Author Topic: The value of RAID appreciated  (Read 341 times)

Online FranZAR

The value of RAID appreciated
« on: October 29, 2018, 08:44:05 PM »
Have been running 3 RAID drives for the past few years, all on RAID5 (two 4 x 2TB and one 4 x 3TB). Yesterday my music drive decided to give up the ghost (4 x 2TB). Pulled out the dead drive and replaced with a spare. Rebuilding started automatically and left to run through the night. This morning 100% recovery. Happy days vs cardiac arrest.
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Offline Rotten Johnny

Re: The value of RAID appreciated
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2018, 09:06:59 PM »
Good in the event only one drive fails.  No good if two or more go, and the # of R/W operations in a rebuild can cause another raid member to fail, then it's all gone.  Always best to keep a separate backup in addition to the array.  For availability and recovery I use SnapRAID which is basically offline parity and you can have as many parity drives as you want so you can recover from more drive failures.  Given that the music collection is fairly static the offline parity works pretty well - the recovery is as good as the previous sync, and you can recover individual files etc. https://www.snapraid.it/
I like beautiful melodies telling me terrible things -- Tom Waits

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Online FranZAR

Re: The value of RAID appreciated
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2018, 09:10:03 PM »
Good in the event only one drive fails.  No good if two or more go, and the # of R/W operations in a rebuild can cause another raid member to fail, then it's all gone.  Always best to keep a separate backup in addition to the array.  For availability and recovery I use SnapRAID which is basically offline parity and you can have as many parity drives as you want so you can recover from more drive failures.  Given that the music collection is fairly static the offline parity works pretty well - the recovery is as good as the previous sync, and you can recover individual files etc. https://www.snapraid.it/

Thanks, will look into it.  :mates:
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Offline naughty

Re: The value of RAID appreciated
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2018, 09:39:47 PM »
if you are going to keep backups then why even bother with raid - i just keep music on a drive and use an identical size of drive to back that up - when its full i just buy another two drives for additional music and then backup that - if one drive fails all i have to do is buy a new drive and restore the backup to that - and the backup is not used so it will take far longer to fail than the one that is regularly used

im just not a fan of raid to be honest - because to me if it does really get lost you have far more data to lose in one go  :nfi:

Offline Rotten Johnny

Re: The value of RAID appreciated
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2018, 09:44:21 PM »
Hence SnapRAID, you can mix drives of various sizes,  your parity disk(s) can be powered off till needed and each drive exists as an entity rather than as a member of a traditional raid array.
I like beautiful melodies telling me terrible things -- Tom Waits

Free your mind...and your ass will follow.

Online FranZAR

Re: The value of RAID appreciated
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2018, 09:56:09 PM »
if you are going to keep backups then why even bother with raid - i just keep music on a drive and use an identical size of drive to back that up - when its full i just buy another two drives for additional music and then backup that - if one drive fails all i have to do is buy a new drive and restore the backup to that - and the backup is not used so it will take far longer to fail than the one that is regularly used

im just not a fan of raid to be honest - because to me if it does really get lost you have far more data to lose in one go  :nfi:
So, every time you add a file to your primary drive you also copy it to the backup drive? Seems a bit tedious?

The point of using RAID is to be able to recover data in the event of drive failure. Your exact copies of drives is essentially what RAID does.

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« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 10:05:56 PM by FranZAR »
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Offline naughty

Re: The value of RAID appreciated
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2018, 10:05:55 PM »
So, every time you add a file to your primary drive you also copy it to the backup drive? Seems a bit tedious?

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when it comes to my music im prepared to do lots of work - - whenever i do a rip im doing it to my O/S drive anyway so im going to be copying it to my music drive - so to copy it to my backup drive isnt really a lot of extra work anyway because my backup drives are external drives anyway

i always have to do a lot of work on my rips anyway because i use MP3tag to double check the tagging and also modify the tagging to the standard and format that i want, and then i get the coverart updated using album art downloader - so copying it twice isnt really adding a lot to what i have to do anyway - as long as i copy it to the main music drive and the backup at the same time (just adds around 2 to 3 minutes of extra work at that time)

also i like my backup drives to be portable external drives because they seem to be more durable than internal drives and i do tend to move those around a lot ie after i update then i remove them from the PC and store them in my cupboard
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 10:08:07 PM by naughty »

Offline naughty

Re: The value of RAID appreciated
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2018, 10:10:05 PM »
So, every time you add a file to your primary drive you also copy it to the backup drive? Seems a bit tedious?

The point of using RAID is to be able to recover data in the event of drive failure. Your exact copies of drives is essentially what RAID does.

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yeah but there is a chance that if both are internal drives and you started using them together they could both fail at the same time ... as i stated elsewhere i want my backups to be on external drives so i can store them away from the PC and not have those being used all the time

Online FranZAR

Re: The value of RAID appreciated
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2018, 10:16:43 PM »
yeah but there is a chance that if both are internal drives and you started using them together they could both fail at the same time ... as i stated elsewhere i want my backups to be on external drives so i can store them away from the PC and not have those being used all the time
Yes, there is a chance. But this was the first drive failure out of 12 drives in RAID configuration (4 x 3TB,  8 x 2TB) since 2013, so I'm pretty happy that no data was lost.

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« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 10:20:03 PM by FranZAR »
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Offline naughty

Re: The value of RAID appreciated
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2018, 12:05:53 AM »
Yes, there is a chance. But this was the first drive failure out of 12 drives in RAID configuration (4 x 3TB,  8 x 2TB) since 2013, so I'm pretty happy that no data was lost.

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that bit highlighted in red is definitely something to be grateful about .... raid or no raid  :thumbs:

Online vleisman

Re: The value of RAID appreciated
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2018, 08:14:06 AM »
Good in the event only one drive fails.  No good if two or more go, and the # of R/W operations in a rebuild can cause another raid member to fail, then it's all gone.  Always best to keep a separate backup in addition to the array.  For availability and recovery I use SnapRAID which is basically offline parity and you can have as many parity drives as you want so you can recover from more drive failures.  Given that the music collection is fairly static the offline parity works pretty well - the recovery is as good as the previous sync, and you can recover individual files etc. https://www.snapraid.it/

That sounds like exactly what I need :2thumbs:

Offline Larry

Re: The value of RAID appreciated
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2018, 08:29:54 AM »
RAID is not backup by any stretch of the imagination, it is a "bacon saver" and a huge convenience (if hot swappable).

I've seen RAID 10 arrays lose two disks in the same mirror set within an hour or two on a number of occasions.  I once saw an enterprise SAN storage controller lose 8 disks in one drawer in 4 hours.  Luckily there were enough global hot spares in other trays, enough RAID redundancy and enough time to complete disk rebuilds before losing the array.   

I love RAID, I love a good backup strategy, they got married and had twins called Data Integrity and Data Recoverability.

I have no interest in restoring from backup if I don't need to


if you are going to keep backups then why even bother with raid - i just keep music on a drive and use an identical size of drive to back that up - when its full i just buy another two drives for additional music and then backup that - if one drive fails all i have to do is buy a new drive and restore the backup to that - and the backup is not used so it will take far longer to fail than the one that is regularly used

im just not a fan of raid to be honest - because to me if it does really get lost you have far more data to lose in one go  :nfi:

Online GoodEnoughGear

Re: The value of RAID appreciated
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2018, 08:41:47 AM »
When I buy drives for backup (no RAID here) I try to buy from different vendors so as to avoid a common issue in a batch.
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Offline fdlsys

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Re: The value of RAID appreciated
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2018, 12:00:59 PM »
So, every time you add a file to your primary drive you also copy it to the backup drive? Seems a bit tedious?
You set up RSync on Linux (or DeltaCopy as it's known under Windows) to automatically compare and clone the "source" to "destination".
Source can be a whole drive or a share or an individual folder, and you can have any number of configured sources (and destinations) running on the same instances of RSync/DeltaCopy. Destination can be another server or a different drive on the same server.
You can set up the individual jobs to fully sync (delete destination when source is deleted) or persist the destination.
You can setup both ends acting as both the source and destination if you want to sync both ways.
My backup strategy is RSync copying every 30 minutes between my "primary" and "secondary" servers, but also on a less frequent schedule to the USB connected drives that go to sleep when not used so those should hopefully act as a true long term backup.
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Online scrarfussi

Re: The value of RAID appreciated
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2018, 07:04:16 AM »
I've never really understood how raid works , by that i mean my understanding is  if i have two  three 4tb drives in raid i am basically seeing 4tb and using 4tb  . and the different raid levels ahhh tooo technical . :walled:

so rather just back up . dont need to back up everyday back up once in like 5 months Its not like i am getting new music everyday or week .
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