and forex exposure) the RRP that you can offer versus what a distributor in the USA can offer should be very similar."

The manufacturer has a price list much like we have a retail price list.  They will negotiate deals from this based on quantity, marketing benefits, developing a new market etc. etc.  There is no "even playing field"
Distributor margin has nothing to do with the manufacturer and is based on the need for an importer to make a reasonable living.  Our costs include a high interest rate, higher transport costs, local import requirements and so on.  These do not apply to an American on line store and they can work on smaller margins particularly since they will turn over a lot more product.

With regard to warranties we would ask for proof of purchase so as to establish when and where the product was bought.  If purchased from an international on line site where we make nothing on the deal is it fair for you to expect us to incur costs looking after your purchase? You would always be welcome to return it to the place of purchase or to Beyerdynamic directly.

At the end of the day it is the consumer's right to purchase what they want from where they want and to try and get a good deal.  Price however IMO should not be the only factor taken into consideration.

Offline Sound_Hound_SA

Re: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2021, 04:19:10 PM »
Local supplier, local warranty = Less Headache

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We supply a variety of AV Equipment, ranging from KEF, NAD, Bluesound, PSB, Dali, Klipsch, Polk, Jamo, Optoma, Epson, Edifier, Rega, Pro-Ject, etc

Offline Drifter

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Re: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2021, 09:04:40 AM »
As the distributors of Beyerdynamic we of course need to make a markup and so do our dealers so yes there is "an additional layer" to the consumer.  Without this the retailer/dealer obviously cannot run a business.  We support the dealer so they can support you. 

This is the answer I was looking for.

Local supplier, local warranty = Less Headache

If you talk-the-talk, you better be able to walk-the-walk.

So if I buy a set of R3,000 Beyer headsets from you for R1,000 more than what I can get it from Amazon, what value-add do I get?
If you don't have a bricks and mortar shop with demo facilities where I can take my own music and head-amp and get the ability to demo the entire Beyer range assisted by a patient and knowledgeable closet-audiophile sales guy, what does the additional R1,000 get me?
You can tell me the "after sales support" - but that simply means that in the 1% chance that something goes wrong with a headphone design that is 30 years old already, I send it back to you and you send it back to AlphaTec. In reality you will probably tell me to take it to AlphaTec's warehouse in Montague Gardens.


I think this article that appeared on MyBroadband News explains the risk that the SA retail market is currently facing.
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/business/395839-takealot-under-threat-from-an-invisible-enemy.html
The fact that Wish is teaming up with SAPO to provide tracking and faster shipping could have a massive impact on local online retailers. Whether SAPO can actually manage to pull this off is another story altogether.

Time for a business model rethink.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 09:06:43 AM by Drifter »

Offline Sound_Hound_SA

Re: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2021, 11:01:36 AM »
This is the answer I was looking for.

If you talk-the-talk, you better be able to walk-the-walk.

So if I buy a set of R3,000 Beyer headsets from you for R1,000 more than what I can get it from Amazon, what value-add do I get?
If you don't have a bricks and mortar shop with demo facilities where I can take my own music and head-amp and get the ability to demo the entire Beyer range assisted by a patient and knowledgeable closet-audiophile sales guy, what does the additional R1,000 get me?
You can tell me the "after sales support" - but that simply means that in the 1% chance that something goes wrong with a headphone design that is 30 years old already, I send it back to you and you send it back to AlphaTec. In reality you will probably tell me to take it to AlphaTec's warehouse in Montague Gardens.


I think this article that appeared on MyBroadband News explains the risk that the SA retail market is currently facing.
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/business/395839-takealot-under-threat-from-an-invisible-enemy.html
The fact that Wish is teaming up with SAPO to provide tracking and faster shipping could have a massive impact on local online retailers. Whether SAPO can actually manage to pull this off is another story altogether.

Time for a business model rethink.

I am sure that everyone tries to save a buck here and there, headphones are likely to last you a couple of good years for sure so those items would make sense to buy amazon

Some of us just prefer to buy local, its personal preference at the end of the day
www.stponline.co.za
We supply a variety of AV Equipment, ranging from KEF, NAD, Bluesound, PSB, Dali, Klipsch, Polk, Jamo, Optoma, Epson, Edifier, Rega, Pro-Ject, etc

Offline Trompie67

Re: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2021, 05:19:49 PM »
This is the answer I was looking for.

If you talk-the-talk, you better be able to walk-the-walk.

So if I buy a set of R3,000 Beyer headsets from you for R1,000 more than what I can get it from Amazon, what value-add do I get?
If you don't have a bricks and mortar shop with demo facilities where I can take my own music and head-amp and get the ability to demo the entire Beyer range assisted by a patient and knowledgeable closet-audiophile sales guy, what does the additional R1,000 get me?
You can tell me the "after sales support" - but that simply means that in the 1% chance that something goes wrong with a headphone design that is 30 years old already, I send it back to you and you send it back to AlphaTec. In reality you will probably tell me to take it to AlphaTec's warehouse in Montague Gardens.


I think this article that appeared on MyBroadband News explains the risk that the SA retail market is currently facing.
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/business/395839-takealot-under-threat-from-an-invisible-enemy.html
The fact that Wish is teaming up with SAPO to provide tracking and faster shipping could have a massive impact on local online retailers. Whether SAPO can actually manage to pull this off is another story altogether.

Time for a business model rethink.

Anyone buying from Wish & expecting delivery from SAPO deserves what they get (or don't, as reality will probably attest) from SAPO!  :BWAHAHAH: :BWAHAHAH:
It's not like they're even going to get what they *thought* they ordered!  :nutter: Order a dress, receive one that is for a Barbie Doll. (Yes, it happened...) That's why it's called "Wish" - you wish you knew what you were ACTUALLY purchasing!  :facepalm:

It's simple really:
Support local
or don't

There are short, medium & long term advantages to supporting local. It's not all about warranty and once-off experiences. It's about the long term sustainability of the industry and the role players involved. And those they in turn support.
There are often short term (as in financial) advantages to not supporting local. I've not found overriding medium or long term advantages yet. For those who's motivation is price sensitivity that works.

Personally I prefer to support the local guys.

As a "frame of reference":
We import certain items direct.
We purchase certain items from other importers.
We have companies that contract manufacture certain items locally for us.
We purchase from other local manufacturers.

I still prefer to support local, even with a premium of around 30%, if I can. Above 30/35%% it does admittedly become harder to justify the value proposition, both personally & to clients.

As always, YMMV.
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Offline rockmeister

Re: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2021, 06:32:57 PM »
Whats sad about this post is the poster says he is a dealer so he should know the dynamics of a small buisness instead he breaks down his fellow dealers for a few hundred rands

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Offline Drifter

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Re: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2021, 07:36:33 PM »
Whats sad about this post is the poster says he is a dealer so he should know the dynamics of a small buisness instead he breaks down his fellow dealers for a few hundred rands

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

Your comment is akin to me turning a blind eye to Julius Malema receiving a R100m tender and not delivering simply because of BEE.

I am just a consumer that earns my money through blood sweat and tears. I simply don't have money to burn.

I have recently grown quite fond of the Beyerdynamic headphones and want to understand the representation and the pricing model in SA.
The Beyer distributor and retailers have used this free public forum to advertise their products, why should I, as a consumer, not have the opportunity to query about pricing?
It appears as if many of the "dealers" are just simply people buying a Wix site who have a few spare hours on a Saturday morning to put together an e-commerce site and then demand a 40% mark-up for their trouble.

I have the absolute right to enquire about the value-add and I have the absolute right to decide where my money goes. If a dealer here wants to use this platform to advertise their products, they should expect enquiries about the pricing and support model.
I did exactly the same with Audeze about their SA support, I do exactly the same with Checkers if their produce are below standard and I demand the exact same answers from my councillor here in our Ward.

If the commercial members on here wants a single sided advertisement with no opportunity for consumer questions, then they should pay for it.
This a free forum for all to use and all my questions have simply been to understand the business model and the value add to Beyerdynamic consumers in SA for the additional layer of margin that seems to be unique to SA.








« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 07:40:01 PM by Drifter »

Offline Drifter

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Re: Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 600ohm
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2021, 08:18:24 PM »
Whats sad about this post is the poster says he is a dealer so he should know the dynamics of a small buisness instead he breaks down his fellow dealers for a few hundred rands

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Rocco, vreemde opmerking nadat jy self erken het dat jy jou stel DT880 600 ohm vanaf Amazon ingevoer het en vir selfs meer as AlphTec tweedehands probeer verkwansel nie.
Hoekom ondersteun jy nie self SA besighede nie?