Author Topic: Which products are giants, who still buys them.  (Read 2368 times)

Offline Hi-Phibian

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Which products are giants, who still buys them.
« on: December 01, 2016, 06:17:43 AM »
Everything these days punches at twice the weight and kills giants. 

So, who still buys these over priced lard butt products, these giants and who are they?


"If it sounds good, it IS good."
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Offline markc

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Re: Which products are giants, who still buys them.
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2016, 06:31:51 AM »
Very interesting topic, I would love to know the volumes on new Mark Levinson kit being sold in SA. I may be mistaken but would not be surprised if, for example, it went from small quantities to almost zero now, with our exchange rate.

It is going to be a lot harder in ten to twenty years to build a "high-end" system on a budget, like we have been able to do on this forum over the last years.

Hang onto your kit, it will be harder to get the same quality in the future. There are some great cost effective pieces out there such as gain-clones and uDSD but if, like me, you appreciate the look and engineering quality of say Mark Levinson kit, in the long term you are going to need a lot more cash.
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Offline Hi-Phibian

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Which products are giants, who still buys them.
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2016, 06:40:47 AM »
Hi Mark

Guess the topic can go two ways.  My intent was drenched in sarcasm.  If absolutely everything people punt these days is so good you need to spend thrice to get better, who is buying the duds at twice the price. 

They can't all be giant killers in their respective price ranges.   


"If it sounds good, it IS good."
Duke Ellington
Proprietor of Croak Audio Exploration.
Fair, not crazy, cash paid for turntables and tonearms from Rega, Linn and Thorens.          http://www.croak.co.za

Offline Hi-Phibian

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Which products are giants, who still buys them.
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2016, 06:44:03 AM »
I would agree that the new high end is being sold to the wealthy, sales to straight enthusiasts who save are definitely less than 15 years ago.  The enthusiasts upgrade and change creating the used market many here have enjoyed. 
The wealthy who buy good kit because they can and appreciate fine things will hold on to their purchase for much longer.


"If it sounds good, it IS good."
Duke Ellington
Proprietor of Croak Audio Exploration.
Fair, not crazy, cash paid for turntables and tonearms from Rega, Linn and Thorens.          http://www.croak.co.za

Offline Rodney_gold

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Re: Which products are giants, who still buys them.
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2016, 07:46:27 AM »
It depends what you consider a giant killer
I regard anything from miniDSP a giant killer .. and these are all units in the $35-900 mark but I also think my devialets and G1's are giant killers and they are FAR from that price range.


Roon/tidal > SBT>DIRAC ddrc 22 > 2x Devialet D premiers>  Vivid audio Giya G1's ..fully treated room

Offline Hi-Phibian

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Re: Which products are giants, who still buys them.
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2016, 07:49:22 AM »
I think the term gets thrown around quickly these days. 


"If it sounds good, it IS good."
Duke Ellington
Proprietor of Croak Audio Exploration.
Fair, not crazy, cash paid for turntables and tonearms from Rega, Linn and Thorens.          http://www.croak.co.za

Offline CAD

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Re: Which products are giants, who still buys them.
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2016, 07:51:14 AM »
Very interesting indeed and was wondering the same thing this morning.

What constitutes a "Giant Killer" ? 


If absolutely everything people punt these days is so good you need to spend thrice to get better, who is buying the duds at twice the price. 

They can't all be giant killers in their respective price ranges.   


+1
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Offline vleisman

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Re: Which products are giants, who still buys them.
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2016, 08:01:54 AM »
Marketing, and it works. I think because we are programmed to believe things people say, especially if they say it with authority and conviction.

Offline Rotten Johnny

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Re: Which products are giants, who still buys them.
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2016, 08:07:52 AM »
Who cares, the world of 'high-end' audio is filled with so much **** and as many audiophool customers it's lost all credibility.  There are still great brands out there that don't have to resort to audiophool hype and horseshit to move their product.
Audiophile: There is almost no other group that prides themselves more on wasting good money on utterly worthless ****, and then trying to furiously blow smoke up their own ass to justify it.

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Offline chrisc

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Re: Which products are giants, who still buys them.
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2016, 08:08:28 AM »
The first product that springs to mind are B&W speakers.  Not everyone's cup of tea, but they are manufactured to a high standard (or appear to be at any rate)

Offline Rodney_gold

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Re: Which products are giants, who still buys them.
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2016, 09:36:07 AM »
a giant killer is anything that has the same utility and SQ of products costing many times miore
But the terms utility and SQ are often only particular to you or your system..others might find your giant killer a little stunted... a dwarf stomper...
Roon/tidal > SBT>DIRAC ddrc 22 > 2x Devialet D premiers>  Vivid audio Giya G1's ..fully treated room

Offline ScottulusMaximus

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Re: Which products are giants, who still buys them.
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2016, 09:52:29 AM »
Hi Mark

Guess the topic can go two ways.  My intent was drenched in sarcasm.  If absolutely everything people punt these days is so good you need to spend thrice to get better, who is buying the duds at twice the price. 

They can't all be giant killers in their respective price ranges.   


"If it sounds good, it IS good."
Duke Ellington

My goodness, I agree with HiPhib on something!  :)

I find it quite funny though, every second ad says "you'll have to spend 3 times as much to sound better". Ok well, that's a nice thing to say but it's meaningless. What exactly does the sound compare to? Unless you can give a concrete example of what it sounds like then you're just wasting bytes.

Also why is price treated as the ONLY metric in SQ. "Reason: Upgrading" doesn't mean I'm buying something that sounds better, it means I'm buying something more expensive. Unfortunately this is a direct result of the audiophool befuddlement of anyone less technically minded, all marketing and no engineering.

/rant over
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Offline entropyagent

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Re: Which products are giants, who still buys them.
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2016, 08:57:23 PM »
In our context, isn't a phool 'someone who disagrees with me on the value of a thing' ?

HP's point about 'They can't all punch well above their weight' is well made.  Perhaps this is another thing the press has to answer for....http://www.avforums.co.za/index.php/topic,59647.0.html. If only there was some way of not believing the scoundrels.

There might be some justification if one considers that a modern device with modern components and designed with modern modelling tools, (and built to a carefully-engineered price with slave labour) might kill a giant of yesteryear. Or so I read somewhere.

Offline Scubadude

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Re: Which products are giants, who still buys them.
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2016, 06:27:02 AM »
If I buy a 20 year old Mazda MX5, well-kept and very low mileage for R80k, I suppose you could argue it is as good, possibly better than a year-old car with the same mileage. It would be a very flawed argument though that I have to spend 5 times as much to get a better car, ignoring everything in between. So yes a 20 year old Krell at R20k is great value, so is a lovely SET power amp for the same money. And yes compared to buying rand-battered new kit you would have to spend three to five times more. So really a comment on relative value of new vs second hand more than anything else. And sort of pointless.

Or did I miss the point that all new kit is three times as good as all the competition?
"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

Offline Hi-Phibian

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Re: Which products are giants, who still buys them.
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2016, 06:36:34 AM »

Or did I miss the point that all new kit is three times as good as all the competition?


Think you got it in the end.



"If it sounds good, it IS good."
Duke Ellington
Proprietor of Croak Audio Exploration.
Fair, not crazy, cash paid for turntables and tonearms from Rega, Linn and Thorens.          http://www.croak.co.za