Author Topic: Political Correctness  (Read 2904 times)

Online Swindlehurstguy

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2020, 07:42:59 PM »
Glad I made someone smile LOL. Forgot to mention... and if you like cables, even expensive ones... say it, if others don’t agree or like them they need not buy them. They can use farm fence wire if they like, works for me!

Offline JonnyP

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2020, 09:41:14 PM »
Ah what the heck, I’ve held off getting involved here but am currently sheltering from the rain with a nice pint of ale.  Here goes:

‘It’s Political Correctness gone mad’ is a right wing/reactionary cover all for excusing things people say that they really mean which are unacceptable for example:

‘I made a joke about Greta the other day and was told it was disablist, it’s PC gone mad’.  Translation, I hate that there is a young girl with principles standing up for scientific theories which seem to be true so I laugh at her having Aspergers and use it to denigrate her.

‘It’s PC gone mad, I said we should ban all Muslims because they are terrorists and got grief on Twitter’.  Translation, I think anyone from the Middle East is a terrorist as I have no idea about their religion, but they have a beard.

People, be good to one another, and understand that denigrating someone for their beliefs (religious, scientific) is not cool.  Also, remember, we all come from the same ancestor
When the sun is dying, we'll cross the causeway of no memory.....

Offline goonchild

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2020, 10:09:56 PM »
An observation in the light of the ostensible nods to science that appeared earlier in this thread: without a (coherent) working definition of 'political correctness' nothing that is not solipsistic or idiocentric can be said about the concept. Definitionless, we cannot critically evaluate the output of the scientific community against the Holey Writ of the Piers Morgan, the Jeremy Clarkson, the Oil Industry etc.

Offline KenMasters

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2020, 11:16:26 AM »
Ah what the heck, I’ve held off getting involved here but am currently sheltering from the rain with a nice pint of ale.  Here goes:

‘It’s Political Correctness gone mad’ is a right wing/reactionary cover all for excusing things people say that they really mean which are unacceptable for example:

‘I made a joke about Greta the other day and was told it was disablist, it’s PC gone mad’.  Translation, I hate that there is a young girl with principles standing up for scientific theories which seem to be true so I laugh at her having Aspergers and use it to denigrate her.

‘It’s PC gone mad, I said we should ban all Muslims because they are terrorists and got grief on Twitter’.  Translation, I think anyone from the Middle East is a terrorist as I have no idea about their religion, but they have a beard.

People, be good to one another, and understand that denigrating someone for their beliefs (religious, scientific) is not cool.  Also, remember, we all come from the same ancestor


Offline Katji

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2020, 12:50:57 PM »
Ah what the heck, I’ve held off getting involved here but am currently sheltering from the rain with a nice pint of ale.
:dop:  In England?  - Post pics. 

Offline Music_Lover

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2020, 07:05:59 PM »
:dop:  In England?  - Post pics.
Durban.
Midrand

Offline Music_Lover

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2020, 07:12:16 PM »
Can anyone define 'Political Correctness'?

Is it only something practised by the liberal left?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 07:15:46 PM by Music_Lover »
Midrand

Offline Katji

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2020, 09:50:51 PM »
Quote
Can anyone define 'Political Correctness'?

Is it only something practised by the liberal left?
No.  It is applied, to some extent, by all authoritarian regimes, including the Abrahamic religions.  (...And also, some which are apparently/supposedly not authoritarian, like where negotiation and compromise and more subtle methods of politics are used, e.g. modern social democracy, like EU/EC.)

However, definition of "political correctness"...Try this - for "politically incorrect," the opposite:

heresy, heretical

noun: heresy
    belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious doctrine.
    "Smith was burned for heresy"

    opinion profoundly at odds with what is generally accepted.
    "the heresy of being uncommitted to the right political dogma"

(The key word there is "right", as in "correct."  Oh, there's another - dogma.)

Of course, the problem with the concept is who gets to judge, who will be the arbiters. 

Offline ingenieus

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2020, 09:53:56 PM »
There is a lot of PC around. A bugbear of mine how much of it there is to be found in Netflix series. Once you have seen it you cannot unsee it.

Offline legro

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2020, 10:37:50 PM »
" the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against."

Easily from the Net.

PC is a form of attempted social engineering, and like most such attempts, based on a lie and doomed to failure.

The key to this failure is highlighted above.

In short, if you need to consult the Political Correctness Manual to teach you respect for, understanding of, and kindness to others, don't bother.

You'll be wasting your time.


« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 10:44:15 PM by legro »

Offline goonchild

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2020, 12:24:32 AM »
Politics and society are rather like space and time: fused inseparably. All politics (whether left or right, forward or backward) is about social engineering, even if like Saint Madge of Thatcher one doesn't believe in the existence of societies.

The Encyclopaedia Britannica's basic entry on 'political correctness' (https://www.britannica.com/topic/political-correctness) provides a useful reminder of the term's origins in the efforts of Lenin's Communist Party to enforce adherence to the party line, efforts greatly expanded and deepened by Stalin. Groupthink, as Orwell called it, was and still is the point - regardless of political orientation. You will find such efforts to enforce orthodoxy (to widely varying degrees of enthusiasm) in every human organisation - particularly organisations claiming to be moved by or based on any kind of 'vision' or 'mission statement' or 'revelation'. This includes notably and comically the Republic Party of Trumpistan, not exactly a lefty pinko-commie-liberal enterprise, whose members daily abase and humiliate themselves in the hopes that their glorious leader will lift up his countenance upon them and give them political favour.

As JohnnyP implied, much of the whining against so-called 'political correctness' (not all of it, definition pending) seems to me to be little more than an attempt by complainants to create for themselves a discursive and 'intellectual', if that's the word, space beyond their ears in which they can 'legitimately' express or indulge in and thus impose their prejudices.

If 'political correctness' = 'the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against' = bad, is the 'correct' position that its opposite (i.e. the use of such forms of expression or action) must therefore be good? Were such a view to achieve critical hegemonic mass would it not itself constitute 'the' politically 'correct' position?

Offline dolt

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2020, 07:43:42 AM »
There is a lot of PC around. A bugbear of mine how much of it there is to be found in Netflix series. Once you have seen it you cannot unsee it.

+1
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Offline oradba69

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2020, 08:26:18 AM »
Saw this PC incorrect post on another bforum and thought about this thread.  :)

Kevin Myers (born 30 March 1947) is an Irish journalist and writer. He writes for the Irish edition of the Sunday Times, having previously been a columnist for the Irish Independent and a former contributor to The Irish Times, where he wrote the "An Irishman's Diary" opinion column several times weekly. Until 2005, he wrote for the UK Sunday Telegraph.
His articles criticise left-wing opinion and the "liberal consensus", sometimes incorporating hyperbole, sarcasm and parody.
This essay appeared in The Irish Independent:
Somalia is not a humanitarian disaster; it is an evolutionary disaster. The current drought is not the worst in 50 years, as the BBC and all the aid organisations claim.
It is nothing compared to the droughts in 1960/61 or 73/74.
And there are continuing droughts every 5 years or so.
It's just that there are now four times the population; having been kept alive by famine relief, supplied by aid organisations, over the past 50 years.
So, of course, the effects of any drought now, is a famine. They cannot even feed themselves in a normal rainfall year.
Worst yet, the effects of these droughts, and poor nutrition in the first 3 years of the a child's life, have a lasting effect on the development of the infant brain, so that if they survive, they will never achieve a normal IQ .
Consequently, they are selectively breeding a population who cannot be educated, let alone one that is not being educated; a recipe for disaster.
We are seeing this impact now, and it can only exacerbate, to the detriment of their neighbours, and their environment as well. This scenario can only end in an even worse disaster; with even worse suffering, for those
benighted people, and their descendants.
Eventually, some mechanism will intervene, be it war, disease or starvation.
So what do we do? Let them starve?
What a dilemma for our Judeo/Christian/Islamic Ethos; as well as Hindu/Buddhist morality.
And this is beginning to happen in Kenya, Ethiopia and other countries in Asia, like Pakistan.
Is this the beginning of the end of civilisation?
AFRICA is giving nothing to anyone outside Africa -- apart from AIDS and new diseases.
Even as we see African states refusing to take action to restore something resembling civilisation
in Zimbabwe, the Begging bowl for Ethiopia is being passed around to us out of Africa, yet again.
It is nearly 25 years since the famous Feed The World campaign began in Ethiopia, and in that time
Ethiopia's population has grown from 33.5 million to 78+ million today.
So, why on earth should I do anything to encourage further catastrophic demographic growth in that country?
Where is the logic? There is none.
To be sure, there are two things saying that logic doesn't count.
One is my conscience, and the other is the picture, yet again, of another wide-eyed child, yet again, gazing,
yet again, at the camera, which yet again, captures the tragedy of children starving.
Sorry. My conscience has toured this territory on foot and financially.
Unlike most of you, I have been to Ethiopia; like most of you, I have stumped up the loot
to charities to stop starvation there.
The wide-eyed boy-child we saved, 20 years or so ago, is now a low IQ, AK 47-bearing moron,
siring children whenever the whim takes him and blaming the world because he is uneducated, poor and left behind.
There is no doubt a good argument why we should prolong this predatory and dysfunctional economic,social and sexual system but I do not know what it is.
There is, on the other hand, every reason not to write a column like this.
It will win no friends and will provoke the self-righteous wrath of, well, the self-righteous hand wringing,letter writing wrathful individuals; a species which never fails to contaminate almost every debate in Irish life with its sneers and its moral superiority. It will also probably enrage some of the finest men in Irish life, like John O'Shea, of Goal; and the Finucane brothers, men whom I admire enormously.
So be it.
But, please, please, you self-righteously wrathful, spare me mention of our own Irish Famine, with this or that lazy analogy.
There is no comparison.
Within 20 years of the Famine, the Irish population was down by 30%. Over the equivalent period, thanks to
western food, the Mercedes 10-wheel truck and the Lockheed Hercules plane, Ethiopia's population has more than doubled.
Alas, that wretched country is not alone in its madness.
Somewhere, over the rainbow, lies Somalia, another fine land of violent, AK 47-toting, khat-chewing,
girl-circumcising, permanently tumescent layabouts and housing pirates of the ocean.
Indeed, we now have almost an entire continent of sexually hyperactive, illiterate indigents, with tens of
millions of people who only survive because of help from the outside world or allowances by the
semi-communist Governments they voted for, money supplied by borrowing it from the World Bank!
This dependency has not stimulated political prudence or common sense.
Indeed, voodoo idiocy seems to be in the ascendant, with the president of South Africa being a firm believer in
the efficacy of a little tap water on the post-coital wee-wee as a sure preventative against AIDS infection.
Needless to say, poverty, hunger and societal meltdown have not prevented idiotic wars involving Tigre,
Uganda, Congo, Sudan, Somalia, Eritrea etcetera.
Broad brush-strokes, to be sure.
But broad brush-strokes are often the way that history paints its gaudier, if more decisive, chapters.
Japan, China, Russia, Korea, Poland, Germany, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia in the 20th century have
endured worse broad brush-strokes than almost any part of Africa. They are now -- one way or another -- virtually all giving aid to or investing in Africa, whereas Africa, with its vast savannah’s and its lush pastures, is giving almost nothing to anyone, apart from AIDS.
Meanwhile, Africa's peoples are outstripping their resources and causing catastrophic ecological degradation.
By 2050, the population of Ethiopia will be 177 million; the equivalent of France, Germany and Benelux today,
but located on the parched and increasingly Protein-free wastelands of the Great Rift Valley.
So, how much sense does it make for us actively to increase the adult population of what is already a vastly
over-populated, environmentally devastated and economically dependent country?
How much morality is there in saving an Ethiopian child from starvation today, for it to survive to a life of brutal circumcision, poverty, hunger, violence and sexual abuse, resulting in another half-dozen such wide-eyed children, with comparably jolly little lives ahead of them?
Of course, it might make you feel better, which is a prime reason for so much charity!
But that is not good enough.
For self-serving generosity has been one of the curses of Africa. It has sustained political systems which would otherwise have collapsed.
It prolonged the Eritrean-Ethiopian war by nearly a decade.
It is inspiring Bill Gates' programme to rid the continent of malaria, when, in the almost complete absence of personal self-discipline, that disease is one of the most efficacious forms of population-control now operating.
If his programme is successful, tens of millions of children who would otherwise have died in infancy
will survive to adulthood, he boasts.
Oh good: then what? I know, let them all come here.
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Offline Timber_MG

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2020, 08:41:28 AM »
Goon, if that boolean inversion is your sincere take on that argument then the cognitive dissonance you exhibit around side stepping the biggest lessons of the past 200 years in Gedankenwerk around societal change are not surprising. A moral standard "trying to do good" has seen the backside of enough people in the last century and a bit and it's apparent that expending effort in couching this any exact manner for you is a waste.

Most human endeavour is to be taken as someone acting in good faith. However the "moral" stance these days is less frequently tied to people's actions. It's too often degenerated to little more than a virtue signal aligned to some zeitgeist/moving goal of some societal influence, whatever one may fix one's gaze onto ... and that is quite fickle in this fast advancing age with accepted standard of behaviour today may loose you your job next year. Cui bono?

The authoritarian aspect of it: if a simple working guy has to fear for his job for a single uncautious mistake how far away is one from a Moscow show trial or a NSDAP rally or a struggle session?

The lessons of Lenin and co and what ideological nonsense fought it out in Weimar Germany and what followed gave Mr Orwell, Huxley enough relevance to become standard school reading...and so it should stay. Sad how little is leaned.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 08:44:10 AM by Timber_MG »

Offline KenMasters

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2020, 03:40:40 PM »
There is a lot of PC around. A bugbear of mine how much of it there is to be found in Netflix series. Once you have seen it you cannot unsee it.

The beauty of Netflix is that they can provide content for a much broader audience. I'm a straight white guy, there's tons of content out there that ostensibly caters to me, personally I'm glad to see more diverse media properties making it to market. If it's not for you, don't watch it, nobody's taking away what you do like so long as there's an audience for it.