Author Topic: Political Correctness  (Read 3062 times)

Offline Music_Lover

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2020, 07:43:24 PM »

In short, if you need to consult the Political Correctness Manual to teach you respect for, understanding of, and kindness to others, don't bother.

You'll be wasting your time.

I do not call it "Political Correctness". I call it respect and understanding, what's the problem with being considerate?
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Offline goonchild

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2020, 12:13:50 AM »
Goon, if that boolean inversion is your sincere take on that argument then the cognitive dissonance you exhibit around side stepping the biggest lessons of the past 200 years in Gedankenwerk around societal change are not surprising. A moral standard "trying to do good" has seen the backside of enough people in the last century and a bit and it's apparent that expending effort in couching this any exact manner for you is a waste.

Most human endeavour is to be taken as someone acting in good faith. However the "moral" stance these days is less frequently tied to people's actions. It's too often degenerated to little more than a virtue signal aligned to some zeitgeist/moving goal of some societal influence, whatever one may fix one's gaze onto ... and that is quite fickle in this fast advancing age with accepted standard of behaviour today may loose you your job next year. Cui bono?

The authoritarian aspect of it: if a simple working guy has to fear for his job for a single uncautious mistake how far away is one from a Moscow show trial or a NSDAP rally or a struggle session?

The lessons of Lenin and co and what ideological nonsense fought it out in Weimar Germany and what followed gave Mr Orwell, Huxley enough relevance to become standard school reading...and so it should stay. Sad how little is leaned.

Timber, if that is what you derived from what I 'said', I despair of my ability to type clearly!

The term 'political correctness' is used too loosely to be useful. As a result, twitterative discussions of the subject (like the one in the present thread) tend muddify, which is why like JohnnyP I was not keen to dip my toe in. But there you go and here we are.

I think that keeping 'political correctness' closer to its historical roots, to refer to actual or attempted enforcement of political orthodoxy (of the kind that the ANC had in mind when it spoke of sending Julius Malema for political re-education, for example), allows us to be more precise and to communicate more clearly.

What the Jeremy Clarksons of the world (bless their ingenuous tell-it-'like'-it-is hearts) seem to refer to when they apoplectically ejaculate 'political correctness gone mad' is, I suggest, more accurately called social correctness. [Insert lengthy tract about anxious white men contemplating a world without them as alpha dog who have decided to 'take back' their gods-given place before they've lost it.]

None of this is to say that there are no problems. 'Safe spaces' at universities, for example, where students can hide from ideas that may offend them, are a ludicrous development in USAn universities. As was the (much more alarming, I think) demarcation during the reign of Bush II of minute areas of the USA as 'free-speech zones' to ensure that Bush II was not hurt by the wounding words of naughty citizens in desperate want of 'political correction'. 'Snowflakes', eh?

As for 'virtue signalling', to borrow from our USAn cousins, you'll find it across the political spectrum. What do you think politicians who profess undying love for 'family values' (Manson Family?) are doing? Or when they claim to be God-fearing folk? Or when they claim to be the 'most humble person' an interviewer has ever met? Or when they beg the question by claiming that they will make a thing 'great' 'again'?

In any event, if you disapprove of political correctness but also of its 'boolean inverse', would the correct conclusion be that you approve of some 'political correctness'? If it is, how much of it, when, about what, and, most importantly, why?

Offline legro

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2020, 10:20:34 AM »
In any event, if you disapprove of political correctness but also of its 'boolean inverse', would the correct conclusion be that you approve of some 'political correctness'? If it is, how much of it, when, about what, and, most importantly, why?

Why either-or, for-against?

Recent ominous signs notwithstanding, The Truth may well be out there. Until such time as this is shown to be a naive and idealistic pipe dream, shall we assume it exists and not massage it in an attempt to create a warm and fuzzy lie of benevolent global brother-and sisterhood.

I do not call it "Political Correctness". I call it respect and understanding, what's the problem with being considerate?

Exactly and agree.

Centralised moral prescription doesn't even work in religion.

" If you have nothing good to say, rather say nothing." Simplistic, but if you absolutely have to be PC. ;D
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 10:40:19 AM by legro »

Offline ingenieus

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2020, 03:51:48 PM »
The beauty of Netflix is that they can provide content for a much broader audience. I'm a straight white guy, there's tons of content out there that ostensibly caters to me, personally I'm glad to see more diverse media properties making it to market. If it's not for you, don't watch it, nobody's taking away what you do like so long as there's an audience for it.

I'm not talking about "Orange is the new black."

There are many subtle PC things in content for said much broader audience.

Offline legro

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2020, 04:25:44 PM »
^ You are obviously paying attention.

Must say that political correctness hardly ever offends me, I just often find it false and misleading. I guess the fact that one is not anymore offended by false and misleading statements is just the " way of the world ".


Offline KenMasters

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2020, 05:04:43 PM »
I'm not talking about "Orange is the new black."

There are many subtle PC things in content for said much broader audience.

Perhaps the values of the broader audience are simply not as in line with your own as you might suppose? Could you give examples?

Offline Jason Willemse

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Political Correctness
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2020, 05:31:29 PM »
The longer this thread continues, the more I wonder what the f$!k I’m doing here.

Thought this was an audio thing.


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Offline ingenieus

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2020, 12:10:32 AM »
Perhaps the values of the broader audience are simply not as in line with your own as you might suppose? Could you give examples?

Here is a lengthy discussion on one of the PC tropes of modern entertainment.

https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/dear-feminist-hollywood-stop-trying-to-make-female-superheroes-a-thing/

Offline KenMasters

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2020, 07:54:52 AM »
Here is a lengthy discussion on one of the PC tropes of modern entertainment.

https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/dear-feminist-hollywood-stop-trying-to-make-female-superheroes-a-thing/

I don't like Crowder, he is not a pleasant person and I see no problem with female superheroes. If you're going to argue that it's forced and the movies are crap, are superhero movies with females held to a higher standard than male superhero flicks? Most of the recent DC superhero movies were poor, but I liked Wonder Woman.

More diverse representation in media is a good thing, comics themselves are plenty diverse and have been for a very long time, now that superheroes have taken over popular media, why not bring that diversity to the cinema? You think movie studios are releasing these movies because the have an agenda - you're right, it's making a profit.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 07:58:09 AM by KenMasters »

Offline Coenoes

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2020, 08:33:19 AM »
Crowder?
This is the only Crowder I listen to.

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Offline KenMasters

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2020, 09:55:57 AM »
Crowder?

I wasn't aware of him either until he achieved some internet notoriety for his ongoing racist and homophobic bullying of a member of the Vox team.

It's interesting that the people that complain about "political correctness" are the ones calling for certain things to be shut down. Seeing the providing of a broader range of content in an era where we have more content than ever before as somehow marginalising them. The lack of self-awareness is astonishing.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 10:03:40 AM by KenMasters »

Offline chrisc

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2020, 11:56:14 AM »
The longer this thread continues, the more I wonder what the f$!k I’m doing here.

Thought this was an audio thing.


Yes, it is primarily an audio forum.  But we do discuss other things besides.   If you look on MyBroadband, perhaps the most widely used forum in South Africa, they have a large section that deals with non-computing subjects
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Offline JonnyP

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2020, 08:41:05 PM »
I don't like Crowder, he is not a pleasant person and I see no problem with female superheroes. If you're going to argue that it's forced and the movies are crap, are superhero movies with females held to a higher standard than male superhero flicks? Most of the recent DC superhero movies were poor, but I liked Wonder Woman.

More diverse representation in media is a good thing, comics themselves are plenty diverse and have been for a very long time, now that superheroes have taken over popular media, why not bring that diversity to the cinema? You think movie studios are releasing these movies because the have an agenda - you're right, it's making a profit.

Wonder Woman was the best DC movie to date
Black Panther was pretty darn good
Avengers improved by including Black Panther and Valkyrie (I really would love a stand alone Valkyrie movie)

In the MCU the films have all been good though (except Iron Man 3 and Thor:Dark World)

Too many you tubers who think that living in their mom’s basement is somebody’s fault rather than them being useless.  Then they whine and rail against ‘PC’
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Offline legro

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2020, 09:13:52 PM »
Chloë Grace Moritz in Kick-Ass probably the greatest female anti superhero thus far.

Are we ever gonna move to stuff being either good or bad - no race, sex, ethnic group, religion etc etc etc being brought in as a qualifier?

Even if " the wise men/ women " tell us it should be?

Can it really be so difficult?

Offline Stanp

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2020, 05:02:28 AM »
On political correctness: I see myself as moderate. We have gone from Nazism to Antifa. Both the far left and far right are not good. Free speech has to exist in a healthy democracy. People should not be stopped from voicing their opinion.

Liberals have become too extreme. They advocate bringing children up gender neutral; I find this absurd. It has come about because in the past gays were persecuted. Gays should not be persecuted nor should there be a need for gay pride parades. It should be left to be. A persons sexuality is no one else's business.

Some believe Nationalism equals Nazism which is ridiculous. Universities push liberal Globalist ideology, so does Hollywood, Google, FB and Youtube. 

On climate change: It is scientifically proven and it is also logical that what we are doing to our planet is destructive. Over population is a problem. More people means more factories to produce more goods. There is a need for more food. Fresh water is becoming a problem. The biggest problems are caused by industrial, automotive and power station emissions.

Air pollution causes a green house effect. The Artic ice is melting due to this. Rivers are polluted. Soil erosion due to deforestation. If we persist we will cause irreversible damage. And yes, I think future generations will curse us.

Hopefully nuclear fusion will be able to become a reality and stop the destruction to our planet. We can't go anywhere else ; this is our only home.

Regarding "vegan nuts", you are mistaken. Vegans are generally very compassionate people. We are at the top of the food chain not from being nice, but by being vicious beasts. Animals are powerless, have no voice.  Vegans stand up for them. Do you think about where that nicely packaged meat comes from? From animals imprisoned only to be slaughtered. Ever seen the inside of a slaughter house? Do you think that a factory farm is kind? Do you think animals are automatons? Have no feelings? Don't understand the world around them? Puppy mills. Horse racing. Bull fighting. Factory farms; All disgusting. Animals have served us so well, yet we treat them so poorly