Author Topic: The death of music  (Read 2133 times)

Offline stereoholic

Re: The death of music
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2018, 01:09:22 PM »
90's were lean years except for bands like Sparklehorse, Nirvana and to a lesser extent Radiohead and Pearl Jam.

Offline Stanp

Re: The death of music
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2018, 01:39:13 PM »
^^^ yes, they were pretty lean indeed.
Thanks for the input KM. Yes, rap did start around the late seventies, so it has been around for a long time. Well, it hasn't grown on me. Thanks, watched the vid. In my opinion rap is rubbish. Rubbish lylics, rubbish singing, just plain rubbish. I am grateful that I was young in the 80's and was not exposed to rap. I consider the following music; beautiful music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3QLXJBDo88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0OwLIY9moA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmezIIrFQmY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdeOVKT02Fk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh1C1VDlmmk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opkzgLMH5MA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtTsky80XmQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGyQmH9NZcw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuuObGsB0No
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHISaPkPagU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpA_5a0miWk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdvZa46xb3M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmwMhjbThKg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJeWySiuq1I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQiOA7euaYA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rOiW_xY-kc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzSEd7eN0Ik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGSKrC7dGcY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5XJ2GiR6Bo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPudE8nDog0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYQTL-ws6p4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zkjQVh5KmQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJc_q8eH2ng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BglEyv5O2Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nxQLJmshak
The list could be very long but I have just shown a few

https://www.facebook.com/Share.It.Pics/photos/a.179135958884882.40880.179133545551790/834877493310722/?type=3&theater

Need I say  more

« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 01:54:33 PM by Stanp »

Offline KenMasters

Re: The death of music
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2018, 02:10:02 PM »
Thanks for the input KM. Yes, rap did start around the late seventies, so it has been around for a long time. Well, it hasn't grown on me. Thanks, watched the vid. In my opinion rap is rubbish. Rubbish lylics, rubbish singing, just plain rubbish. I am grateful that I was young in the 80's and was not exposed to rap.

I'm not a fan of the music you enjoy, but I know enough to know there is something to appreciate in most any musical genre. Just as I know a single style or theme doesn't encompass any one genre. If you grew up in South Africa during the 80's you wouldn't have been exposed to rap because of the regime at the time. I had a few tapes I managed to get my hands on through people that had travelled overseas and listened to them obsessively. I try to keep an open ear but to this day it's still hip-hop that dominates my listening time - though my taste does tend towards the esoteric.

Offline Tobes

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Re: The death of music
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2018, 03:50:33 PM »
In my opinion rap is rubbish. Rubbish lylics, rubbish singing, just plain rubbish.

I have to agree with you there. Then it's also the scew caps, sagging pants and half a jewelry shop that is worn....
Music is all around us, all you have to do is listen....

Offline naughty

Re: The death of music
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2018, 04:36:35 PM »
look im not a huge fan of Rap but neither am i huge fan of Rock or Alternative - but i will never go so far as to call any music bad because IMHO everyone has different tastes

its like cars - no matter how bad the car is the saying always remains that that "theres a bum for every seat" so no matter how bad you consider the music to be there are millions of others who love that stuff and they all can't be wrong  :nfi:  .... and as Ken Masters is trying to convey that there is merit in most forms of music (for someone else if not for you) which doesnt mean that music is dying because it is around in some form or the other and if its a form that you dont like then just simply stick to listening to what you do like  :thumbs: i think that it is great that in the modern world we have so many choices whereas in the past radio stations and record execs used to restrict choices to what they felt should be listened to 

i think that its difficult to imagine that everyone is going to like the same form of music and its also unrealistic to expect everyone to agree and try to convert to a form that you like .... its basically like trying to tell someone they need to convert from their religion to your type and in the end all that does is cause strife and discord

Offline KenMasters

Re: The death of music
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2018, 05:19:48 PM »
I have to agree with you there. Then it's also the scew caps, sagging pants and half a jewelry shop that is worn....

Depends on the artist, just as every rocker doesn't strut with flowing hair running down his back with an unbuttoned shirt tucked into tight jeans while habitually gesturing towards his man bulge. There's a certain look, attitude and lifestyle we associate with rock music, but it doesn't mean it's true of every performer within the genre - and of those that do prescribe to the look, does it take away from the artistic merit of their music?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 05:23:42 PM by KenMasters »

Offline 2wice

Re: The death of music
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2018, 05:28:49 PM »
There's good music in every genre.
I'm not a fan of rap but looking at someone like Beat Assailant I'll admit there is skill there.
Then looking at the WTF of the mumble rappers where the subculture is hated on by most, except the brain dead followers.

Offline JonnyP

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Re: The death of music
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2018, 07:39:00 PM »
Each genre has greats and not so greats in the same way as each decade has great albums and not so great albums (and the odd one hit wonder).  There is still a lot of great music being made in a variety of styles/genres which cannot be waved off with sweeping statements.  For me, one of the most overlooked bands of the nineties may be someone else’s worst band etc.  Same with the eighties, seventies and sixties, noughties and this decade.  I left the fifties off as I don’t have much from that decade (but there were some jazz and blues greats and the birth of rock and roll).  A few names that may be less known from each decade and various genres:

1960s - The Monks, Indian Summer, Wali and the Caravan, Embryo, Amon Duul
1970s - PFM, Nurse With Wound, Scientist, Scientists, Gil Scott Heron, Can, Ashra Tempel, Amon Duul 2, Throbbing Gristle
1980s - Josef K, L. Voag, Current 93, EPMD, BDP, Frazier Chorus, Gore, Swans, Sugarcubes, The Triffids, Coil, Psychic TV
1990s - Blade, Bang Bang Machine, Mogwai, The Catchers, Friends of Dean Martínez, Earth, Aqua, 2 Bad Mice, Disposable Heroes of Hiphopracy, My Bloody Valentine
2000s - Felix Laband, The Delgados, Spiritualized, Avalanches, Mastodon, Swans (again!), Akron/Family, Low
2010s - Frank Ocean, Kendrick Lamar, The Comet Is Coming, Moon Duo, Odd Future Wolfgang Kill Them All, Six Organs of Admittance, Loma, John Grant/Creep Show, CCCL

And many more
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Offline JonnyP

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Re: The death of music
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2018, 07:56:49 PM »
I have to agree with you there. Then it's also the scew caps, sagging pants and half a jewelry shop that is worn....

I got a letter from the government
The other day
I opened and read it
It said they were suckers
They wanted me for their army or whatever
Picture me given' a damn, I said never
Here is a land that never gave a damn
About a brother like me and myself
Because they never did
I wasn't wit' it, but just that very minute
It occurred to me
The suckers had authority
Cold sweatin' as I dwell in my cell
How long has it been?
They got me sittin' in the state pen
I gotta get out, but that thought was thought before
I contemplated a plan on the cell floor
I'm not a fugitive on the run
But a brother like me begun, to be another one
Public enemy servin' time, they drew the line y'all
To criticize me some crime, never the less
They could not understand that I'm a Black man
And I could never be a veteran
On the strength, the situation's unreal
I got a raw deal, so I'm goin' for the steel
They got me rottin' in the time that I'm servin'
Tellin' you what happened the same time they're throwin'
Four of us packed in a cell like slaves, oh well
The same motherfucker got us livin' is his hell
You have to realize, what its a form of slavery
Organized under a swarm of devils
Straight up, word 'em up on the level
The reasons are several, most of them federal
Here is my plan anyway and I say
I got gusto, but only some I can trust, yo
Some do a bid from one to ten
And I never did, and plus I never been
I'm on a tier where no tears should ever fall
Cell block and locked, I never clock it y'all
'Cause time and time again time
They got me servin' to those and to them
I'm not a citizen
But ever when I catch a see-O
Sleepin' on the job, my plan is on go-ahead
On the strength, I'ma tell you the deal
I got nothin' to lose
'Cause I'm goin' for the steel
You know I caught a C-O
Fallin' asleep on death row
I grabbed his gun, then he did what I said so
And everyman's got served
Along with the time they served
Decency was deserved
To understand my demands
I gave a warnin', I wanted the governor, y'all
And plus the warden to know
That I was innocent,
Because I'm militant
Posing a threat, you bet it's flippin' up the government
My plan said I had to get out and break north
Just like with Oliver's neck
I had to get off, my boys had the feds in check
They couldn't do nothin'
We had a force to instigate a prison riot
This is what it takes for peace
So I just took the piece
Black for Black inside time to cut the leash
Freedom to get out, to the ghetto, no sell out
6 see-Os we got we ought to put their head out
But I'll give 'em a chance, 'cause I'm civilized
As for the rest of the world, they can't realize
A cell is hell, I'm a rebel so I rebel
Between bars, got me thinkin' like an animal
Got a woman C-O to call me a copter
She tried to get away, and I popped her
Twice, right
Now who want to get nice?
I had six C-O's, now it's 5 to go
And I'm serious, call me delirious
But I'm still a captive
I gotta rap this
Time to break as time grows intense
I got the steel in my right hand
Now I'm lookin' for the fence
I ventured into the courtyard
Followed by fifty two brothers
Bruised, battered, and scarred but hard
Goin' out with a bang
Ready to bang out
But power from the sky
And from the tower shots rang out
A high number of dose, yes
And some came close
Figure I trigger my steel
Stand and hold my post
This is what I mean, an anti-nigger machine
If I come out alive and then they won't, come clean
And then I threw up my steel bullets, flew up
Blew up, who shot
What, who, the bazooka was who
And to my rescue, it was the S1Ws
Secured my getaway, so I just got away
The joint broke, from the black smoke
Then they saw it was rougher that the average bluffer
'Cause the steel was black, the attitude exact
Now the chase is on tellin' you to c'mon
53 brothers on the run, and we are gone

Public Enemy - Black Steel In The Hour of Chaos

Versus

Country Joe and the Fish at Woodstock

The PE lyrics are much more eloquent, the music is stark and minimal (as opposed to a hippy singalong)

Maybe not everyone’s taste but far beyond the image being portrayed


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Offline Tenflare

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Re: The death of music
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2018, 09:00:40 PM »
A lot of hip kids I meet ("kid" to me equals anyone younger than 25) have told me that they wish they could have grown up in the 90's when music was good. They must imagine that we only had hardcore gangster rap, cutting edge electronica, and grunge alternative on 5FM, instead of The Macarena, Backstreet Boys, Dr. Alban, and the Spice Girls. Sure, Nirvana, Massive Attack, Paul Van Dyk, Tupac, BIG, Alice In Chains, Robert Miles, Joe Satriani, Radiohead, Smashing Pumpkins, etc are all considered seminal now, but how many of those acts were truly mainstream in their day?

As for modern music -- the radio is largely a cesspool of overly compressed loudness-war crap. But a quick squiz at Deezer/TIDAL will reveal that there are literally thousands of artists out there who deserve our attention as music lovers because even modern musicians can push the boundaries of instrument & voice. Lorde, Kendrick Lamar, and Lana Del Rey are obvious examples (their singles tend to penetrate the zeitgeist from time to time) but there certainly are more fantastic artists out there today than there have ever been before.

Of course, we can never hear the new music with the same ears that we used to hear the old. Biology plays a part because hearing does deteriorate but from a more subjective standpoint, we love music from our own eras because they harken back to when we were bright-eyed and hopeful. Those songs are anthems that we have real attachments to. They represent tangible, emotional things to us that we experienced for the first time. What new experiences can a married parent with a car and a mortgage associate with music? Very little, I'm afraid.

I don't think music is dead. I think we as listeners need to learn to let go from time to time in order to embrace change. This doesn't mean going out and getting Drake and Bieber albums, but it means finding new examples of what made us fall in love with music in the first place. Most of us do this with our gear anyway, and just like gear, I guarantee that you will find something if you just look.
Never use a graph when a good metaphor will do...

Offline KenMasters

Re: The death of music
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2018, 09:12:51 PM »
...we love music from our own eras because they harken back to when we were bright-eyed and hopeful. Those songs are anthems that we have real attachments to. They represent tangible, emotional things to us that we experienced for the first time. What new experiences can a married parent with a car and a mortgage associate with music? Very little, I'm afraid.

I don't think music is dead. I think we as listeners need to learn to let go from time to time in order to embrace change. This doesn't mean going out and getting Drake and Bieber albums, but it means finding new examples of what made us fall in love with music in the first place. Most of us do this with our gear anyway, and just like gear, I guarantee that you will find something if you just look.

Well said.

Offline legro

Re: The death of music
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2018, 09:22:30 PM »
^^ Indeed.

Even if this thread demonstrates that one man's art is the next one's dud, the good stuff are  ( still ) out there.

As with most good things in our age of information overload, it may just be hard to find amongst all the noise.

Offline AlienLlama

Re: The death of music
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2018, 10:01:35 PM »
We've had this in an earlier thread. If you disrespect something you don't understand, it shows ignorance. Yes there is a lot of crap on radio nowadays, but there was a lot of crap on radio 40 years ago too. People listen to the big hits on the pop charts and think that was the best era for music, disregarding all the other crap that was on the radio in that period. Music doesn't have to be just a soul awakening experience. I listen to different types of genres and different types of songs depending on my mood. If you're 50 and can't relate to rap music , I totally understand. It doesn't fit your lifestyle. But saying it's not music is grossly ignorant. That's like saying metal is just growling and EDM just for doing ecstacy in clubs. Just to add... A certain amount nostalgia also contributes to that warm feeling you get when you listen to older music.  I also believe that as people get older they reminisce about "better times" and don't try to keep up with the latest music.

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Offline Ampdog

Re: The death of music
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2018, 02:50:53 AM »
WOW!!

As a kind of odd-man-out to most of the 'music' (not indicating 'derogatory', will explain later) mentioned here, let me firstly say that for those of us finding more delight in classical music (again not a "high stance", simply my taste) I can agree on at least one point: Pityfully little has been produced (as in originated) in this genre as well over recent decades.

There must be a reason why the type of music I like has survived for several centuries, just to be left behind in recent decades. (And not simply because of 'change' in taste/attitude/whatever; there has been far greater change in centuries gone by than over the last say 60 years).

Perhaps one thought: Define music!  as in contrast to 'expression'. The most I can call some rap and such (still not derogatory) is 'expressionism'. I won't try to define it myself, but there is a difference between music in the classic way and the way some creates 'expressionism' and make that popular. Moving harmonious tones/chords broadly relates to music .... again not beginning to define 'music', but as with almost everything, there must be a limit somewhere to what applies. In that sense: Is 'music' then disappearing (steering clear of the emotional term 'dying').  Would one one day say eg. rap is 'dying' (should that happen), or would one simply say it is disappearing?  How did our forefathers (meaning centuries, perhaps millenia ago) generate whatever to 'stir their souls'?

This is a quite wide multifacetted .... er - what ..... subject. And these just spontaneous thoughts floating through my mind

.... which at least means that this is a very interesting thread, and the views expressed so far (i.a. thanks Nidri!) all quite thought-provoking!
 ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D   
Audio must be the only branch of engineering where lack of basics' knowledge is considered a superior form of wisdom. (Anon)

Offline 2wice

Re: The death of music
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2018, 06:36:43 AM »


There must be a reason why the type of music I like has survived for several centuries, just to be left behind in recent decades

Perhaps the change in focus from creating lasting art to creating quick money, coupled with the realization of marketeers that they can manage and steer popular tastes is at fault.
All the people who love classical music around me are leaving for that gig in the sky, taking that market with them as well.