Author Topic: Political Correctness  (Read 2863 times)

Offline Timber_MG

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2020, 11:06:15 PM »
A reasoned, rational person

You can infer whatever you like (we likely don't even know each others positions and are speaking past one another in a forum that likely doesn't concern itself much with the topic). Without getting into any specifics one assumes that this is just an internet post >>null.

I will ask one question that I have not been able to answer for myself satisfactorily yet and leave it at that: What precisely gives one confidence that CO2 concentrations at current and projected levels, if they are curtailed (if that is even possible without tyranny is another question), will have a worthwhile effect on society by means of projecting global temperature change? Meaning I am asking on what foundation should I prioritise (say no to other things) whether I recycle, conserve water, invest in electrical energy efficiency (embodies CO2 in replacement parts), reduced hydrocarbon emissions, take moral stances on my food sources, surveil for safety, etc...?

I see far greater benefits to my imminent environment that I can quantify at this stage so I am focussing my energy on those that have a deterministic benefits on my family and my neighbourhood. Reducing CO2 emissions to pre-industrial levels to my mind doesn't feature on the same scale. You make big claims about moral outrage I might be subject to for not accepting the position wholesale, what specifically is it that gives you the confidence that you are likely to be right and that this change is achievable?

Offline goonchild

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2020, 12:33:51 AM »
I am strangely reminded of an acquaintance who once (ironically, I thought, in the light of other views he has expressed) made the extremely sceptical and empiricist statement that he would 'believe in' the theory of evolution the day he saw a monkey give birth to a human.

Online KenMasters

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2020, 07:37:08 AM »
I will ask one question that I have not been able to answer for myself satisfactorily yet and leave it at that: What precisely gives one confidence that CO2 concentrations at current and projected levels, if they are curtailed (if that is even possible without tyranny is another question), will have a worthwhile effect on society by means of projecting global temperature change? Meaning I am asking on what foundation should I prioritise (say no to other things) whether I recycle, conserve water, invest in electrical energy efficiency (embodies CO2 in replacement parts), reduced hydrocarbon emissions, take moral stances on my food sources, surveil for safety, etc...?

I see far greater benefits to my imminent environment that I can quantify at this stage so I am focussing my energy on those that have a deterministic benefits on my family and my neighbourhood. Reducing CO2 emissions to pre-industrial levels to my mind doesn't feature on the same scale. You make big claims about moral outrage I might be subject to for not accepting the position wholesale, what specifically is it that gives you the confidence that you are likely to be right and that this change is achievable?

As individuals there is not much we can do, this is true, what we need is for us as to stand together on this as a society, to show our leaders we want change, to support products and initiatives aimed at curbing CO2 emissions, for us all to do our part when and where we can. A kilo of veg produces around 1 kg of CO2, whereas beef produces around 20 kg CO2 per kilo - reducing meat intake and being willing to spend more on the meat you do buy to encourage the sort of cattle raising practices you were discussing earlier.  Walk when you can, there are lots of little things we can all do to reduce our footprint which if we all pull together will have an impact.

At the end of the day, it's our collective will as a society to make this happen that will make the difference. So long as you have people that believe it's all up for debate you're going to have leaders who'll ignore the issue in favour of the wrong sorts of industries. We are on our way to inflicting irreversible changes to our climate systems, but we're not there yet, if we can slow the rate of climate change my personal hope is that we'll be able to invent our way out of this, that technology will be the solution, we just need to buy ourselves enough time.

I'll leave you with this:

There is a bright side

Global decarbonization has accelerated since 2010 and may be on course to keep global warming to 2 degrees C, says a new report to be published in Environmental Research Letters on Dec 2. While overall carbon emissions have increased, the decarbonization has kept the increase low and is ready to push emissions into a decline.

Large decarbonization gains from energy efficiency and modern renewable heat, along with solar and wind, are making it possible to reach the Paris climate goals “if we take aggressive actions across all sectors of the economy,” says study co-author Daniel Kammen, a professor of energy at the University of California, Berkeley in a release.

There are also social tipping points, says Gaffney, including an economic tipping point where the price of renewable energy is dropping below fossil fuels in market after market. “The prices for renewables keep falling and performance is improving. This is an unbeatable combination.”

More and more countries such as the United Kingdom have reached a political tipping point and adopted 2050 net zero carbon targets. “There is now confidence it is achievable and affordable,” he said.

And in the United States, candidates for the 2020 presidential elections are putting out ambitious climate action plans.

Over the last 12 months a broad societal awareness tipping point appears to have been reached—the Greta Thunberg effect—with millions of young student strikers and many others demanding urgent climate action, he says. At the same time, more and more finance companies, businesses, and cities are adopting tough climate targets.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2019/11/earth-tipping-point/

Offline legro

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2020, 08:40:11 AM »
I am strangely reminded of an acquaintance who once (ironically, I thought, in the light of other views he has expressed) made the extremely sceptical and empiricist statement that he would 'believe in' the theory of evolution the day he saw a monkey give birth to a human.

One wonders if your acquaintance would be convinced by witnessing the reverse.

That seems to be the way we're going.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 08:42:48 AM by legro »

Offline Crankshaft

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2020, 10:35:21 AM »
Any flat-earth folk here?

Offline Jason Willemse

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2020, 10:47:39 AM »
Any flat-earth folk here?
Plenty it seems...


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Offline dolt

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2020, 01:47:25 PM »
it seems that in the quest of cross cultural diplomacy, the lines between political correctness and censorship are becoming more and more blurred. I think this is largely due to the general trend of enforced political correctness where non-conformity is a punishable offence.

A case that trended a few years ago about a Canadian university professor that refused to be forced (mandated) to mind his pronouns among certain types of individuals. His position was that he had no issue with being requested to use a specific pronoun by any individual when communicating with them. however, mandating the use of such pronouns, and criminalizing any perceived erroneous use is a serious problem. i.e. the enforcement of political correctness.

fantastic thing about the internet, one can find anything to justify their opinion. The leading search engines employ algorithms to link you to related media once you've encountered something. Hence the rabbit hole into echo chambers. I speak as a person of lesser intelligence than most, but what I have found is that the leading search engines definitely have a left leaning bias, hence the suggested media is almost always left leaning or justifying. So those with partiality to such an affiliation will be sent very quickly into a rabbit hole. However those veering onto the conservative side will be constantly bombarded with irrelevant media that the platforms bias is forcing on its users. I find this is true with an issue such as climate change. it seems most arguments for and against have more to do with american politics than science.

I first encountered the idea of global warming about 30 odd years ago... that time of course it was differently branded with different brand ambassadors. It seems to re brand every decade. from "the greenhouse effect and ozone depletion" and public enemy number 1 being CFC's to "global warming" with al gore and other celebrities and a war against carbon monoxide, and now to "climate change" with a person from a country with the most unsustainable lifestyles on the planet. And now CO2 is the new public enemy.  I don't know what to believe, but anyway, heres a fun video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGqcweY1a3I


Of course the earth is flat!! Haven't you heard of lens distortion?... All the flat pictures from space are made to look round by the lens! This can be proven quite easily with some rudimentary mathematics lifted of the wikipedia!!

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Online KenMasters

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2020, 02:11:57 PM »
I speak as a person of lesser intelligence than most, but what I have found is that the leading search engines definitely have a left leaning bias, hence the suggested media is almost always left leaning or justifying. So those with partiality to such an affiliation will be sent very quickly into a rabbit hole. However those veering onto the conservative side will be constantly bombarded with irrelevant media that the platforms bias is forcing on its users. I find this is true with an issue such as climate change. it seems most arguments for and against have more to do with american politics than science.

Do you feel it's biased because you can't seem to Google salient arguments in opposition? While short sighted politicians and their wealthy corporate benefactors might have lead you to believe otherwise, this has little to do with right or left leanings - climate change is a fact, not a he said, she said argument.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 02:15:29 PM by KenMasters »

Offline Katji

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2020, 02:39:43 PM »
Any flat-earth folk here?
No, but there are plenty who do not quite accept the science/physics of electricity.

Offline dolt

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2020, 03:19:38 PM »
Do you feel it's biased because you can't seem to Google salient arguments in opposition? While short sighted politicians and their wealthy corporate benefactors might have lead you to believe otherwise, this has little to do with right or left leanings - climate change is a fact, not a he said, she said argument.

Actually yes, there are several publicized instances of conservative media and channels being suppressed by youtube. Google searches for specific channels, word for word provide the relevant link after the fifth suggestion or so. The most recent one that comes to mind is Steven Crowder. Twitter is also quite famous for this, like when vox, buzzfeed and huffpost "journalists" were allegedly dog-piled with the #learntocode handle, or when Milo got his account banned. I suspect that climate change hysteria is not much more than a lobbying point between the dems and the conservatives.

From what I understood, the argument against climate change is not that it is non existent, but that it is highly exaggerated by its proponents. It doesn't seem implausible that this can be an attempt to sway public opinion with mass hysteria and panic in order to further a political or financial position... why is there so much of hype just before an election?  They do the same thing with feminisms and the mythical wage gap, so why not with the weather? They already think air conditioning is sexist.


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Offline DRNB

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2020, 03:27:48 PM »

A case that trended a few years ago about a Canadian university professor that refused to be forced (mandated) to mind his pronouns among certain types of individuals. His position was that he had no issue with being requested to use a specific pronoun by any individual when communicating with them. however, mandating the use of such pronouns, and criminalizing any perceived erroneous use is a serious problem. i.e. the enforcement of political correctness.

The professor you're talking about is Jordan Petersen. Although I don't always agree 100% with JP I just love watching debates and interviews with him.

And just for interest sake, this is what the same guy has to say about climate change.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBbvehbomrY&t=37s

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Offline dolt

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2020, 03:38:21 PM »
The professor you're talking about is Jordan Petersen. Although I don't always agree 100% with JP I just love watching debates and interviews with him.

And just for interest sake, this is what the same guy has to say about climate change.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBbvehbomrY&t=37s

I read one of his books last year. His viewpoints and arguments are all primarily from that of the western perspective. I've seen lectures of him discussing eastern philosophy and displaying hilarious levels of ignorance. But I do quite enjoy listening to his lectures though.
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Online KenMasters

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2020, 06:09:19 PM »
Actually yes, there are several publicized instances of conservative media and channels being suppressed by youtube. Google searches for specific channels, word for word provide the relevant link after the fifth suggestion or so. The most recent one that comes to mind is Steven Crowder. Twitter is also quite famous for this, like when vox, buzzfeed and huffpost "journalists" were allegedly dog-piled with the #learntocode handle, or when Milo got his account banned. I suspect that climate change hysteria is not much more than a lobbying point between the dems and the conservatives.

From what I understood, the argument against climate change is not that it is non existent, but that it is highly exaggerated by its proponents. It doesn't seem implausible that this can be an attempt to sway public opinion with mass hysteria and panic in order to further a political or financial position... why is there so much of hype just before an election?  They do the same thing with feminisms and the mythical wage gap, so why not with the weather? They already think air conditioning is sexist.

Ah, you are one of those. Carry on.

Offline Swindlehurstguy

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2020, 06:35:06 PM »
I am opposed to being PC. The truth is often hidden by those who choose to be PC. We would rather everyone says that we are nice people because we are so very PC, in reality, we are just being deceptive. Even this forum perpetuates this mindset. We avoid discussing sensitive issues, politics and religion, why? Because people will upset each other? So we make even more rules just in case people get pissed with each other. It’s fake, I tell you. Not everyone here is NOT perfect. I found that out quite early on when I had a qualified architect from this forum not deliver on what I paid for, no better than a common criminal. Being PC is just societies way of preventing people from saying what they actually think...so if you are too busy being PC why not ask yourself what you really think... and say it, some here and puke be very surprised at how liberating it is to say what you think. BTW. If you think I’m a twit, opinionated or anything else for saying this, post it, just my opinion after all and many of you may well disagree.😜

Offline Katji

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Re: Political Correctness
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2020, 06:45:40 PM »
 :giggle: