Author Topic: Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell  (Read 2114 times)

Offline King_Julian_S

Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2017, 09:25:14 PM »
Something does not look right .. can’t tell nicely from pics ..


If you rest the arm on a LP ( not spinning) and what I use is a laser level to see that from the centre of the arms pivot the line is straight though centre of cart ( this is for 90 degree ofcourse not the recommended 92 degree which needs a few mm lift at the arm mounting collar... 
Aqua is right I also had skips due to to awkward Cables but that was a suspended TT... had to lift the entire table .. anyway yours look like a diff problem ...





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Offline King_Julian_S

Re: Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2017, 09:27:37 PM »
You should use the feikert adjust plus for the azimuth and sra


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Offline vleisman

Re: Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2017, 08:35:02 AM »
I'm trying to get a clearer idea of the problem - is the diamond pointing straight down (let's call that cantilever bent) or is the actual diamond not pointing straight down (let's call that cantilever twisted)? A face-on picture might help. If the diamond is pointing straight down then the azimuth fix isn't going to work in my opinion.

From what I can see in the pictures, rotating the headshell has moved the lowest point of the headshell below the cart.

Offline Aqualung

Re: Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2017, 08:47:19 AM »
Better Call FDLSaul!   :groovy:
He's offered...  :thumbs:
I love music - analog and digital. Even listening to the Blues makes me happy. During the day I coach and counsel, after hours I indulge in my second passion - listening to vinyl and restoring turntables. Some I keep, some I sell...

Offline fdlsys

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Re: Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2017, 10:51:42 AM »
I suspect this is the problem Thomas is describing

In which case, offsetting the azimuth on the headshell is the easiest (possible) cure.
I have no idea how this is going to affect the cantilever "motor" because cantilever movement will not be in the as-designed vertical plane.
But then again - we don't know if the coil-cross is also skewed in the same direction as the stylus. Lots of wild guesses here. Try and see.

Two things that can be done about the headshell azimuth adjustment ring sticking out past the stylus:
- Gently round off the corners of the headshell adjustment ring which should net about 1mm of space,
- if that is still not enough, insert a light rigid spacer between the cartridge and the headshell.
Find local signmakers with CNC laser to cut the shape of the cartridge top shape from 1,2,3,++ mm acrylic or, DIY/hack it yourself - acrylic cuts and sands easily. Make sure that spacer is at least as wide as the cartridge including the bolt "tunnels".

As a side note,
if the stylus is indeed skewed as on my primitive drawing, that this would be the 2nd 103R that I know off with the same problem straight out of the box.
Quite worrying.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 11:10:09 AM by fdlsys »
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Offline King_Julian_S

Re: Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2017, 11:46:13 AM »
According to the TT masters on the net it’s actually common that two stylus from the same cart models are rarely similar  , read the dr feickert tests ...


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Offline vleisman

Re: Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2017, 12:21:57 PM »
my primitive drawing

Sign that one Mike,  it very well may be worth a fortune one day  :flame:

Offline irengineer

Re: Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2017, 02:33:14 PM »
Thank you everyone. I'll take more pics as soon as I am back home.

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Offline fdlsys

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Re: Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2017, 02:52:20 PM »
According to the TT masters on the net it’s actually common that two stylus from the same cart models are rarely similar  , read the dr feickert tests ...
There is big functional difference between dissimilar and hopelessly out of whack. Also, there is big difference between the expressions "common" and "not unusual".
While it is NOT UNUSUAL to see some hand-made cartridges (like Koetsu) come out of the box with cantilever slightly skewed to one side, it is certainly not something that is common to all cartridges. For high volume production like Denon 103 I'd call it highly unusual.

However, once the stylus itself (the diamond) is out of prescribed angles for either of two vertical planes (as it might be the case with this one), that's downright unacceptable, no mater which make the cartridge is.
The four building blocks of the universe are fire, water, gravel and vinyl. Dave Barry
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Offline Aqualung

Re: Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2017, 03:26:44 PM »
I think Mike's drawing proves that the cantilever is skew...



 
I love music - analog and digital. Even listening to the Blues makes me happy. During the day I coach and counsel, after hours I indulge in my second passion - listening to vinyl and restoring turntables. Some I keep, some I sell...

Offline King_Julian_S

Re: Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2017, 04:05:01 PM »
Mike agreed I see now in your drawing that this is “hopelessly out of whack” as quoted by You ...



No seriously . Looking at that pic I am not sure how one can determine the extend of this.

Feickert actually tested the Dl103 and see pg 26 about .. everything is not like it seems dear Mike.
https://audiomaniacy.pl/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=956.0;attach=17548



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Offline fdlsys

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Re: Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2017, 06:40:25 PM »
No seriously . Looking at that pic I am not sure how one can determine the extend of this.
I agree, which is why I asked Thomas to take a pic that shows exactly what he is talking about.

Feickert actually tested the Dl103 and see pg 26 about .. everything is not like it seems dear Mike.
Unless Feickert tested this specific 103, I fail to understand the point you are trying to make.

Thomas' 103 skips the groove on occasion, the other cartridge he used on the same TT & arm, doesn't. At which point did you skip the groove, dear?
The four building blocks of the universe are fire, water, gravel and vinyl. Dave Barry
Come back when you’ve lived a little. Miles Davis

Offline King_Julian_S

Re: Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2017, 07:32:44 PM »
Unless Feickert tested this specific 103, I fail to understand the point you are trying to make.


This was in response to your earlier point below

Quote from: fdlsys
it is certainly not something that is common to all cartridges. For high volume production like Denon 103 I'd call it highly unusual.


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Offline fdlsys

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Re: Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2017, 07:43:08 PM »
This was in response to your earlier point below
Yoh, really... I don't think you get any of what is being said, here or in that Feickert PDF.

I am talking about stylus slanted out of vertical, as per drawing, which, if it can be observed by naked eye, is catastrophic. Non negotiable. Period.

Feickert's PDF, those pages you referenced, talks about VTA effect on trackability, channel balance, etc., and says that ONE 103R they tested was found to be as perfect as it gets.

Do you have any practical help for the problem that OP is having?
The four building blocks of the universe are fire, water, gravel and vinyl. Dave Barry
Come back when you’ve lived a little. Miles Davis

Offline King_Julian_S

Help with mounting a cartridge in a headshell
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2017, 07:58:33 PM »
Aye the AVF culture Jong ..

1 out of 3 = 33.3% and that means it’s uncommon in your books .. ?
no wait that was a 103r ,,, so 2 our of 2 means 100% and that’s perhaps uncommon

I thought the pic I posted was clear showing a DL103 with some spacers ? Actually quite common as the web contain a lot of pics like that ... oops let me not say common again .. Eish .. anyway post the spacers I wanted to recommend to him to use Feickert adjust plus for fine tuning the azimuth angle and sra..

Anyway , enjoy Mike .. will leave it to you who
“understand” in the interest of the op looking for a “ Mike” solution ..







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