Author Topic: 8K TV around the corner?  (Read 4339 times)

Offline 2wice

Re: 8K TV around the corner?
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2018, 08:02:18 PM »
Around someone else's corner is the only way I'll ever see this.

Offline matthieup

Re: 8K TV around the corner?
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2018, 10:52:29 AM »
I agree the issue with UHD might be the calibration, but when you spend that kind of many it should be setup good to go.
It's like if you go buy a car and the steering is loose and wheels not aligned... shouldn't happen

Offline KenMasters

Re: 8K TV around the corner?
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2018, 11:38:53 AM »
I agree the issue with UHD might be the calibration, but when you spend that kind of many it should be setup good to go.
It's like if you go buy a car and the steering is loose and wheels not aligned... shouldn't happen

In recent years TVs have been very good in their accurate modes (Cinema / Movie / Expert / Pro). That's not how they're set in store through, there they're in their Dynamic / Vivid shop mode, which switches on the full suite of picture "enhancements" in order to attract the eye and differentiate their TVs from their competitors.

Offline Simango4

Re: 8K TV around the corner?
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2018, 09:38:00 AM »
Good news for us late adopters from a price drop of old tech point of view...I'm still in the 1080p age and only planning to go 4k HDR OLED once LG's TV prices, nVidia GTX1080 prices and 4k HDR projectors become reasonable for my pocket.

I don't get the hype with high resolutions such as 8k given that a lot of people who bought 4k TVs don't even use the 4k capabilities enough to justify the expense.

People with high end gaming PCs and fiber-optic based internet connections can justify the 4k TVs purchase, but I'm not sure about 8k though.

However, those with current consoles like Xbox, PS & Nintendo etc. and DSTV decoders just can't fairly justify the purchase. As much as current consoles advertise 4k capability, they barely play in 4k (most of the gaming titles are locked to 1080p or even 900p / 720p or variants below 1080p in order to maintain playable frame rates, only a handful play at 4k resolution.
Music is What Feelings Sound Like...
You Don't Stop Gaming Because you Grow Old, You Grow Old Because you Stop Gaming...

Offline Morne Coetzee

  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • AVForums Super Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 740
  • Total likes: 11
  • POWER | PRECISION | PURITY
Re: 8K TV around the corner?
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2018, 09:55:11 PM »
@KenMasters first I am crazy about your passion for the "video" side of AV so thanks for that 👍 Can you maybe (and I think you had before) explain the terms of UHD (as on Netflix) UHD Discs and Native 4K content? The reason I asked is that I have noticed a significant dirrerence in picture quality between what is considered a downloaded/ torrent/ripped UHD/4K content and so called Native 4K content. Most noticably the file size of the streams or download is 4GB vs Native 4K for the same movie is 50GB. Samsung once sold a HDD with around 6 or so movies Native 4K for around R4000!!! I happened to get hold of one of those drives when they went on sale and I have never seen anything like that available since.
There is Always justification for more Amplification!

Offline naughty

Re: 8K TV around the corner?
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2018, 12:20:26 AM »
I agree the issue with UHD might be the calibration, but when you spend that kind of many it should be setup good to go.
It's like if you go buy a car and the steering is loose and wheels not aligned... shouldn't happen

nope - you are absolutely incorrect - because rooms and lighting conditions differ - so you want to calibrate on your own starting from the base settings (ie the "accurate mode" settings that Kenmasters describes above)

its more like going to buy a car and you have to correct the seat adjustments because not everyone is the same shortness or tallness and fatness .... and also adjusting rear view mirror angles etc .... and nowadays your normal TV has that higher resolution as standard and you are not spending any extra money over and above what your regular 1080p full HD sets were selling for a year or two ago, so it cannot be described as "that kind of money" because it isnt any extra - in fact some sizes of UHD TV are cheaper than what their full HD counterparts of equivalent size were a year or two ago

Offline KenMasters

Re: 8K TV around the corner?
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2018, 06:59:00 AM »
@KenMasters first I am crazy about your passion for the "video" side of AV so thanks for that 👍 Can you maybe (and I think you had before) explain the terms of UHD (as on Netflix) UHD Discs and Native 4K content?

Thanks! Unfortunately the introduction of Ultra HD was messy, leading to a lot of confusion, but it's actually very simple. "Ultra HD" is the TV standard that replaces "HDTV", it offers two new resolutions, 4K and 8K, new frame rates of 100/120fps, a much wider colour gamut (which currently we can only take advantage of a small portion of), 10 & 12 bit colour depths and a new EOTF (what we refer to as gamma) which requires much higher peak brightness (10 000 nits is the target).

The resolution is the obvious part, the elements outside of that and the new refresh rates have fallen under the blanket term "HDR". 4K and HDR are not separate entities, they exists as part of the single Ultra HD format - if it is Ultra HD it is HDR.

The reason for the confusion was that manufacturers were eager to get the ball rolling on the new standard to stimulate sales. So without the actual standard having been established yet, they pushed HDTVs with 4K resolutions as "UHD" TVs. The first Ultra HDTVs were introduced in 2016, but by then "UHD" had irreparably muddied the water with most people's understanding of the new standard being about 4K rather than the more thorough overhaul it actually is (not helped by all the 4K Rec. 709 [HDTV] content floating about) - to the point that Ultra HD BDs are still labled "4K Ultra HD" where really the 4K should not be required (and technically incorrect as most Ultra HD content is not 4K).

So maybe I went and made a simple thing sound more complicated than it is, but it's really as simple as we had the HDTV standard (Rec. 709) and now we have Ultra HD (Rec. 2020). UHD and Native 4k have no place in the nomenclature. The extra resolution is there so that we should no longer have to worry about resolution and the other elements are there in order to render images as the human eye perceives the world, as opposed to the limitations of CRT rendering, which is what all previous standards were based on.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 07:09:54 AM by KenMasters »

Offline matthieup

Re: 8K TV around the corner?
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2018, 07:16:45 AM »
nope - you are absolutely incorrect - because rooms and lighting conditions differ - so you want to calibrate on your own starting from the base settings (ie the "accurate mode" settings that Kenmasters describes above)

its more like going to buy a car and you have to correct the seat adjustments because not everyone is the same shortness or tallness and fatness .... and also adjusting rear view mirror angles etc .... and nowadays your normal TV has that higher resolution as standard and you are not spending any extra money over and above what your regular 1080p full HD sets were selling for a year or two ago, so it cannot be described as "that kind of money" because it isnt any extra - in fact some sizes of UHD TV are cheaper than what their full HD counterparts of equivalent size were a year or two ago
Good point

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


Offline wesrobb

Re: 8K TV around the corner?
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2018, 04:25:32 PM »
Thanks! Unfortunately the introduction of Ultra HD was messy, leading to a lot of confusion, but it's actually very simple. "Ultra HD" is the TV standard that replaces "HDTV", it offers two new resolutions, 4K and 8K, new frame rates of 100/120fps, a much wider colour gamut (which currently we can only take advantage of a small portion of), 10 & 12 bit colour depths and a new EOTF (what we refer to as gamma) which requires much higher peak brightness (10 000 nits is the target).

The resolution is the obvious part, the elements outside of that and the new refresh rates have fallen under the blanket term "HDR". 4K and HDR are not separate entities, they exists as part of the single Ultra HD format - if it is Ultra HD it is HDR.

The reason for the confusion was that manufacturers were eager to get the ball rolling on the new standard to stimulate sales. So without the actual standard having been established yet, they pushed HDTVs with 4K resolutions as "UHD" TVs. The first Ultra HDTVs were introduced in 2016, but by then "UHD" had irreparably muddied the water with most people's understanding of the new standard being about 4K rather than the more thorough overhaul it actually is (not helped by all the 4K Rec. 709 [HDTV] content floating about) - to the point that Ultra HD BDs are still labled "4K Ultra HD" where really the 4K should not be required (and technically incorrect as most Ultra HD content is not 4K).

So maybe I went and made a simple thing sound more complicated than it is, but it's really as simple as we had the HDTV standard (Rec. 709) and now we have Ultra HD (Rec. 2020). UHD and Native 4k have no place in the nomenclature. The extra resolution is there so that we should no longer have to worry about resolution and the other elements are there in order to render images as the human eye perceives the world, as opposed to the limitations of CRT rendering, which is what all previous standards were based on.

This is probably the best explanation of Ultra HD I have seen. It makes thing way more clear now. I understood 4K and HDR but not the idea behind the Ultra HD moniker.

Offline Simango4

Re: 8K TV around the corner?
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2018, 12:01:07 PM »
..."Ultra HD" is the TV standard that replaces "HDTV", it offers two new resolutions, 4K and 8K...

....they pushed HDTVs with 4K resolutions as "UHD" TVs. The first Ultra HDTVs were introduced in 2016, but by then "UHD" had irreparably muddied the water with most people's understanding of the new standard being about 4K rather than the more thorough overhaul it actually is (not helped by all the 4K Rec. 709 [HDTV] content floating about) - to the point that Ultra HD BDs are still labled "4K Ultra HD" where really the 4K should not be required (and technically incorrect as most Ultra HD content is not 4K).

I beg to differ with this...and this is the reason why:

Domestic resolutions (note that both horizontal and vertical resolutions are specified)
HD = 1280x720 (aka 720p), FHD = 1920x1080 (aka 1080p), UHD =  3840x2160 (aka 2160p), then there's the yet to be named resolution 7680x4320 (aka 4320p).

Cinema resolutions (note that only horizontal resolution is specified due to differences in movies aspect ratio - Digital Cinema Initiatives (DCI) specifies different aspect ratios for the same resolution to allow the varying vertical resolutions among movies):
2k = 2048xUnspecified, 4k = 4096xUnspecified, and through extrapolation, it can safely be concluded that 8k = 8192xUnspecified.

The confusion between 4k, UHD and 8k is due to TV manufacturers using Cinema resolutions' terms to market their products.

They refer to their 3840x2160 / 2160p displays as 4k (which is incorrect as they do not meet the 4k standards as stipulated by DCI), technically, there are no 4k TVs - there's UHD or 2160p TVs instead


Quote
...4K and HDR are not separate entities, they exists as part of the single Ultra HD format - if it is Ultra HD it is HDR...

HDR or High Dynamic Range and 4k are completely separate entities, this is because 4k is just a "nickname" or "code name" for resolutions with a total number of horizontal pixels that equals 4096. 4k has nothing to do with how the pixels look in terms of color, contrast, brightness etc, which is where HDR comes in.
Music is What Feelings Sound Like...
You Don't Stop Gaming Because you Grow Old, You Grow Old Because you Stop Gaming...

Offline KenMasters

Re: 8K TV around the corner?
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2018, 12:26:05 PM »
I beg to differ with this...and this is the reason why:

Domestic resolutions (note that both horizontal and vertical resolutions are specified)
HD = 1280x720 (aka 720p), FHD = 1920x1080 (aka 1080p), UHD =  3840x2160 (aka 2160p), then there's the yet to be named resolution 7680x4320 (aka 4320p).

Cinema resolutions (note that only horizontal resolution is specified due to differences in movies aspect ratio - Digital Cinema Initiatives (DCI) specifies different aspect ratios for the same resolution to allow the varying vertical resolutions among movies):
2k = 2048xUnspecified, 4k = 4096xUnspecified, and through extrapolation, it can safely be concluded that 8k = 8192xUnspecified.

The confusion between 4k, UHD and 8k is due to TV manufacturers using Cinema resolutions' terms to market their products.

They refer to their 3840x2160 / 2160p displays as 4k (which is incorrect as they do not meet the 4k standards as stipulated by DCI), technically, there are no 4k TVs - there's UHD or 2160p TVs instead

We're not talking about cinema standards here (besides, cinema 4K is not really 4K either is it?), we're talking about the new TV standard "Ultra HD". For the home it was decided that "4K" would be a resolution of 3840 2160 and "8K" a resolution of 7680 4320 because they are exact pixel matches for the HD resolutions of 1080p (or 2K), and 720p.

HDR or High Dynamic Range and 4k are completely separate entities, this is because 4k is just a "nickname" or "code name" for resolutions with a total number of horizontal pixels that equals 4096. 4k has nothing to do with how the pixels look in terms of color, contrast, brightness etc, which is where HDR comes in.

What you're missing here is that what you display on your TV at home is governed by specific standards (and their subsets). In the SD era we adhered to Rec. 601, HD was defined by Rec. 709 and Ultra HD by Rec. 2020. The expanded colour gamut, bit depth and new PQ EOTF of Ultra HD is what we refer to collectively as HDR. Also note, each successive standard can accommodate the previous standards.

 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 12:48:37 PM by KenMasters »