Author Topic: Old Philips Speakers  (Read 492 times)

Offline Curlycat

Re: Old Philips Speakers
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2018, 11:38:44 AM »
The way I understand it is that QTS determines the mechanical function of a driver to stop cone movement. Low QTS means low stopping power. When a driver is in an enclosure, the enclosure itself helps to assist in stopping the cone movement. If a driver is in free air, such as open baffle, it does not have that assistance and a higher QTS is recommended. (I suppose not to exceed the drivers X-Max etc...)

But I am no techno buff. I just like playing around and enjoying this rabbit hole hobby. I do not sheepishly follow convention and like to experiment. Established convention is not always right...  :thinking:

Offline Ju_dy@RT

Re: Old Philips Speakers
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2018, 02:58:22 PM »
I just LOVE the old philips stuff, but for a WHOLE different reason....

My pride and joy is a 1920's Louis kalff Pancake. Not working... just PRETTY to look at :) I have my eye on a working one on e-bay though...  :-X.  It's easy enough to sneak in, in my hand luggage  ;D.

Second to that the pioneer Cs-06a... apparently it sounded sub par, but BOY is it a looker!  If anybody can find me a pair of the those at a reasonable price, I would be forever grateful.


Offline El Sid

Re: Old Philips Speakers
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2018, 03:47:02 PM »
I just LOVE the old philips stuff, but for a WHOLE different reason....

My pride and joy is a 1920's Louis kalff Pancake. Not working... just PRETTY to look at :) I have my eye on a working one on e-bay though...  :-X.  It's easy enough to sneak in, in my hand luggage  ;D.

Second to that the pioneer Cs-06a... apparently it sounded sub par, but BOY is it a looker!  If anybody can find me a pair of the those at a reasonable price, I would be forever grateful.

There was one, with radio, at Kensington Trading about two years ago - not sure if it worked or not.....

https://www.avforums.co.za/index.php/topic,57675.msg717037.html#msg717037

Call Joel at KT on 011 616 1295

Offline Ju_dy@RT

Re: Old Philips Speakers
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2018, 04:09:14 PM »
^^ thanks, just phoned him... it's still there :)  I might make a turn if the one on e-bay goes too high.  My current one needs a friend :)

Offline Steerpike

Re: Old Philips Speakers
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2018, 01:56:06 AM »
What's the current price? If Judy passes, maybe I should rescue it.

Online DeonC

Re: Old Philips Speakers
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2018, 06:16:51 AM »
The way I understand it is that QTS determines the mechanical function of a driver to stop cone movement. Low QTS means low stopping power. When a driver is in an enclosure, the enclosure itself helps to assist in stopping the cone movement. If a driver is in free air, such as open baffle, it does not have that assistance and a higher QTS is recommended. (I suppose not to exceed the drivers X-Max etc...)

But I am no techno buff. I just like playing around and enjoying this rabbit hole hobby. I do not sheepishly follow convention and like to experiment. Established convention is not always right...  :thinking:

I am NOT technical, but here follows how I understand it all:

As I understand it, it's exactly the other way around. Qe is Q-electrical and referes to the motor system, whereas Qm is Q-mechanical and refers to the suspension components (like the spider and the surround). A low Qts is due to a low Qe, and a low Qe indicates a very strong motor (high Qe indicates a weak motor). Have a look at the Eminence range of drivers. The Alpha has the smallest motor and the highest Qe (and Qts). The big Pro-series drivers have larger motors and low Qe.

So to get back, a low Qe means that the motor is very strong and has very high stopping power. An ultimately strong motor will yield a driver with a upward sloping response curve (low freq.s require larger excursion, which the  motor will resist, or so is my understanding). This can in part be overcome with VC design.

A high Qts design has less damping at low frequencies and therefore less control. The roll-off of the OB affects it much less, and therefore it produces more bass (my understanding here is a bit vague). However, many still prefer lower Qts woofers as they produce better quality bass, due to the better control over the cone, and make plans to live with the steeper roll-off.
Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.

Offline bearenzo

Re: Old Philips Speakers
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2018, 06:41:27 AM »
My pride and joy is a 1920's Louis kalff Pancake. Not working... just PRETTY to look at :)


+1
That's probably the most beautiful vintage Art Deco speaker to me.
I saw one in a antique shop near the Old Biscuit Mill , Cape Town two year ago.
Good cosmetic condition, but not tested, cable was cut off, asking R2500
At the time I was hoping to get a good working condition one, so I let it go.
Now if I think again, it's worth a position at home just for its design.

Offline Curlycat

Re: Old Philips Speakers
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2018, 10:17:29 AM »
I am NOT technical, but here follows how I understand it all:

As I understand it, it's exactly the other way around. Qe is Q-electrical and referes to the motor system, whereas Qm is Q-mechanical and refers to the suspension components (like the spider and the surround). A low Qts is due to a low Qe, and a low Qe indicates a very strong motor (high Qe indicates a weak motor). Have a look at the Eminence range of drivers. The Alpha has the smallest motor and the highest Qe (and Qts). The big Pro-series drivers have larger motors and low Qe.

So to get back, a low Qe means that the motor is very strong and has very high stopping power. An ultimately strong motor will yield a driver with a upward sloping response curve (low freq.s require larger excursion, which the  motor will resist, or so is my understanding). This can in part be overcome with VC design.

A high Qts design has less damping at low frequencies and therefore less control. The roll-off of the OB affects it much less, and therefore it produces more bass (my understanding here is a bit vague). However, many still prefer lower Qts woofers as they produce better quality bass, due to the better control over the cone, and make plans to live with the steeper roll-off.

Thanks for that correction @DeonC  :thumbs: Yup, it's indeed the other way around. :giggle:

Here is a nice youtube video explaining it all.
https://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn

The higher the QTS number means, the drivers have less ability to come to rest, after the electrical signal has ceased.  For dry bass seems lower around 0.5 - 0.6 is the norm, and for warm sounding speakers around 0.8 - 1.0. The middle of the road form many people seems to be 0.707.

Offline Ju_dy@RT

Re: Old Philips Speakers
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2018, 10:49:56 AM »
What's the current price? If Judy passes, maybe I should rescue it.

R3500... including what I think is a defunct amp.  Pretty much the average price locally IMHO... so not a steal as I think the one he has, has cosmetic damage on the face of the speaker which for me is a biggy. Also, I'm not so much interested in the amp... Really just the speaker, so it's a bit of a premium to pay if that's all I'm after.   On the flip side, they don't come around that often.

I paid about R2500 a year ago for a much nicer looking one, although not working.  In Europe the speaker alone HAS SOLD for anything between 70 pounds and 250 pounds... with a few chancers trying to sell for 2-3 times that.  :???:

So, IMHO realistically the combo is worth R3500.. if the speaker at least is working and if the face of the speaker is cosmetically good (which I'm not sure it is). However, I only really want the speaker... so have to place my worth on that alone.


Offline Ju_dy@RT

Re: Old Philips Speakers
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2018, 10:51:47 AM »

+1
That's probably the most beautiful vintage Art Deco speaker to me.
I saw one in a antique shop near the Old Biscuit Mill , Cape Town two year ago.
Good cosmetic condition, but not tested, cable was cut off, asking R2500
At the time I was hoping to get a good working condition one, so I let it go.
Now if I think again, it's worth a position at home just for its design.

A dark red one?  yeah... I think that one is this side of the world now  ;)


Offline bearenzo

Re: Old Philips Speakers
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2018, 10:59:26 AM »
A dark red one?  yeah... I think that one is this side of the world now  ;)

Yes, I think that's one. ( with price tag of R2500, at the left hand side shelf of the store near the entrance )
How interesting we have our eyes fall on the same item then. ( I was there at early Sep 2017 )
Great to know it end up in your hands.  :dop: