Author Topic: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations  (Read 9866 times)

Offline Crankshaft

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Re: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2019, 08:49:16 AM »
@Crankshaft what is the price on them? And what size inverter?

I can get them at R2215 each (incl. VAT).

My new, still in the box, inverter is a Victron MultiPlus-II 48 volt 3000 watt.

The previous inverter (now fried!) was a Xantrex 1000wat MSW unit.  I had 3 x 12 volt lead-calcium batteries in parallel.

Now that I need 48 volts, I must get 4 new batteries as adding a forth new one to older three is, apparently not a good idea.

I have also been eyeing-out the lithium-ion batteries from PylonTech.
There is a very nice 3.6kW 48 volt rack-mount unit that one can pick up for R20,000.

Li-Ion batteries can be discharged much deeper (80%) compared to lead-acid (30%) so a smaller capacity Lithium battery can deliver more power that a larger lead-acid setup.
My concern (apart from the price!) is that lithium batteries don't like being kept on float for extended periods, but prefer to be cycled daily.

BTW, I'm also quite new to all of this.


Offline Gerlach

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Re: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2019, 01:08:32 PM »
I have had very poor results from lead-acid batteries, both flooded and gel type batteries

Today I went to see a house in Kommetjie which has the same size inverter as I do and also 8 Pv panels.  But he uses 1 x 200 a/h 24 volt lithium ion battery.  When the 2 1/2 hour load shedding starts, it provides 320 watts of power for the full period, whereas unless I reduce the load to under 100 watts, it cuts off after 45 mins, and if I try 200 watts, I get 20 mins.  I am using 8 x 105 a/h batteries.   I did a test today and disconnected the incoming AC and also the PV panels.  The battery voltage started off at 26.3 VDC.  Within 5 mins it was down to 25 VDC and within 20 mins, down to 23.8 VDC.   There was a 180 watt load which I made by switching on a computer and some lights.  The inverter cuts off at 21.5 VDC

So that is what I am looking for right now.  I have seen prices from R8000 to R18000 so need to do more homework.

The one it was suggested I look at is the Lithium Ion Life PO4 battery.  It has a 10 year guarantee and can be discharged to a lower level than a lead-acid.

I spoke to the guys at Rubicon the other day while buying cable and Massive 160amp fuses and fuse holder, YES, it missive fuses to connect between the inverter and batteries.




The person that help me gave me more info on the Life YP04 batteries. They come with a 10 year guarantee and a lifespan of about 15years, that is actually really good. The price one Blue Nova 4kw 48VDC is about R34810. There is cheaper one's out there to, just need to check a round. On the PowerForum the guys give a lot of info on this stuff and some of them are using it.

@chrisc what I have found out, and can check on that forum, is the guys talks allot about battery balancing. There is some stuff that you can buy from Victron and from China,  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/battery-equalizer-battery-balancer-for-4pcs-12V-battery-connected-in-series-for-48V-battery-system-solar/32832757222.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.275.4ca35151IaPp4S&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_7_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10307_537_536_10902,searchweb201603_54,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=9d9b62db-0231-45c2-b5b1-32e835eae9e6-43&algo_pvid=9d9b62db-0231-45c2-b5b1-32e835eae9e6 , what you connect between you batteries and what this do is, it balance the power out between you batteries when it is charging. So at the end of the day if you are charging say at 13.65 volts all 8 batteries "balk charging", and some of the batteries volt's isn't the same, then this unit will move some of the power of to that batteries that needs it, till all the batteries are on the same volts, and the same when you using the batteries to.

They guys can't stop talking about this. Another thing that i pick up between them that is imported is to get the rite floating charger for your batteries. I'm using this batteries in my setup  https://www.power-solutions.com/batteries/enersys/enersys-powersafe-v-batteries/12v190f . Last night for 3 hours running lights and led tv and laptop consuming about just under 300 watts I had a drop of about 0.10v in in my capacity of batteries. I still need to get my self a balancer to connect up all 4 batteries to get them correct in balance when charging and in use because I still get a difference volts in charging in my batteries.

Then a other thing that I have found out, You need to Pulse/equalize your batteries every 29 days to get plates clean to prolong the lifetime of your batteries. Some of your inverters you get have a setting in it that you can set for it.

Then a big main thing, your cables between you batteries must be the same size and same length.
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It's really fun to scare people. (Sabine Schmitz 14.05.1969 - 15.03.2021) RIP

Offline Gerlach

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Re: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2019, 01:15:22 PM »
I can get them at R2215 each (incl. VAT).

My new, still in the box, inverter is a Victron MultiPlus-II 48 volt 3000 watt.

The previous inverter (now fried!) was a Xantrex 1000wat MSW unit.  I had 3 x 12 volt lead-calcium batteries in parallel.

Now that I need 48 volts, I must get 4 new batteries as adding a forth new one to older three is, apparently not a good idea.

I have also been eyeing-out the lithium-ion batteries from PylonTech.
There is a very nice 3.6kW 48 volt rack-mount unit that one can pick up for R20,000.

Li-Ion batteries can be discharged much deeper (80%) compared to lead-acid (30%) so a smaller capacity Lithium battery can deliver more power that a larger lead-acid setup.
My concern (apart from the price!) is that lithium batteries don't like being kept on float for extended periods, but prefer to be cycled daily.

BTW, I'm also quite new to all of this.

AAAa nice!! Victron, someone went over to the blue side. That is really good units and what nice is about them is, is that you can replace the parts in it. Jip, not a good thing to add a new battery between old ones because the the old ones pull a lot of power out of the new one killing it fast.

The other option is go for Trojan 2 volt batteries that you need to build up 48 volt bank, jip, it will cost you a lot but that batteries is rated at 540amps a battery, so that is some big power you can build up with, but space is the problem. I think lithium-ion batteries is the way to. I nearly pulled the trigger on one. Just check where you buy because there is some dodgy place out there. One guy on that forum was nearly taken for a gat buy one place. go check there.
Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows. (Walter Röhrl)

It's really fun to scare people. (Sabine Schmitz 14.05.1969 - 15.03.2021) RIP

Offline Gerlach

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Re: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2019, 01:24:25 PM »
OOOOO yes!! some inverter solar porn!!  :tongue: pop in by one of our Bellville Dept last Friday, and check there setup. Solar and wind. 70kw in inverter power between everything.





72 x 200 amp Victron batteries.




Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows. (Walter Röhrl)

It's really fun to scare people. (Sabine Schmitz 14.05.1969 - 15.03.2021) RIP

Offline Crankshaft

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Re: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2019, 01:57:37 PM »
Those EnerSys batteries look good.
Where the best place (price) to get them in the Cape?


Offline Gerlach

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Re: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2019, 02:16:21 PM »
Those EnerSys batteries look good.
Where the best place (price) to get them in the Cape?

I got mine from person that had them as a spare/backup set while he was using other batteries in his setup. They where kept on solar charge and cycle like 3 times. His got a big solar inverter setup with like 6 sets of 48volt batteries setup. It was just with luck that I have found them. There is some places that sell them and other brands to. Will like to get another set like this for my setup.
Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows. (Walter Röhrl)

It's really fun to scare people. (Sabine Schmitz 14.05.1969 - 15.03.2021) RIP

Offline chrisc

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Re: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2019, 02:16:57 PM »
Also want to know.  If in southern suburbs or Montague Gardens even better
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Offline Gerlach

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Re: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2019, 02:29:50 PM »
you guys can give Rubicon https://www.rubiconsa.com/ and Solarsolved https://www.solarsolved.co.za/index.php/products/batteries a call, they are both in Montague gardens. There price is by far the best with there stuff. If you have a account or can get someone that have a account by Rubicon, then it's even more cheaper.
Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows. (Walter Röhrl)

It's really fun to scare people. (Sabine Schmitz 14.05.1969 - 15.03.2021) RIP

Offline Chas

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Re: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2019, 03:22:38 PM »
Just remember that the Lithium batteries available to us for use in the solar market are all second life batteries, ie used electric vehicle batteries, which are effectively only manufactured by a small number of OEM’s and rebranded by many, so they’re not new and despite their 10 year warranty it’s a roll of the dice, where you have to prove beyond doubt to the manufacturer" that your charger settings are 100% perfect else they repudiate warranty claims, which they do more often than not.
Some of the more reputable European battery OEM’s have chosen to not supply these second life batteries for the time being simply because of the service costs associated with battery failures.

Come and visit Kopana Power at Afica’s Largest Solar Show at the Sandton Convention Centre on 26/27 March for more info.
http://kopanapower.co.za/renewable-energy/
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Offline What

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Re: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2019, 05:25:34 PM »
@Chas - thank you for your post and information. Certainly an eye-opener.

Would one be able to use a whole lot of Litium Ion 3.7V batteries to make a battery bank?

Offline Dumb and Dumber

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Re: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2019, 07:23:29 PM »
@Chas - thank you for your post and information. Certainly an eye-opener.

Would one be able to use a whole lot of Litium Ion 3.7V batteries to make a battery bank?

If you can get good quality batteries and do a good job, yes. But I see a fire risk. I would just buy lead-acid batteries looking at the cost of lithiums.

Offline Gerlach

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Re: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2019, 10:12:30 PM »
@Chas - thank you for your post and information. Certainly an eye-opener.

Would one be able to use a whole lot of Litium Ion 3.7V batteries to make a battery bank?

Nope, rather skip that plan because every battery needs controller with a balancing. If this stuff isn't connected correctly, then you have a nice fire starter in your hands, and i have read some wild stories about this.
Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows. (Walter Röhrl)

It's really fun to scare people. (Sabine Schmitz 14.05.1969 - 15.03.2021) RIP

Offline fuz940510

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Re: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2019, 09:39:20 AM »
I had a look at inverter generators, apparently they are much quieter than the normal kind. Seeing as the cost for a good inverter/charger/battery was just over 10k, maybe a gennie might be a better option.

Does anyone have experience with these? I'm thinking of chatting to my neighbours and seeing if they're willing to go 50/50 on purchase and running cost.
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Offline Dumb and Dumber

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Re: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2019, 09:41:19 AM »
I had a look at inverter generators, apparently they are much quieter than the normal kind. Seeing as the cost for a good inverter/charger/battery was just over 10k, maybe a gennie might be a better option.

Does anyone have experience with these? I'm thinking of chatting to my neighbours and seeing if they're willing to go 50/50 on purchase and running cost.

My father had a Honda silent generator.
That machine was so quiet and smooth running. Nobody will complain especially if you can run it in a garage

Online Music_Lover

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Re: Eskom again - Battery, charger and inverter recommendations
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2019, 09:57:46 AM »
Just remember that the Lithium batteries available to us for use in the solar market are all second life batteries, ie used electric vehicle batteries, which are effectively only manufactured by a small number of OEM’s and rebranded by many, so they’re not new and despite their 10 year warranty it’s a roll of the dice, where you have to prove beyond doubt to the manufacturer" that your charger settings are 100% perfect else they repudiate warranty claims, which they do more often than not.
Some of the more reputable European battery OEM’s have chosen to not supply these second life batteries for the time being simply because of the service costs associated with battery failures.

Come and visit Kopana Power at Afica’s Largest Solar Show at the Sandton Convention Centre on 26/27 March for more info.
http://kopanapower.co.za/renewable-energy/

You're claiming that every Lithium battery available locally is a second life one, that is patently false.
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