Poll

For how many years have you owned a TT, and still actively listen to records

0-3 years
7 (12.1%)
3-5 years
1 (1.7%)
5-10 years
4 (6.9%)
10-20 years
3 (5.2%)
20+ years
27 (46.6%)
No longer actively listen to records
11 (19%)
I’ve never really gotten into records
5 (8.6%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Are LPs Dead  (Read 3392 times)

Offline Steerpike

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #135 on: December 04, 2018, 11:03:20 PM »
Tx steer did not know that , still don’t know what it means cost or entails & assuming if not scratched etc..
will go try read about this ..

The clueless masses talk of "laser rot" which is about as inapproprate a name as you could imagine. It is not rot, and nothing to do with lasers.
It is very ordinary oxidation of aluminium by air, when the sealing action of the varnish layer is compromised.

Compact discs are made of Makrolon - a Beyer trademarked plastic - and the data is stored by physical indentations in the plastic. Since the disc is played from the opposite side from the pressing process, you could claim that the so called "pits" are actually raised mesas*. The aluminium is put on by vapour deposition (evaporation of aluminium by electric arc, and then condensation onto the cold plastic). A very thin layer, which is why it takes only moderate oxidation to make it lose significant reflectivity.
But the physical structure of the plastic representing data is not affected, so you could - with money and motivation - remove all the aluminium (Sodium hydroxide) and re-coat the disc.

The same process is used to make amateur telescope mirrors, and to silver the plastic reflectors in car headlamps.

Recordable Compact Discs do not have the same structure, so once they degrade there is no physical process that could restore them.

* Compact Disc data encoding is by NZRI, so it is the transition from pit to land, or land to pit that counts as a bit, not a pit (or mesa) itself. This means the data is identical whichever side you view it from - raised mesas or depressed pits are interpreted the same.

Offline King_Julian_S

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #136 on: December 04, 2018, 11:32:50 PM »
The clueless masses talk of "laser rot" which is about as inapproprate a name as you could imagine. It is not rot, and nothing to do with lasers.
It is very ordinary oxidation of aluminium by air, when the sealing action of the varnish layer is compromised.

Compact discs are made of Makrolon - a Beyer trademarked plastic - and the data is stored by physical indentations in the plastic. Since the disc is played from the opposite side from the pressing process, you could claim that the so called "pits" are actually raised mesas*. The aluminium is put on by vapour deposition (evaporation of aluminium by electric arc, and then condensation onto the cold plastic). A very thin layer, which is why it takes only moderate oxidation to make it lose significant reflectivity.
But the physical structure of the plastic representing data is not affected, so you could - with money and motivation - remove all the aluminium (Sodium hydroxide) and re-coat the disc.

The same process is used to make amateur telescope mirrors, and to silver the plastic reflectors in car headlamps.

Recordable Compact Discs do not have the same structure, so once they degrade there is no physical process that could restore them.

* Compact Disc data encoding is by NZRI, so it is the transition from pit to land, or land to pit that counts as a bit, not a pit (or mesa) itself. This means the data is identical whichever side you view it from - raised mesas or depressed pits are interpreted the same.

Tx again sire .. very informative.
Non audiophile music lover...

Offline Gerlach

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #137 on: December 05, 2018, 08:44:09 AM »
Some photos of how vinyl LP's are made. Jip, I like my digital music but I love my vinyl. Grown up in a house where vinyl was played on a constant base and learn to use a vinyl player at a early age. When I started to building my own audio setup, the first thing that I was after to add, was a vinyl player. What nice is, when we have friends over and they see the vinyl players , there first question is if vinyl is back. I show them my collection and then they want to listen to it.







Mastering console in cutting room


Red pellets which will eventually become a LP


Negatives ready for further processing




Making a negative form the master.


Cutting the first master from copper.




Galvanic bath for the development of metal parts.





Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows. (Walter Röhrl)

Offline Crankshaft

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #138 on: December 05, 2018, 10:14:37 AM »
It sure would be nice to have your own record factory.

Offline Steerpike

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #139 on: December 05, 2018, 11:37:06 AM »
Some photos of how vinyl LP's are made. Jip, I like my digital music but I love my vinyl records. Grown up in a house where vinyl was records were played on a constant base and learn to use a vinyl record player at a early age. When I started to building my own audio setup, the first thing that I was after to add, was a vinyl record player. What nice is, when we have friends over and they see the vinyl record players , there first question is if vinyl is records are back. I show them my collection and then they want to listen to it.


I fixed your post for you. "Vinyl" is not a word we like to see in adult conversation.
Excellent photos, I can't improve on those!
But mastering is not done at the record cutting plant. The mastering room would typically be much bigger and very well and expensively treated for acoustic correctness, maybe a suite attached to  studio, or a facility ll on its own.
There may be a listening/checking room at the cutting plant, but sonically it is rudimentary and isn't up to the demands of mastering where very subtle changes to the eq are made. Mastering engineers (real ones) are quite rare and very well paid.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 11:42:10 AM by Steerpike »

Offline JamesB

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #140 on: December 05, 2018, 11:50:14 AM »
🤣🤣🤣 I tell you, the debating got so hot, it inspired me to watch "the Great Debaters" again last night. Denzel Washington absolutely...superb😉😉

and to think it was such a simple question (perhaps masquerading as a digital vs analogue question  :whistler:).  Brilliant nonetheless, with passions running high on both sides of the fence, you would think that the question was akin to "who am I" and "why do I exist" type of question  :BWAHAHAH:

Offline Gerlach

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #141 on: December 05, 2018, 12:13:34 PM »
@Steerpike. Thanks for fixing that and to give more info.
Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows. (Walter Röhrl)

Offline BJ

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #142 on: December 05, 2018, 06:09:28 PM »
and to think it was such a simple question (perhaps masquerading as a digital vs analogue question  :whistler:).  Brilliant nonetheless, with passions running high on both sides of the fence, you would think that the question was akin to "who am I" and "why do I exist" type of question  :BWAHAHAH:

Seriously, the start of the thread was with a childish innocence.....not even contemplating what could follow....

I for one enjoyed the good debating, which led to my poorly defined Pole.

Lucky for me Sir RJ(now residing in the UK and I believe been knighted by the Queen) trolled my thread and gracefully restarted the Pole. I will be forever in debt😏😏😏

Not to mention the Admin/Mods that have labored through all the post, and still to come.

Seriously though.....the last 10 years of my 30+ years in Audio has seen a remarkable growth in TT and LP sales. Yes in the bigger scale of things, I agree maybe minute. But it certainly has kept the food on the table.

If you look back, 10 years ago, looking for a really High End TT, you pretty much had 2 choices Clearaudio and SME.

Today, there must be at least 10 top High/Ultra end Manufacturers available through various distributors and dealers. Plus our very own state of the Art locally made unit....

Turning back the clock to the 80's, it was pretty much a choice of Rega and Linn in this Country.  With maybe a bit of NAD and AR to choose from. Anything else you really had to look for with the Japanese brands with the exception of the famous Technics unit almost unheard off.

Nowadays even the Mass produce products are getting some attention.

The so called Audiophile entry market is booming with the likes of Project, Rega, Edwards Audio,  Thorens and many more...

Speaking to importers and Distributors of these brands, everyone is "complaining" with the preverball white bread under the Arm...

With yeah, we miss the Golden Age of Audio, but everyone is bringing in more, investing more, with one goal....to make your money  work for you.....

I am about to pull the trigger on another Analogue product.... Conservatively the financial layout is going to be at least R300K

Yeah, some will call this crazy, and the doom prophets will write pages....

Yet I feel comfortable to do this, with more faith in my ability to turn the money and show profit plus growth.

Hell, I could also put this into Steinhoff....

« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 06:11:51 PM by BJ »
Shunyata - See No Evil; Hear No Evil

Offline Gerlach

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #143 on: December 05, 2018, 10:36:08 PM »
Seriously, the start of the thread was with a childish innocence.....not even contemplating what could follow....

I for one enjoyed the good debating, which led to my poorly defined Pole.

Lucky for me Sir RJ(now residing in the UK and I believe been knighted by the Queen) trolled my thread and gracefully restarted the Pole. I will be forever in debt😏😏😏

Not to mention the Admin/Mods that have labored through all the post, and still to come.

Seriously though.....the last 10 years of my 30+ years in Audio has seen a remarkable growth in TT and LP sales. Yes in the bigger scale of things, I agree maybe minute. But it certainly has kept the food on the table.

If you look back, 10 years ago, looking for a really High End TT, you pretty much had 2 choices Clearaudio and SME.

Today, there must be at least 10 top High/Ultra end Manufacturers available through various distributors and dealers. Plus our very own state of the Art locally made unit....

Turning back the clock to the 80's, it was pretty much a choice of Rega and Linn in this Country.  With maybe a bit of NAD and AR to choose from. Anything else you really had to look for with the Japanese brands with the exception of the famous Technics unit almost unheard off.

Nowadays even the Mass produce products are getting some attention.

The so called Audiophile entry market is booming with the likes of Project, Rega, Edwards Audio,  Thorens and many more...

Speaking to importers and Distributors of these brands, everyone is "complaining" with the preverball white bread under the Arm...

With yeah, we miss the Golden Age of Audio, but everyone is bringing in more, investing more, with one goal....to make your money  work for you.....

I am about to pull the trigger on another Analogue product.... Conservatively the financial layout is going to be at least R300K

Yeah, some will call this crazy, and the doom prophets will write pages....

Yet I feel comfortable to do this, with more faith in my ability to turn the money and show profit plus growth.

Hell, I could also put this into Steinhoff....

Nice work there BJ!! The market is growing, you can see it on a lot of social platforms.
Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows. (Walter Röhrl)

Offline sand_man

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #144 on: December 06, 2018, 08:57:31 AM »
Very interesting thread! Subbed!!


Online KenMasters

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #145 on: December 06, 2018, 01:10:35 PM »
The Truth About Vinyl - Vinyl vs. Digital:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzRvSWPZQYk

Offline Katji

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #146 on: December 06, 2018, 04:28:41 PM »
The reason for 12-inch singles is there.  ...And dubplates.

Offline King_Julian_S

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #147 on: December 06, 2018, 07:04:29 PM »
The truth
Non audiophile music lover...

Offline Rotten Johnny

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #148 on: December 06, 2018, 07:32:16 PM »
The truth


Really?  I thought you were at least smarter than that.

I like beautiful melodies telling me terrible things -- Tom Waits

Free your mind...and your ass will follow.

Offline JonnyP

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Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #149 on: December 06, 2018, 07:52:58 PM »
All of us can agree on one thing BJ said on the last page, we all like a well defined Pole.....

A well defined poll is also good, but Anja Rubik is a very well defined Pole.
Are you waiting for loneliness to paralyse? Are you waiting for sister midnight to anaesthetise?