Author Topic: Atmos Setup  (Read 1066 times)

Offline LocknLoad

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Atmos Setup
« on: September 20, 2018, 03:14:05 PM »
Going to be moving to a new house and will be going with a Atmos setup. Based on the literature that I have read I have come up with this design





What concerns me is that based on text book angles the Atmos rear speakers will be quite far back.
I normally would have put them at a 1/4 distance from the back wall but the angles don't match the current industry recommendations.

For those that have deployed 4 or more Atmos speakers how did you go about it?
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Offline Drifter

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Re: Atmos Setup
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2018, 04:23:44 PM »
Firstly, as you are based in Cape Town, you are more than welcome to come around to come and have a look at my 7.2.4 setup. I'm in Northern Suburbs.

My thoughts on your design:
- The side surrounds are maybe a touch too far back from the couch. The idea is that they should be next to the listening position if possible. Mine is also slightly behind the listening position but I have bookshelf speakers for surrounds on wall brackets that can swivel and have them angled forward so that the tweeter fires straight at your ear when you are in the listening position. As you have them now, you may loose some of the wrap around effect.
- In terms of Atmos speakers, I think your design is pretty much on par with Dolby's recommendation. If you can, get in-ceiling speakers with directional tweeters. You can then angle the tweeter to the listening position. The problem is that, with standard height ceilings, if the in-ceilings are too far away from the listening position you may loose some direct focus and impact from the overheads.

My money ran out and I had budget for only one set of in-ceilings with directional tweeters (B&W CCM 684). I used these for the front Atmos channels. I then used the non direction tweeter and much cheaper CCM 382 model for the rear Atmos channels. As a result I moved my couch backwards and the listening spot is now in the rear 1/3 position rather than halfway between the rear and forward Atmos channels (hope this makes sense).

Make sure that the rear and side surrrounds are mounted no more than a few cm's above ear height when seated. Atmos works most effectively when you get a good sense of sounds lifting overhead.

Offline LocknLoad

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Re: Atmos Setup
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2018, 10:14:53 AM »
I already have a pair of DIYSG Volt8 and will be getting another pair. They have a pretty good dispersion within the 0-60 degree range.
I am not sure of the height between the slab and the plasterboard so hoping they fit. If I cannot install a custom angled box, then will run them as IB.
Good point on the angle. Will take that into account whichever way it pans out.

I have been running a 11.x setup (using Yamaha front and rear presence) for a few years and a 9.x and 7.x setup before that.
We moved around a bit and rented so had to find creative ways to accommodate the speakers. 
For a while I ran a 6.1 setup with the three rears on a shelf directly behind the couch and the bookshelves coax was about 30cm above ear height.
In a few movies that setup scared the living crap out of me. More than once I could swear I heard someone or something coming up behind me.

I have to say I did not like the side speakers anywhere near ear height. I found that sitting closest to the speakers there was a loss of imaging.
The person on the left would block sound to a degree to the person on the right and volume difference was very off putting for me personally.
I prefer at least 500mm above seating height if direct forward facing at 90 degrees.

In my setup right now I have them about 1m above seated height The left is angled towards to the right most seated position and vice versa for the right surround.
They are at 90 degrees to the MLP.

For a while I use this as my reference point - I would try and get side and surrounds to standing ear ear.
https://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/audio-processing/46079-best-7-1-5-1-surround-speaker-heights.html

Direct facing ear height was an old practice but that recommendation looks to have changed back in 2015.
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/ten-speaker-layout-tips-for-dolby-atmos-dts-x-auro/

Of course all this 'theory' goes out the window if you not using monopole speakers. I am not sure if the same rules apply to bipoles, dipoles and tri-pole speakers.
http://www.audiogurus.com/learn/speakers/difference-between-dipole-bipole-speakers/290

Right after I win the lottery, will look at trying something like this out... (That cost is per speaker)
https://www.mksoundus.com/products/s150t-tripole-speaker
 
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Offline Drifter

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Re: Atmos Setup
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2018, 10:32:08 AM »
Great, good luck. It is exciting and you will enjoy the end product.

I'm sure you have seen this: https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/7-1-4-setups.html
It is a good guide and I tried to follow it as far as I could.

I quote from this: "You'll get the best sound when the front and surround speakers are at or slightly above your ear level when you're seated"

Also from the guide:
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 10:35:30 AM by Drifter »

Offline LocknLoad

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Re: Atmos Setup
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2018, 10:46:37 AM »
I too tried to stay fairly close to the Dolby and DTS recommendations. Have read so much that there is often conflicting info and some things are open to interpretation.
In the end do what works for you.






I will probably lay PVC ducting for what is most likely going to be the next 'thing' 9.x



The Denon X8500 can do this right now... 13.x. Pretty much identical to my Yamaha 11.x presence setup with Atmos added in.



Really wondering about getting this going with a standard 7.x.4 receiver. Using external amps you could send the same signal to

Rear Left Height + Rear Left Atmos
Rear Right Height + Rear Right Atmos
Same for the front.

Hmmm....
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Offline Drifter

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Re: Atmos Setup
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2018, 10:52:31 AM »

The Denon X8500 can do this right now... 13.x. Pretty much identical to my Yamaha 11.x presence setup with Atmos added in.




Must sound amazing. It's almost a hybrid type of Auro 3D setup. Only issue is that those "height" channels will be matrixed/upmixed as they are not a discreet part of the Atmos soundtrack.

I'm not a fan of DTS:X though. Atmos is better IMHO.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 10:55:47 AM by Drifter »

Offline Spurge

Re: Atmos Setup
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2018, 03:52:29 PM »
At last a total "new way of thinking". Great idea to use a semi AURO3D layout and play the ear level surround sound also at a height level. Hope it works.

If there an annual new range of Denon's end of this year, the X4500H should process what the X8500H does now.

Online naughty

Re: Atmos Setup
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2018, 06:27:26 PM »
At last a total "new way of thinking". Great idea to use a semi AURO3D layout and play the ear level surround sound also at a height level. Hope it works.

If there an annual new range of Denon's end of this year, the X4500H should process what the X8500H does now.

Denons annual new models are launched around June/July each year - so these should already have been announced overseas (in Japan and USA as well as possibly Europe)

Offline Juan Robertson

Re: Atmos Setup
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2018, 08:08:08 AM »
Hi,

I recently purchased a erven, and also looking to build a dedicated home theater.

My current amp (RXA-1060; 7.2 Channel) will not allow me to use a 7.2.4 system. So my setup will either be 7.1 or 5.1.2, to which i am leaning more to the latter as i heard it works better for surround sound.

Would you do a 7.1 or a 5.1.2?

My gut tells me I must do the ducting for a 7.2.4 system, so when i come to that stage, i can just add wiring and speakers if i upgrade my av receiver.

Offline LocknLoad

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Re: Atmos Setup
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2018, 06:19:05 PM »
It would depending on the room layout. Where you plan on putting furniture and the door to the room.
Laying 25mm PVC for the speakers and 30/40mm for the projector HDMI cable is nothing compared to the the other elements involved.

I would try and go for a 7.x setup now, especially if you have the all the components.
If you lay the ducting now, it will be a far simpler upgrade and reduced inconvenience to pull some wire and mount 2 or 4 overhead speakers.

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Offline Drifter

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Re: Atmos Setup
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2018, 07:04:00 PM »
Hi,

I recently purchased a erven, and also looking to build a dedicated home theater.

My current amp (RXA-1060; 7.2 Channel) will not allow me to use a 7.2.4 system. So my setup will either be 7.1 or 5.1.2, to which i am leaning more to the latter as i heard it works better for surround sound.

Would you do a 7.1 or a 5.1.2?

My gut tells me I must do the ducting for a 7.2.4 system, so when i come to that stage, i can just add wiring and speakers if i upgrade my av receiver.

If the room is anything bigger than 3m x 3m, go for 7.1.4.