Author Topic: Loss of detail at low volume - hardware or hearing?  (Read 714 times)

Offline seeyou

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Re: Loss of detail at low volume - hardware or hearing?
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM »
The best option for you is to then implement DSP via hardware ,digital in and digital out for the least damage ..out to feed your dac via spdif

..snip..

The only fly in the oinkment is the that plugin runs on either windows or mac .... not sure about ubuntu .. im a linux dufus
I have a 2x8, ministreamer and the plugin , you are welcome to try them

I'm going to test out the linux version of JRiver a little later and see if/what it offers in terms of streaming integration. If that doesn't pan out - I might have to look at a separate Windows streamer machine with a hardware setup like you've suggested.

Offline Rodney_gold

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Re: Loss of detail at low volume - hardware or hearing?
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2018, 04:57:14 PM »
You only need the plugin to set the minidsp stuff up , once you finished  you disconnect the puter afterwards so you would only need a bloze or mac for that..afterwards its a stand alone device

They have 4 slots for various presets and you can teach the unit to respond to a remote to select these , to control volume and input sources
Roon/tidal > Squeezebox touch> Trinnov St2 >2x Devialet D premiers>  Vivid audio Giya G1 spirits ..fully treated room

Offline Simango4

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Re: Loss of detail at low volume - hardware or hearing?
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2018, 08:37:50 AM »
Ok...I know this might be odd but I've proved this before...and it's my one and only reason why I prefer ripped music files over streaming.

Spotify is most likely your problem! :sh1tstirrer:

Spotify's sound quality is compromised like Youtube and Soundcoud...especially its bass tightness/slam.

I'd recommend you try getting hold of ripped MP3 (192 or 320kbps) or WAV or FLAC etc. version of the same tracks you were playing when you noticed the abnormalities, then try an A-B playback test with your Spotify streamed version, you'll be surprised.

Spotify, youtube and Soundcloud are IMHO :cr@p: for a revealing system!

“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline bearenzo

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Re: Loss of detail at low volume - hardware or hearing?
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2018, 11:19:49 AM »
Ok...I know this might be odd but I've proved this before...and it's my one and only reason why I prefer ripped music files over streaming.

Spotify is most likely your problem! :sh1tstirrer:

Spotify's sound quality is compromised like Youtube and Soundcoud...especially its bass tightness/slam.

I'd recommend you try getting hold of ripped MP3 (192 or 320kbps) or WAV or FLAC etc. version of the same tracks you were playing when you noticed the abnormalities, then try an A-B playback test with your Spotify streamed version, you'll be surprised.

Spotify, youtube and Soundcloud are IMHO :cr@p: for a revealing system!


I was in a family place last week, he is using
Audio Research pre amp
Musical Fidelity A370-2 power amp
Martin Logan Request speakers
with Spotify through ipad

I was there for 5 hours, and listening all kind of music from pop to Jazz to classical. .......and nothing impressive.
Not a single track can get me into music.  :puke:
 
What a waste of his hi end equipment, I believe even a entry level cd player like Rotel RCD-955AX will sound much better than Spotify through iPad.


Offline Simango4

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Re: Loss of detail at low volume - hardware or hearing?
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2018, 01:43:53 PM »

I was in a family place last week, he is using
Audio Research pre amp
Musical Fidelity A370-2 power amp
Martin Logan Request speakers
with Spotify through ipad

I was there for 5 hours, and listening all kind of music from pop to Jazz to classical. .......and nothing impressive.
Not a single track can get me into music.  :puke:
 
What a waste of his hi end equipment, I believe even a entry level cd player like Rotel RCD-955AX will sound much better than Spotify through iPad.

Interestingly enough, a lot of owners fall into this convenient "streaming" services trap (I wonder how network players compare to decent ripped and stored audio files, logic tells me not to expect any magic because "garbage in" = "garbage out")

Any one with a network player like the Cambridge Audio CXN range who can give us feedback on an A-B test between it and a ripped disc audio files stored and played via a PC...preferably 192kbps mp3 or WAV equivalent just to be fair to the streamer. :flame:
“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline d0dja

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Re: Loss of detail at low volume - hardware or hearing?
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2018, 01:58:25 PM »
Something else to consider is where you are controlling the volume - in the digital or analogue domain. Depending on how the digital volume control is done (i.e. if you turn down the volume on your media player, not on your pre-amp) it could result in a loss of resolution (poss increased quantising noise), and possibly result in the SNR decreasing slightly where signal is attenuated but noise floor stays the same.

Good article on this here: http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Intro/SQ/VolumeControl.htm

Take this all with a pinch of salt, its VERY much dependant on the specific implementation.

Offline King_Julian_S

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Re: Loss of detail at low volume - hardware or hearing?
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2018, 04:23:51 PM »
But I also heard that an amp is optimal with volume full out  in most cases... so I’ve always wondered is it then not better to set the amp full out and control say your streamer to your desired level ?

The normal thinking is the opposite as mentioned above ...

I do find that with SET and HE speakers I don’t have that problem as blatant as was with previous setups .. but I could be biased here so also take it with a pinch of salt ne




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Non audiophile music lover...

Offline Ampdog

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Re: Loss of detail at low volume - hardware or hearing?
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2018, 05:51:24 AM »
Already partly answered ....

Amplifiers (in fact most electronic audio equipment) are linear, at least to an audible extent.This has nothing to do with what signal amplitude is used (barring of course overloading the amp!) ...

You do not state wheter is is frequency dependant. If more in the lower frequencies, it is 90% certain to be that the ear's decreasing sensitivity to low frequencies plays a role. (Look up the already mention Flecher-Munson equal loudness-graphs.) 
Audio must be the only branch of engineering where lack of basics' knowledge is considered a superior form of wisdom. (Anon)

Offline d0dja

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Re: Loss of detail at low volume - hardware or hearing?
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2018, 10:59:41 AM »
But I also heard that an amp is optimal with volume full out  in most cases... so I’ve always wondered is it then not better to set the amp full out and control say your streamer to your desired level ?

Everything sounds better full-blast. Fletcher-Munson and all.

There are two ways to control volume. Either in digital domain (i.e. your music player app outputs a lower level signal to the DAC, or there is control over the DAC itself) which results in a lower magnitude signal being fed to your preamp; or in the analogue domain where the full line level from your DAC is attenuated at your pre-amp. Or combination of both.

As Ampdog says, an attenuator should (if it's good quality) be linear and not introduce appreciable cross-talk, noise, etc. The power amp is always "full out" (i.e. it has no attenuator controls, it takes whatever its fed and adds the fixed gain that it is designed to add).

That being said, I replaced a good Alps pot on my pre with a switched L2R ladder volume control in one of Jimgore's small signal controllers as I measured a LOT of crosstalk in the pot.

I'd think it better to create the highest possible level output from your source, so that the SNR is highest going down the connectors into the preamp, but also to prevent any of the (potential) digital domain artefacts of reducing volume in the player app.

But maybe experiment to see which sounds better...