Author Topic: The McGurk Effect  (Read 712 times)

Offline Michon

The McGurk Effect
« on: August 11, 2018, 08:16:00 PM »
When sight and sound disagree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0
Tidal HiFi > MOTU 828x > Speaker build pending.
                                   > Schiit Lyr > Sennheiser HD600 & HD800.

Offline ron g

Re: The McGurk Effect
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2018, 08:38:03 PM »



i posted this a couple of times with no interest. but what the hell - try again.

i think this can be really well illustrated by the buffalax videos. close your eyes & it is just a meaningless noise (to most of us anyway).

read the subtitles & you will hear what they is written as being the lyrics that are being sung.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDKcevMFUCo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AHq78O7BX0

is it just me or have bitcoin people gone a bitquiet because its a bitdown? #bitter

Offline Michon

Re: The McGurk Effect
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2018, 08:50:44 PM »
Haha

I wasn't expecting this thread to go beyond a reply or two either, but some may be interested.

Tidal HiFi > MOTU 828x > Speaker build pending.
                                   > Schiit Lyr > Sennheiser HD600 & HD800.

Offline Curlycat

Re: The McGurk Effect
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2018, 11:06:00 AM »
Very interesting.
Gives the term "blind study" new meaning.

I also remember reading about experiments done where it was anecdotally proved that people are influenced by the aesthetics and price of equipment, sounding better.

Offline Steerpike

Re: The McGurk Effect
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2018, 04:34:31 PM »
Wir fah- fah- fahren auf der Autobahn...

Offline capetownwatches

Re: The McGurk Effect
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2018, 07:25:33 PM »
Yeah, this never fails to amaze, and to reaffirm the fact that us humans have a major disconnect between eyes and brain.

Five people can witness exactly the same event and recount it differently.
Our eyes tell us one thing, our brains can decode this differently.
Seeing is NOT believing.

And this extends to ears and brain, de facto. What I hear is not what you hear.
Friends of mine don't hear the same things I do when I plug them into The Deth Dek :groovy:

Some folks swear by Beats. When exposed to a quality headphone they might find it "unimpressive."

And there is no question that people are heavily influenced by price, believing that high cost equals high quality.
In the audio context of course, but in many other areas too.
But that's entirely another can of worms.



Kingrex HQ1-Benchmark DAC1 USB-NFB11.32-Little Dot MKll-SRM252S
LCD2F-HD600-DT990Pro-K612Pro-K240S K171MKll-M4U2-Y50-SR207

Offline legro

Re: The McGurk Effect
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2018, 07:58:13 PM »
Uh, dunno how this was mixed ( although I do trust the internet above all other sources of truth  ;D) but I clearly hear " ba " and " fa".

A slight problem with hifi: if you do not trust what you hear, you really should not bother. Watch the dvd instead.

And if others start explaining to you what you should/ shouldn't hear - I'm afraid you've lost the plot completely.

Offline Michon

Re: The McGurk Effect
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2018, 08:28:32 PM »
I also remember reading about experiments done where it was anecdotally proved that people are influenced by the aesthetics and price of equipment, sounding better.

No doubt that expectation bias can alter our perception. We have a variety of inputs and sometimes we can misjudge based upon the nature and rank order of the inputs.

Wir fah- fah- fahren auf der Autobahn...

haha Even the Youtube video has subtitles that read fun fun fun of the autobahn.

Seeing is NOT believing.

Apparently neither is hearing always.

And this extends to ears and brain, de facto. What I hear is not what you hear.
Friends of mine don't hear the same things I do when I plug them into The Deth Dek :groovy:

A few weeks ago I let a friend AB between the Sennheiser HD600 and the HD202. He preferred the HD202.

What is the Deth Dek?

Uh, dunno how this was mixed ( although I do trust the internet above all other sources of truth  ;D) but I clearly hear " ba " and " fa".

A slight problem with hifi: if you do not trust what you hear, you really should not bother. Watch the dvd instead.

And if others start explaining to you what you should/ shouldn't hear - I'm afraid you've lost the plot completely.

You are supposed to hear ba and fa. Despite the audio for both examples being the same a change in visual presentation can alter our auditory perception of the same auditory phenomena. In this instance the visual queue of the speakers lips takes precedent over, or at least modulates, the auditory information. When our eyes are open our ears and our eyes work together and sometimes what we hear will be influenced by what we see in ways that we may not expect. It's not a revelation, but this is the first time that I have encountered it in this form.

We should trust what we hear, in so far as we should trust our sensory perceptions, but we should also realise that when our eyes are seeing we are not only hearing. Perhaps we can rely most on what we hear when we are hearing in isolation from our other senses.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 09:01:40 PM by Michon »
Tidal HiFi > MOTU 828x > Speaker build pending.
                                   > Schiit Lyr > Sennheiser HD600 & HD800.

Offline capetownwatches

Re: The McGurk Effect
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2018, 09:18:12 PM »


Kingrex HQ1-Benchmark DAC1 USB-NFB11.32-Little Dot MKll-SRM252S
LCD2F-HD600-DT990Pro-K612Pro-K240S K171MKll-M4U2-Y50-SR207

Offline Michon

Re: The McGurk Effect
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2018, 09:35:36 PM »
Ugh that is nice.

I want some Audeze in my life. A pair of Audeze and a pair of Stax are on my headphones wishlist.
Are those the LCD-4s? I'd probably go for the LCD-2 initially.

Those look so good that it probably doesn't matter how they sound.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 09:47:08 PM by Michon »
Tidal HiFi > MOTU 828x > Speaker build pending.
                                   > Schiit Lyr > Sennheiser HD600 & HD800.

Offline capetownwatches

Re: The McGurk Effect
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2018, 09:48:31 PM »
LCD2F pre-2016 revision. My Precioussss... ;D

Certainly the best entree into the joys of planar IMHO.
And good planars are indeed wondrous things.


Kingrex HQ1-Benchmark DAC1 USB-NFB11.32-Little Dot MKll-SRM252S
LCD2F-HD600-DT990Pro-K612Pro-K240S K171MKll-M4U2-Y50-SR207

Offline Michon

Re: The McGurk Effect
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2018, 10:00:29 PM »
LCD2F pre-2016 revision.

Oh no, another variation that I have to keep in mind when buying a pair. I thought I only need to note fazor and pre-fazor. What was revised after 2016?
Tidal HiFi > MOTU 828x > Speaker build pending.
                                   > Schiit Lyr > Sennheiser HD600 & HD800.

Offline capetownwatches

Re: The McGurk Effect
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2018, 10:10:54 PM »
Driver revision. Thinner membrane, slightly elevated highs. Some argue less bass but the graphs don't bear this out. I've heard these and there's very little in it.

Of course I prefer mine because they're mine...

Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk



Kingrex HQ1-Benchmark DAC1 USB-NFB11.32-Little Dot MKll-SRM252S
LCD2F-HD600-DT990Pro-K612Pro-K240S K171MKll-M4U2-Y50-SR207

Offline Steerpike

Re: The McGurk Effect
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2018, 12:41:27 AM »
I believe ventriloquists make use of this - or rely on it.
There are certain sounds that you just cannot make without using your lips, so the ventriloquist rather produces a similar sound, and relies on context to make the audience mis-hear.


Bar bar bar bar Barbara Ann
Oh Barbara Ann take my hand ...

Offline Doge

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Re: The McGurk Effect
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2018, 02:34:39 AM »
"Deth Dek" lol, I'll have something similar, I just ordered an R2R 11, and I had driver replacements so I'm probably on a 2017 LCD-2 version now.