Author Topic: Ferrite Cores / Beads  (Read 1581 times)

Offline Vince MacMahon

Ferrite Cores / Beads
« on: November 23, 2020, 03:39:07 PM »
Who is using them on their power cords and why?

Were there any gains?

Seemingly my AQ power cords came with them standard from factory. My aftermarket cables donít have.



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Offline Hi-Phibian

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Re: Ferrite Cores / Beads
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2020, 03:55:49 PM »
You get clip on ones.  Try them for reduced emi noise together with a reduction in presence and soundstage.  Imo they should only be applied to the ground.  They seem to help  positively with little sonic negatives there. 


 
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Offline Vince MacMahon

Re: Ferrite Cores / Beads
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2020, 03:58:09 PM »
Then not worth it I guess......

A problem with some of us, sometimes we want to fix a problem that never existed.

My system is dead quite (after removing Ellis extension cord and replaced with a power conditioner; aftermarket cords goes into power conditioner, tube still, no noise)


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Re: Ferrite Cores / Beads
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2020, 04:53:49 PM »
One doesnít need to hear noise for it to have an effect.  Lower noise floor means greater dynamic range. 

Try them.  I tried 25 or more years ago when TDK released their clip on  types and didnít like all of their effect.  They were expensive then. 




 
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Offline Vince MacMahon

Re: Ferrite Cores / Beads
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2020, 07:31:54 PM »
Thanks G,

Iíll play around with them and see, the cost outlay is reasonable.

Anyone else that experimented with them?




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Offline pwatts

Re: Ferrite Cores / Beads
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2020, 08:52:44 AM »
One doesnít need to hear noise for it to have an effect.  Lower noise floor means greater dynamic range. 

Try them.  I tried 25 or more years ago when TDK released their clip on  types and didnít like all of their effect.  They were expensive then.

I'm surprised that even a ferrite clamp can have an adverse effect on power cables. Inline EMI filters I can still understand, given that they (can) operate down to the 100kHz range plus all the thin wiring in the common-mode chokes can theoretically also have an adverse effect. A clip-on choke is the same, but with a single turn as opposed to several and with no extended cable length. As a result they only absorb RF in the MHz range, and are usually used to reduce RF from the innards from radiating out on the power cable and thus failing emissions standards, as opposed to filtering what's coming in. On interconnects they can serve a helpful purpose for not being contaminated by external radiated EMI though. Why they still manage to suffer from the 'life-sucking' effect I find puzzling, but on the other hand not all ferrites are equal. Some will have a sharp Q with a high attenuation over a very narrow frequency range, others will cover a broader range but with less attenuation. The scientific method is to identify the range needing attenuation and select the appropriate clamp for the job.

Or, just buy a few and listen.

Offline sajunky

Re: Ferrite Cores / Beads
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2020, 09:13:43 AM »
You get clip on ones.  Try them for reduced emi noise together with a reduction in presence and soundstage.  Imo they should only be applied to the ground.  They seem to help  positively with little sonic negatives there.
It increases HF impedance of wire lowering a current leak. If you clip on the whole cable, it increase impedance for common mode only.

I woudn't use ferrite clamps on power cables, IHMO. It actually works by increasing noise between HiFi devices, pushing more current through interconnects. The best strategy is to keep a minimum impedance of power cables and increase common mode impedance of interconnects. Current flows the easiest way, so put ferrite clamps on interconnects (a whole cable, not individual wires). With stereo pairs clip it over both cables. Two ferrite clamps can be applied on both sides of the interconnect pair for the best effect.

Coming back to the power cable, use a double shielded thick wires cable, short as possible to the common multiplug. A common misunderstanding is that noise only comes in from mains socket. Not! A lot of noise comes out from silicon rectifiers and torroid transformer help radiate it out. If it doesn't, energy will dissipate internally, increasing PSU noise. It is one of the two reasons why torroid transformer is better. Now you know why shielded cables are needed for the gear with torroid transformers. I want to radiate a noise out, but as far as possible from the HiFi, it is why is a shielded cable.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 09:18:50 AM by sajunky »
If it measures good and sounds badóit's bad. If it measures bad and sounds good, you've measured the wrong thing.
/ Daniel R. von Recklinghausen, Chief Engineer, H.H. Scott/

Offline Hi-Phibian

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Re: Ferrite Cores / Beads
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2020, 09:52:56 AM »
I'm surprised that even a ferrite clamp can have an adverse effect on power cables. Inline EMI filters I can still understand, given that they (can) operate down to the 100kHz range plus all the thin wiring in the common-mode chokes can theoretically also have an adverse effect. A clip-on choke is the same, but with a single turn as opposed to several and with no extended cable length. As a result they only absorb RF in the MHz range, and are usually used to reduce RF from the innards from radiating out on the power cable and thus failing emissions standards, as opposed to filtering what's coming in. On interconnects they can serve a helpful purpose for not being contaminated by external radiated EMI though. Why they still manage to suffer from the 'life-sucking' effect I find puzzling, but on the other hand not all ferrites are equal. Some will have a sharp Q with a high attenuation over a very narrow frequency range, others will cover a broader range but with less attenuation. The scientific method is to identify the range needing attenuation and select the appropriate clamp for the job.

Or, just buy a few and listen.


No specs for the ones I tried.  A set of the original TDK and some that came off computer monitor cables. 


 
Croak Audio
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Re: Ferrite Cores / Beads
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2020, 09:54:40 AM »
I really didnít like them on interconnects at all yet one of the longest running but now discontinued cables from Cardas, the Quadlink, appeared to use something of its kind.  That said, that cable was designed to tame early hard digital. 


 
Croak Audio
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Offline Katji

Re: Ferrite Cores / Beads
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2020, 09:55:58 AM »
? ...This is the only one I have:






Offline Vince MacMahon

Re: Ferrite Cores / Beads
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2020, 10:19:21 AM »
? ...This is the only one I have:




Yup this is what I had in mind.....question for you: any SQ gains?

AudioQuest came standard with them on, factory fitted.

All my aftermarket shielded cables, donít have.....this is what sparked the curiosity.

Thanks for the conversation and technical insight made thus far!



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Offline Katji

Re: Ferrite Cores / Beads
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2020, 10:43:46 AM »
Quote
Yup this is what I had in mind.....question for you: any SQ gains?
No idea.  I got the PS with the DAC because one guy on head-fi tried the standard wall plug and a battery and this [matching] LPS and preferred the LPS, slightly.  So I never used the wall plug one.  :)  Thinking it could only be better, or no difference. And I'd heard a lot about LPS being better.

Offline sajunky

Re: Ferrite Cores / Beads
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2020, 03:47:12 PM »
No idea.  I got the PS with the DAC because one guy on head-fi tried the standard wall plug and a battery and this [matching] LPS and preferred the LPS, slightly.  So I never used the wall plug one.  :)  Thinking it could only be better, or no difference. And I'd heard a lot about LPS being better.
I take it as an example to conquer my post. :)

This is a different case, while I would still prefer grounding with a star joint point, it is not so easy to implement. Here is LPS, no AC cord and no rectifiers inside HiFi device. So it looks like a proper action to put the clamp on...
 :thinking:

But it didn't work on my laptop, I tried when having problem with my R2R11. Remember that it will work the best on the balanced interconnects, RCA inputs are likely to become more noisy.

@Vince MacMahon: You have a dual output LPS. Why you don't put a common clamp on both cables? It should help even on the unbalanced interconnects, I promise. :)

EDIT: Remove these two clamps first...
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 04:08:08 PM by sajunky »
If it measures good and sounds badóit's bad. If it measures bad and sounds good, you've measured the wrong thing.
/ Daniel R. von Recklinghausen, Chief Engineer, H.H. Scott/

Offline Katji

Re: Ferrite Cores / Beads
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2020, 04:04:16 PM »
Vince, iirc, you cut open some power cable/s and found what...one would rather not find, and then did DIY...?  And said "otherwise you never know."
That came to mind a few days ago - I got Edifier speakers that each have a power cable, and they have SA plugs, packaged at the factory (one box inside another box, both sealed with Edifier packaging tape - iow, not some dubious "generic" sourced by the SA distributor)...so I wondered.  I found one of the power cable threads, with G/Croak saying how the Supra cable was more flexible, so I did some searching...no luck, no Amazon,...could get something else that's proper but would need to find good fig.8 connectors first anyway.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2020, 04:11:04 PM by Katji »

Offline Hi-Phibian

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Ferrite Cores / Beads
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2020, 12:59:15 PM »
Just found these while looking for a plug for someone. 

The original proper ones from TDK.   
So even if you are not in to cassette decks in this retro age you can be retro and use TDK on your streamer.   

R350 incl Postnet for both, anyone? Then you can make up your own mind.  9mm ID.   Something I miss around here.  So much Google fu.  Little ear fu. 

Croak Audio
Analogue by birth, digital by design. Mostly a StereoType though known to enjoy some Mono too  http://www.croak.co.za https://instagram.com/croakaudio?igshid=1wzr83vlqtbyy