Author Topic: importance of Clean power  (Read 1428 times)

Offline DACMan1

Re: importance of Clean power
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2019, 02:30:28 PM »
There are several theories for this, but the one I find the most plausible is that the analog stages of the USB physical layer contain significant DSP for equalization, echo cancellation etc.
Reference? Which USB Phy's are doing DSP, at least anything more than pre-emphasis? (USB 2)

Offline Greasemonkey

Re: importance of Clean power
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2019, 03:01:46 PM »
This really is small change compared to the packet processing overhead involved with usb.

Online pwatts

Re: importance of Clean power
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2019, 03:29:36 PM »
Reference? Which USB Phy's are doing DSP, at least anything more than pre-emphasis? (USB 2)

That's correct, EQ is only used on USB3 - should stop doing forum posts at work ;)

Offline scrarfussi

Re: importance of Clean power
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2019, 05:05:50 PM »
Clearly you didnít follow the logic, why if the usb isolation is 100% effective would cleaner power on the nuc make a difference? If it iis 100% whatever noise there is on the nuc side would not matter and a battery or power supply  would sound identical.

In theory yes it shouldn't make a difference. But well it does make a difference
a simple 12v  alarm battery Plug in and try it .  If it sounds good great, If not well !!
suum cuique pulchrum est


"Then Said my heart here will i take my rest."

Offline chrisc

  • Trade Count: (+140)
  • AVForums Grandmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,063
  • Total likes: 514
  • Cape Town Hi-Fi Club - get better sound
Re: importance of Clean power
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2019, 05:10:20 PM »
There is an expensive product called Entreq Grounding box which is highly thought of by up-market audiophiles.  Certainly on the Devialet Chat forum, they rave over it

I have read a type of DIY version.  You bend a strip of aluminium (or silver or silver-plated copper) more or less in the shape of a kettle element and insert this into some (secret) granulated, conductive medium

This is the real thing.  Then read the blurb below the picture (from the factory)




Why use our Ground Box's ?

You will get an improvement in dynamic's, a lower noise floor and more natural flow in the sound.

For us a clean and effective ground point is one of the most important factor's in ensuring the best possible sonic platform for any hifi system!
We normally say 220V 50Hz alternative110 V 60Hz. But in our opinion there are a lot more frequence on the power net. These is caused by the way we connect zero and protective ground together in the main central/fuse boxes.Most things these days run on electricity. Current goes in and current goes out of devices and lighting fixtures of every kind. All of these make the current messy. Not least computers with their switched power units, chargers for e.g., mobile telephones, all the halogen and LED lighting, dimmers etc. all cause a great deal of high-frequency noise and stay voltages. This noise always seeks the easiest path to the earth. And since this can be everything from 50-60 Hz to very high-frequency, but weak, currents, it is not always certain that the path of least resistance is via the protective earth. These currents instead can find dishwashers, laundry machines, counter tops with water pipes, your HiFi rack and your stereo set with all the cables and devices as more attractive paths to the earth. Moreover, these stay voltages often generate very large magnetic fields that absolutely have influence on the sound reproduction.
One big problem is that the protective ground many time are overloaded or not constructed for handle this pollutions. It can handle a real "bang" of 110-220Volt and X  Watts without any problems, but when it come to this small currents of some Milli V  with very high frequence it dont catch them. So instead these will flow arround in the power system searching for a place to ground. And in fact the protective grond can leak back a lot of pollutions to the power net that instead go to f,ex your HiFi system with all the cables and magnetic fields and load up and rest there in their serch for ground.Our ground boxes / Eartha cables are designed to resemble and work like a bit of Mother Earth in concentrated form and offer the simplest and fastest route for this high-frequency noise to reach a earth point. Since such are very high-frequency weak currents, it is not necessary to have a lot of mass;  but it is important that the cables are optimized for these high frequency and the groundbox be a purely attractive earth point.The construction and choice of materials in the earth box has a crucial effect on the result. In part, the minerals and metals involved have an effect, but the relationship of proportion and distance between them also affects the result.

When you connect your system to one of our groundboxes you offer this high frequence stay voltages a ground point where they can find peace instead of flowing arround in the system.

The Tellus line with Minimus, Silver Minimus, Tellus II and Silver Tellus are all based on the mineral/metal mix we developed for nearly ten years ago. This boxes are still in the forefront comparing to many other new brands.
When you read tests and reviews itīs always this boxes they use as reference. The first boxes we introduce on market.Today we would say that this boxes in the Tellus line are our entrylevel.
[/color]
Music is the shorthand of emotion

Offline scrarfussi

suum cuique pulchrum est


"Then Said my heart here will i take my rest."

Offline chrisc

  • Trade Count: (+140)
  • AVForums Grandmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,063
  • Total likes: 514
  • Cape Town Hi-Fi Club - get better sound
Re: importance of Clean power
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2019, 05:43:00 PM »
I should not have read that article at mojo-audio.  It makes me think that I may have spent all this money in vain.   However, the Apple Magsafe PSU is a well-designed piece of kit and its a good start to the computer (IMHO of course)

However, it does sound great to me and I could never stray from computer audio.
Music is the shorthand of emotion

Offline Katji

Re: importance of Clean power
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2019, 06:14:09 PM »
Quote
There is an expensive product called Entreq Grounding box which is highly thought of by up-market audiophiles.  Certainly on the Devialet Chat forum, they rave over it

Yes, well, when Gerlach said "His got some really magic stuff there. Even the earth setup on his audio setup is something to check out", I just knew it was one of those things.
Then I thought, again, that about half the population believes in magic, and that lightning strikes one house and not another because of witchcraft, magic, and there is special muti to protect your house from it...  :sh1tstirrer: ...and how that all fits together, in terms of social demographics and so on. ...Never mind "snake oil," that's just the tip of the iceberg.

A few years ago, some Fb group, I saw photos of an Entreq earthing box thing taken apart. Mainly because it is some sort of earthing device, yet it is very expensive, even considering the fancy hardwood box.
Then, along with that, there was a Vietnam high-end hi-fi vendor marketing his stuff...his version of the Entreq boxes, and some little stickers to put on component cases, and even on electronic components inside - little stickers with a special design printed on them.  ...Magic. Not even pseudo-science. I thought it was a joke but it turned out he was actually serious. 

Entreq...credibility seriously lowered because they did this:
Quote
Why use our Ground Box's ?

You will get an improvement in dynamic's,
:roll:  :nono: 

It's all good, sounds credible - except perhaps to experts - but then when it comes to the special crystals mixed into the earth stuff, the bs dectector / the snake-oil detector starts pinging.

However, I my understanding of electricity is very superficial, very sketchy, so I submit to the authority of science and to elec engineers. Like with medical issues. When I had lymphoma, I accepted the authority of the oncologist, the chemotherapy, rather than the people telling me to drink hydrogen peroxide and so on.

Offline Greasemonkey

Re: importance of Clean power
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2019, 10:00:49 PM »
Holy crap, I wonder if smoking those crystals will expand your mind... Seems a lot like AJ vand der Hulís magnetic bracelets that cure all illness.

Offline chrisc

  • Trade Count: (+140)
  • AVForums Grandmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,063
  • Total likes: 514
  • Cape Town Hi-Fi Club - get better sound
Re: importance of Clean power
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2019, 09:50:14 AM »
... those white "crystals" in the Entreq box could just as well be methemphatamine.   Just saying

Music is the shorthand of emotion

Offline DACMan1

Re: importance of Clean power
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2019, 09:55:30 AM »
Most effective solution:

Offline chrisc

  • Trade Count: (+140)
  • AVForums Grandmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,063
  • Total likes: 514
  • Cape Town Hi-Fi Club - get better sound
Re: importance of Clean power
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2019, 09:56:23 AM »
At the Ultra Liquor store in Wynberg, they employ a chatty Italian gent to talk you into buying a particular variety of wine they are trying to promote.   I saw him once with a roll of stickers in his hand, applying a few to some bottles he wanted to move

Maybe he is a connoisseur, I don't know

Music is the shorthand of emotion

Offline ScottulusMaximus

Re: importance of Clean power
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2019, 12:15:30 PM »
https://www.mojo-audio.com/blog/computer-audio-misconceptions/

States up front:

Quote
This is a perfect example of why I sincerely recommend you view the claims of companies that sell music player software (and anything else in the audiophile industry) as "marketing language" as opposed to quantifiable facts.

And then proceeds to riddle the article with nonsense like this:

Quote
the result is more liquid and articulate sound, combined with greater depth, detail, and dynamics.

asynchronous USB results in more liquid, more resolving, and more musical sound

The higher the efficiency of the CPU the lower the noise and the more liquid, harmonic, and musical the server sounds.

Ah well this explains the drivel, don't listen to other salesman but listen to me!

Quote
But what sets our Illuminati series of power supplies apart from nearly every ultra-low noise power supply

For even higher performance, you could audition one of Mojo Audioís ultralow-noise ultra-high dynamic linear power supplies, Mac Mini upgrades, or music servers. Of course, one advantage of going with Mojo Audio's products is that with our 45-day no-risk audition , you have nothing to lose but your misconceptions.

Benjamin Zwickel
Owner, Mojo Audio

As for the below, Benjamin, you're a !@#$ing idiot... So you're telling me my PC can load and render an entire 3D graphics frame 120 times a second with not one pixel out of place at 11Gbs with 5.1 surround sound but power supply noise is going to get in the way of a 1411 kbps audio file...

Quote
significantly slows computer performance resulting in a more awkward and less liquid presentation.

Batteries also have much slower dynamic response than linear power supplies, so they don't respond as quickly to changes in current requirements.

But in music transfer the data stream is clocked to the speed of the music, which means if a corrected packet of data is not received in time, the device will often pass on corrupted data.

Most audiophile player software uses only one core in a CPU. Having multiple cores in the CPU that are unused also causes additional noise and degrades performance.

Add anti-resonant sheeting inside your computer, converter, and storage drive chassis.

the correct type of HDD is one that is optimized for 24/7 audio video performance. These AV optimized drives are used in professional surveillance and audio/video recording studio systems because unlike normal HDDs, they don't stop every 10 minutes or so to self-calibrate. Though not audible most of the time, when the self-calibration mode in a normal HDD takes place, data drop-outs and audible time shifts occur.

And there's more but the stupid gave me a headache.

Offline Greasemonkey

Re: importance of Clean power
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2019, 06:28:54 PM »
Yes, agreed. There is a lot of nonsense out there usb is usb and digital is digital. What may be the case though is that noise coming through from a computer interferes mostly with the clock in a dac which is very sensitive because this is the point at which digital becomes analog. Before that point noise is irrelevant and I think there is a lot of drivel being marketed. Have a look at audiosciencereview, there are indeed measurable differences between various usb isolators.

Offline Katji

Re: importance of Clean power
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2019, 06:37:32 PM »
Something I read and noted, that laptop power supplies are generally quieter than desktop/server power supply units. 
If that can be measured, easily enough, it could be helpful. Like which laptop brands and which power supply units would be more likely to be quieter.