Author Topic: The death of music  (Read 1850 times)

Offline Trompie67

Re: The death of music
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2018, 08:05:29 AM »

Perhaps the change in focus from creating lasting art to creating quick money, coupled with the realization of marketeers that they can manage and steer popular tastes is at fault.
All the people who love classical music around me are leaving for that gig in the sky, taking that market with them as well.

As mentioned, plus exposure. How many parents today listen to music other than the rubbish from local stations when in the car? How many parents expose their children to music - different genres etc. these days?

Most of my children's friends have at least one TV on in the house all day. Never on music though, always on some DSTV rubbish when Mom or Dad are around, or on SABC when it's just the domestic at home. No gap for music in that cacophony!

Then add in popular culture & peer pressure & it is mainly the junk peddled by the marketers that is listened to.

As opposed to when I grew up - music was a permanent fixture in the house, be it an LP or cassette being played, or the radio. There was always music playing in the house, so I grew up surrounded by it. Add in a grandmother who was an opera singer/performer locally & abroad, aunts & cousins who studied music & always gave "impromptu" recitals/performances when we visited & music was integral to my upbringing.

Nowadays it's TV & mobile devices that capture our children's attention for their time & money.


*Insert profound or witty phrase here*

Offline JonnyP

  • Gearslut Pro
  • Trade Count: (+36)
  • AVForums Grandmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,281
  • Total likes: 11
  • To the centre of the city in the night
Re: The death of music
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2018, 07:25:37 PM »
Classical music is still being composed (eg. Max Richter), the major difference is that it takes years to compose during which the composer has to feed themselves so unless they are an academic or financially ahead of the pack there is little opportunity.  The 18th and 19th centuries (and periods before and after) were fertile periods for composition because of patronage of the composers by the royal and provincial courts.  This pretty much died in the early 20th century (so people like Boulez, Stockhausen and Lygeti were more likely to be academics who also spent time composing rather than full time composers).  Less people are also likely to follow that path as an academic career is not as financially rewarding as becoming a session musician or joining a band.
Are you waiting for loneliness to paralyse? Are you waiting for sister midnight to anaesthetise?

Online AlienLlama

Re: The death of music
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2018, 07:44:20 PM »
The emotions felt through a rap song is just as pure and meaningful as one from a symphonic experience. That is art. You might not feel that emotion or grasp it, but it not a lesser art form. An african percussionist is not a lesser artist than a composer. The day you can define what music/art is, is the day you can compare and judge it. Respect to the guys in the thread who get it.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


Offline JonnyP

  • Gearslut Pro
  • Trade Count: (+36)
  • AVForums Grandmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,281
  • Total likes: 11
  • To the centre of the city in the night
Re: The death of music
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2018, 08:21:40 PM »
^^^Agreed, I watched BCUC at Zakifo with tears in my eyes (euphoria mixed with sadness from the music and lyrics), Iíve experienced the same with opera (Aida as a child in a Roman amphitheater), classical in a proper symphony hall (Tschaikovsky with cannons!), bluesy jazz pop (Tindersticks on their first tour in a church hall), countryish pop/rock (American Music Club playing Fireflies and Blue and Grey Shirt in a crap acoustics venue had me gushing tears whilst smiling), rap (listening to Chuck D at a PE gig on the Fear of a Black Planet tour was an education into his lyrics), all of them amazing experiences, all emotional.
Are you waiting for loneliness to paralyse? Are you waiting for sister midnight to anaesthetise?

Offline Stanp

Re: The death of music
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2018, 09:39:42 PM »
The Oxford definition of music:" Vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion."

I believe my taste in music fits that definition. Cross-over classical being my favourite. These singers can truly sing- their voices are like musical instruments. They are usually accompanied by an orchestra. It is emotionally moving music.

Let me emphasize that this is my view. I do not expect it to be yours. I am expressing my tastes, my opinions.  I am well aware that the majority of forum members are young ie. below 40. So I am sure that many of you like rap and I don't mean to insult your tastes. I simply stated my opinion.

When rock and roll was born; many parents were shocked. Questioned how the young people could possibly like this rubbish. They were mostly listening to classical music and Jazz. So yeah I get it.

When people are rhyming, not singing; it is alien to me.  Singing requires changing pitch, like one can do on an instrument. So to me singing is another musical instrument. To replace rhyming with singing does not do it for me. Hence the reason I personally can not class rap as music. That you class rap as music is your right( And yes, it is technically classed as a form of music). I have no right to state what you should like or dis like, however, I have a right to state my opinion. I don't like black American ghetto culture. I don't like their; dress code, attitude, slang, the way they speak and I most certainly don't like their music.

I realize that  some rap must be better than some other rap; I am not that ignorant', I have been around a while. I simply could not give a damn as it will never be good to me, any of it.

Yes, many of us tend to like the music that we grew up with. A friend of mine is stuck in the 80's. I loved alternative, punk, new wave, romantic, reggae,rock and pop when I was in my twenties. In my 30's my tastes changed to classical, classical cross-over and Jazz. It is not that I now dis like my old music; I just listen to it much less.

I was fortunate that when in my 20's in the 80's many of my friends went on holidays to England; they brought a lot of music back with them that was unheard of hear; some of it banned. The likes of The special A.K.A, their best known song "Free Nelson Mandela"; was definitely banned here.

Jon, out of your list I only know "The Triffids" and "The monks". Both great brands.




Online AlienLlama

Re: The death of music
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2018, 09:49:49 PM »
The Oxford definition of music:" Vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion."

I believe my taste in music fits that definition. Cross-over classical being my favourite. These singers can truly sing- their voices are like musical instruments. They are usually accompanied by an orchestra. It is emotionally moving music.

Let me emphasize that this is my view. I do not expect it to be yours. I am expressing my tastes, my opinions.  I am well aware that the majority of forum members are young ie. below 40. So I am sure that many of you like rap and I don't mean to insult your tastes. I simply stated my opinion.

When rock and roll was born; many parents were shocked. Questioned how the young people could possibly like this rubbish. They were mostly listening to classical music and Jazz. So yeah I get it.

When people are rhyming, not singing; it is alien to me.  Singing requires changing pitch, like one can do on an instrument. So to me singing is another musical instrument. To replace rhyming with singing does not do it for me. Hence the reason I personally can not class rap as music. That you class rap as music is your right( And yes, it is technically classed as a form of music). I have no right to state what you should like or dis like, however, I have a right to state my opinion. I don't like black American ghetto culture. I don't like their; dress code, attitude, slang, the way they speak and I most certainly don't like their music.

I realize that  some rap must be better than some other rap; I am not that ignorant', I have been around a while. I simply could not give a damn as it will never be good to me, any of it.

Yes, many of us tend to like the music that we grew up with. A friend of mine is stuck in the 80's. I loved alternative, punk, new wave, romantic, reggae,rock and pop when I was in my twenties. In my 30's my tastes changed to classical, classical cross-over and Jazz. It is not that I now dis like my old music; I just listen to it much less.

I was fortunate that when in my 20's in the 80's many of my friends went on holidays to England; they brought a lot of music back with them that was unheard of hear; some of it banned. The likes of The special A.K.A, their best known song "Free Nelson Mandela"; was definitely banned here.

Jon, out of your list I only know "The Triffids" and "The monks". Both great brands.
I respect this. However, Bob Dylan is one if ny favourite artists and his music was simply poetic. Musically, his voice is terrible but that doesn't make him a lesser artist. I can fully understand why you dislike the ghetto vibe. We didn't grow up in the same circumstances and rap is merely a way to express themselves and be a reflection of their reality. So if you grew up in the 1970s and you were early 20s and you were in the thick of the apartheid era, obviously you would find an attraction towards struggle songs. I don't believe most people are under 40 in this forum. I think most are over 45. I do believe that  only people under the age of 26 will like rap on this forum. I'll leave you with a famous qoute from Post Malone :  ďIf youíre looking for lyrics, if youíre looking to cry, if youíre looking to think about life, donít listen to hip-hop"

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


Offline JonnyP

  • Gearslut Pro
  • Trade Count: (+36)
  • AVForums Grandmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,281
  • Total likes: 11
  • To the centre of the city in the night
Re: The death of music
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2018, 10:36:59 PM »
Iím 47 and have loved hip hop and rap since about 1982/3, what grabbed me? Ďthe Messageí by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five (ĎA child is born with no state of mind, blind to the ways of mankind, God is smiling on you but heís laughing too, Ďcos only God knows what youíre gonna do, gonna grow up in the ghetto feeling second rate, and your eyes will sing a song of deep hate...etc).

There is a lot of shite out there (as with every other genre - for every Nirvana there is a Stone Temple Pilots, for every Augustus Pablo there is an Aswad, for every Sugarbabes thereís a Spice Girls.  Never give up though, Iím still learning about older music and still seeking out newer music in all genres.  Itís only about ten years that Iíve really understood and appreciated jazz (my folks listened to very trad stuff, I love some and have grown in my taste to Monk, Coleman and Coltrane amongst others).

Give everything a chance

Edit: I have a very catholic taste in music.  I grew up with the radio, Joan Baez (who I still cannot stand), The Beatles, Louis Armstrong and kitsch 70s pop like Captain and Tenille.  I got into African music and dub/reggae in Kenya as a kid along with Bollywood tunes and 80s pop.  Then discovered John Peelís BBC world service show.  So it was charts and weird in the 80s (I still remember hearing ĎTrumpton Riotsí on the radio)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 10:51:17 PM by JonnyP »
Are you waiting for loneliness to paralyse? Are you waiting for sister midnight to anaesthetise?

Offline naughty

Re: The death of music
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2018, 11:03:53 PM »
Give everything a chance

cant really say it better than that

music tastes are going to differ - what one person loves is going to be considered "sh!t gone bad bad for a month" by someone else but i really really do subscribe to JonnyP's statement up above because somewhere, someday you might begin to "get it" in terms of alternative genre's

as for that definition of music i dont really prescribe to that ie theres so much more to it and the definition ignores so many things like for example that people dance to music and i defy anyone to dance to Bob Dylan  :nfi:

i listen to music that suits my mood - theres times that i just want to "boogie down" and booble my head like one of those bobble head dolls .... and theres times i just want to sit down and reflect on life - and theres definitely different types of music for each mood that you have so as stated above i give everything a chance .... even if it isnt my favourite genre .... though as you grow up your tastes will change from time to time

as far as Rap goes i do find merit in certain types of it though the hardcore "Gangsta variety" about people wanting to shoot each other mainly over drugs is generally offensive to me because the drug habit is something i also dont prescribe to but not all rap is of that variety - and a lot of the hip-hop and Rap music uses samples and riffs from older R&B and Funk that i grew up with .... so i can relate to some of it ... in the same way that i can relate to some of the Rock, Rock and Roll, Blues, Folk and country music that i really wasnt brought up with ... and i cant bring myself to call any of those genres that i wasnt brought up with "garbage" even though i wont listen to them as regularly as i would to the stuff that i was brought up with

Offline KenMasters

Re: The death of music
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2018, 05:33:56 AM »
I don't like black American ghetto culture. I don't like their; dress code, attitude, slang, the way they speak and I most certainly don't like their music.

I realize that  some rap must be better than some other rap; I am not that ignorant', I have been around a while. I simply could not give a damn as it will never be good to me, any of it.

This is to suppose that hip-hop is ghetto and ghetto only, which it is not. It was born from the ghetto, same as much of the great american music, jazz to blues to rock, and similarly there's great diversity within the genre today, a wide range of people from a wide range of cultures rapping about a wide range of topics. To think otherwise is ignorant. There are also a number of rappers who happen to sing quite beautifully and do so on their albums.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 05:54:55 AM by KenMasters »

Offline Tobes

  • Trade Count: (+34)
  • AVForums Grandmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,289
  • Total likes: 0
  • Music on....world off
Re: The death of music
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2018, 06:08:31 AM »
Give everything a chance

Nope sorry, I'm with Stanp on this one. I hate rap with a passion, I just can't handle it. Not Kanye West, not Jack Parrow and certainly not Eminem or any other - never gonna happen  :puke:
Music is all around us, all you have to do is listen....

Offline Tobes

  • Trade Count: (+34)
  • AVForums Grandmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,289
  • Total likes: 0
  • Music on....world off
Re: The death of music
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2018, 06:14:53 AM »
There are also a number of rappers who happen to sing quite beautifully and do so on their albums.

I'm actually contradicting myself here as to what I said above and I doubt I'll go past 10 seconds, but please enlighten me with a clip of what is beautiful rap.....
Music is all around us, all you have to do is listen....

Offline 2wice

Re: The death of music
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2018, 06:41:31 AM »

Offline KenMasters

Re: The death of music
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2018, 06:43:25 AM »
I'm actually contradicting myself here as to what I said above and I doubt I'll go past 10 seconds, but please enlighten me with a clip of what is beautiful rap.....

I said sing beautifully, not rap beautifully, but I can give examples of both and also try illustrate the diversity.

First up, Aesop Rock, a veteran with a discography spanning decades:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHYhzg8QWbI

Another veteran, Phonte, rapper and crooner extraordinaire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWX2bXLHXjs

You've got Chance with a cracking, imploring character to his voice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be37-T72DNk

Sonically different from what you may expect of the genre, we have Death Grips, wait for the change up at the 1:30 mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cinJDxLUsNY

And for the ultimate in diversity within a group, you have Brockhampton, a large rap collective out of Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nWYiEq4wd0

« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 06:56:40 AM by KenMasters »

Offline fdlsys

  • Vinylist
  • Trader
  • Trade Count: (+86)
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,957
  • Total likes: 27
  • Do you like life, sweetheart?
Re: The death of music
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2018, 08:05:48 AM »
Toby, don't fall for it like I naively did.
I'll rather subject myself to Adelle covers
https://youtu.be/sMm75BosFLY
the whole day long than spend another 3 minutes on shyt like the above. What a waste.  Heck, by far the best was the muppet!
The four building blocks of the universe are fire, water, gravel and vinyl. Dave Barry
Come back when youíve lived a little. Miles Davis

Offline KenMasters

Re: The death of music
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2018, 08:56:38 AM »
Toby, don't fall for it like I naively did.
I'll rather subject myself to Adelle covers
https://youtu.be/sMm75BosFLY
the whole day long than spend another 3 minutes on shyt like the above. What a waste.  Heck, by far the best was the muppet!

Adele does sing beautifully, we played a lot of "Hello" in this house when it came out, my wife's also keen on Sam Smith and Norah Jones. Personally Agnes Obel and Tori Amos are more my jam.

I try to keep myself open to as much new music as possible, a big fear is to end up one of those people who can't appreciate anything outside of what they enjoyed prior to turning 30. I even bought a metal album in an attempt to appreciate the genre a bit better (Ghost - Meliora). Rap fans are no different, you get guys that won't listen to any hip-hop that doesn't sound like it came out of the nineties.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 09:02:59 AM by KenMasters »