Poll

For how many years have you owned a TT, and still actively listen to records

0-3 years
8 (13.1%)
3-5 years
1 (1.6%)
5-10 years
4 (6.6%)
10-20 years
3 (4.9%)
20+ years
28 (45.9%)
No longer actively listen to records
11 (18%)
I’ve never really gotten into records
6 (9.8%)

Total Members Voted: 61

Author Topic: Are LPs Dead  (Read 5144 times)

Offline Katji

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #165 on: December 07, 2018, 06:39:42 PM »
Anyway, surely the issue of whether one or the other is inferior /superior in audio reproduction is beside the point.
"Are LPs Dead?" Check the sales figures. Analyse if you want. I suppose the record enthusiasts prefer the graphs showing sales since 2012 or so and the others think it is better to show sales since 1990 or earlier. 

Offline King_Julian_S

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #166 on: December 07, 2018, 06:55:32 PM »
Do we have stats that reflect the age groups of who’s making the LP sales grow ?
Non audiophile music lover...

Offline King_Julian_S

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #167 on: December 07, 2018, 06:57:34 PM »
“Fool sprout waveforms” in the “nice” video at 10.5 .. case closed ..
Non audiophile music lover...

Offline JonnyP

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Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #168 on: December 07, 2018, 07:05:06 PM »
Bought five LPs today (well, one was a double and one a triple box set) for less than the cost of downloads.  I’ll keep buying (all are in excellent condition and once machine cleaned will be perfect)
The Philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways.  The point, however, is to change it.

Offline BJ

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #169 on: December 07, 2018, 09:35:55 PM »
Music must and will always be the winner....

No need to get into the "Ring" if you're a sucker like me....

On the Carpet today....just arrived

Can't wait to get my hands inside the Box



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Offline naughty

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #170 on: December 07, 2018, 10:34:42 PM »
Anyway, surely the issue of whether one or the other is inferior /superior in audio reproduction is beside the point.
"Are LPs Dead?" Check the sales figures. Analyse if you want. I suppose the record enthusiasts prefer the graphs showing sales since 2012 or so and the others think it is better to show sales since 1990 or earlier.

its all about the relative increases - people earlier showed graphs of the increase being 9,2% of physical medium sales - but physical medium sales (LP and CD) are only 10% of total music sales - so by extension LP sales only increased by 0,92% when compared to total (100%) music sales (from figures gleaned in links provided by vinyl lovers) so really how much of an increase was it? Even with unreported sales and second hand sales but reporting second hand sales is now accounting for something that was already accounted for when it was first sold, so second hand sales are totally out of the picture anyway.

in the same way i cant add piracy figures for digital music since the pirated stuff was something that someone stole and there is no way to account for it ie no-one knows the true extent of its existence, so all we can rely on is the reflected sales figures and my contention is even if by some happenstance that unreported sales can double sales figures of LPs .... how significant is that, if it increased from just under one percent to just over two percent of total music sales accounted for one year ... big deal

look at the logic of it - in reality those increases in LP sales are overall totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things and its only important to those people who exist in that socalled "bubble" referred to up above somewhere 

Offline Steerpike

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #171 on: December 07, 2018, 11:24:29 PM »
Quote
If the wave coming from the amplifier, looked like the one representing the digital output in the illustration above, then you would have a high frequency square wave tone over the musical content, coming from your speaker.

What gobbledygook is this, I don't think you understand waveforms.

It's not gobbledygook; it's accurate. In theory.
The factors that stop that happening are limited frequency response of the amplifier and the loudspeaker.
Both of these factors are technically doing the same thing as the digital player's reconstruction filter, but with a more gentle slope.
Remove the reconstruction filter and you WILL get a frequency component in the output centred on the sampling frequency - and harmonic multiples of it. But to get a true staircase as in that diagram, you would need a very, very fast D/A converter (such things do exist nowadays, although they didn't in the 1980s) and an analogue output follower with a bandwidh of many MHz.

Offline 2wice

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #172 on: December 08, 2018, 12:15:31 AM »
its all about the relative increases - people earlier showed graphs of the increase being 9,2% of physical medium sales - but physical medium sales (LP and CD) are only 10% of total music sales - so by extension LP sales only increased by 0,92% when compared to total (100%) music sales (from figures gleaned in links provided by vinyl lovers) so really how much of an increase was it?

At the publishing of the financial reports of a car manufacturer, brand "A", they showed the shareholders a jump in sales for the year @ 9.2%.
Brand "B" lost 40% of its market share even though they have much bigger sales volumes.

They are still dwarfed by the market share of the Brand "C" an aerospace manufacturer.
You are arguing from a different perspective.

Even with unreported sales and second hand sales but reporting second hand sales is now accounting for something that was already accounted for when it was first sold, so second hand sales are totally out of the picture anyway.

Brand "D" is a second-hand car dealer, one of several thousand all over the place, absolutely everywhere.
They would be mighty surprised to hear that the sales volumes they generate, means nothing to the GDP.
It has value.

look at the logic of it - in reality those increases in LP sales are overall totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things and its only important to those people who exist in that socalled "bubble" referred to up above somewhere

Does that mean you consider other peoples pleasure insignificant? More importantly, they don't care.
For the content creators and customers, steady growth is very important, to secure future financial benefits and a steady stream of content.
A subsection of the market craves content.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&q=vinyl

Offline 2wice

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #173 on: December 08, 2018, 12:25:38 AM »
It's not gobbledygook; it's accurate. In theory.
The factors that stop that happening are limited frequency response of the amplifier and the loudspeaker.
Both of these factors are technically doing the same thing as the digital player's reconstruction filter, but with a more gentle slope.
Remove the reconstruction filter and you WILL get a frequency component in the output centred on the sampling frequency - and harmonic multiples of it. But to get a true staircase as in that diagram, you would need a very, very fast D/A converter (such things do exist nowadays, although they didn't in the 1980s) and an analogue output follower with a bandwidh of many MHz.

OK, I think I understand. To be able to hear the effect of the highly stylized waveform as above, you would need to remove something from the processing?
Does that mean with current playback system there would be hardly any audible difference between them?

Offline naughty

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #174 on: December 08, 2018, 12:33:51 AM »
At the publishing of the financial reports of a car manufacturer, brand "A", they showed the shareholders a jump in sales for the year @ 9.2%.
Brand "B" lost 40% of its market share even though they have much bigger sales volumes.

They are still dwarfed by the market share of the Brand "C" an aerospace manufacturer.
You are arguing from a different perspective.

only thing is that Brand C in this case is not an aerospace manufacturer - its still a car manufacturer - because music sales is music sales - so the analogy would be more like brand A & B make SUVs only while brand C makes cars and SUVs .... thats a more logical analogy .... going back to the topic on hand its all music so why is one considered a car and the other a plane .... that just doesnt make sense

Brand "D" is a second-hand car dealer, one of several thousand all over the place, absolutely everywhere.
They would be mighty surprised to hear that the sales volumes they generate, means nothing to the GDP.
It has value.

so you think that vinyl should be double counted? no problems i grant you that BUT that still wont make it significant in terms of overall music sales - in an analogy of counting all this stuff as a photo, vinyl is still two pixels in a million pixel photo, and making it 4 pixels in a million pixel photo does not make it any more significant  :nfi:

Offline naughty

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #175 on: December 08, 2018, 12:42:45 AM »
Does that mean you consider other peoples pleasure insignificant? More importantly, they don't care.
For the content creators and customers, steady growth is very important, to secure future financial benefits and a steady stream of content.
A subsection of the market craves content.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&q=vinyl

its still a tiny subsection of the market - im not questioning its right to exist what i am questioning is how anyone else considers such small growth in a huge market to be a big or significant thing .... its still making a very small impact on total music sales so its not as big a deal as many make it out to be

if it was 40% of the total music market then possibly i may be Like "dude .... please sell me a turntable and i gotta go buy me some LPs" but right now a vast majority of people are more likely saying "hey, i have tidal and google music and itunes .... now let me add spotify" and you ask them about turntables and they will more likely tell you "hey thats my weird uncles hobby and he lives 300 miles away, and no-one else i know has one"

Offline BJ

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #176 on: December 08, 2018, 06:48:34 PM »
@ naughty
"weird uncles hobby and he lives 300 miles away, and no-one else i know has one"

Hahaha.....no man you must your facts correct....

I am 1300 miles away from you :whip:
Shunyata - See No Evil; Hear No Evil

Offline JonnyP

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Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #177 on: December 08, 2018, 07:20:52 PM »
I’m the weird uncle although my nieces are still in the ‘Baby Shark’ song age range.  They will grow up knowing about vinyl records as every time I visit, I go crate digging.  Up to them how they (or if they) get into music.  I will obviously try to make sure they hear some great stuff but doubt they will think it’s anything more than Uncle Jon and his music (the older one already has a lego man with beard who she refers to as Uncle Jon)
The Philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways.  The point, however, is to change it.

Offline Riddlers

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #178 on: December 09, 2018, 07:39:59 PM »
wanna get myself a TT, apparently LP sounds damn nice

Offline King_Julian_S

Re: Are LPs Dead
« Reply #179 on: December 09, 2018, 08:06:53 PM »
wanna get myself a TT, apparently LP sounds damn nice
Speak to the experts here to help guide you it can be a rabbit hole if you not careful.. or perhaps you enjoy the trail and error experimenting stuff .. either way , enjoy but have an open mind don’t have expectations
Non audiophile music lover...