Author Topic: AVForums reference source material  (Read 23567 times)

RR

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: AVForums reference source material
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2008, 11:37:45 AM »
RR, you sound really "into him"

To me Mike Bubble doesnt sound natural, pleasant, but not natural compared to the Chesky recordings for example. To much reverb & hf added. I think it is difficult to get a studio recording to sound natural.

To me the best recorded and performed male vocals are Buble and Andrea Bochelli. IMO very well recorded, good imaging. On the Amore Album, track no6 (can't remember the name), Andrea Bochelli sings a duo with Stevie Wonder. It is so realistic, the two okes standing next to each other, Andrea almost centre stage and Stevie next to him to the left of center. Brilliant studio recording, makes it sound very real.

Offline The Godfather

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • AVForums Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,305
Re: AVForums reference source material
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2008, 04:30:40 PM »
I would be interested to hear what your opinion is of any of the Chesky Recordings?

RR

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: AVForums reference source material
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2008, 07:58:46 PM »
I would be interested to hear what your opinion is of any of the Chesky Recordings?

I'd like to listen to it, from the feedback on this forum is must be good. I'm gonna ask my local CD man, Ziggy, whether he can get it. (He usually can get anything  )

jamster

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: AVForums reference source material
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2008, 08:01:32 PM »
HERE IS A RUNDOWN ON THE IASCA DISK
this is for the iasca official sound quality referance cd
which was used in part of the 2005 events and will be used exclusively in the 2006 events

track 1 don dorsey " ascent "
not officially used as a judging track but is a very good track to listen to as regards hearing if a system is capable of the full range of frequencies there is some extreme low frequency content in this track which is perfect for trying out subwoofers
the voice and introduction at the beginning of the track is that of mary ellen papadeas whom is the iasca presidents wife

track 2 left and right channel verification
OFFICIAL JUDGING TRACK
without doubt one of the most important tracks on the disc
please take time to listen to the WHOLE of this track not just the first few seconds through judging experiance ive learned that just because you get " left channel left channel " correct
doesnt necessarily mean your going to get the " right channel right channel " bit correct also

track 3 phase verification track
this track is not offically used as a judging track but the judge may sometimes play this track if he hears something which is out of the ordinary he or she may also put comments on your score sheet
this is an excellant set up track if used correctly for setting up mid and high frequencies so as voices appear as natural as possible simply listen to the track and listen to the voice both in and out of phase there should be a differance in your perception as to where the voice is originating from and how tight the image focus is
simply keep changing the phase (positive and negative) on your speakers until you get the best focus you can get

track 4 instructions for the tonal accuracy and spectral balance part of the judging section

track 5 john williams star wars "throne room and title ending "
OFFICIAL JUDGING TRACK
the reproduction should leave you with a felling of being in a massive music hall with an equally massive orchestra
around nine or ten seconds into the track there should be quite a bit of low frequency information which should be felt as well as heard the notes should be distinct and should both start and stop not run into one another
around 29-30 seconds into the track there should be a french horn at the back of the stage on the right hand side these should echo around and bounce of the edges of the soundstage at around the same time there are some high frequencies played from the xylophone they should be clean and crisp but overpower any of the other instruments

track 6 john williams superman " the planet krypton "
OFFICIAL JUDGING TRACK
this track is an excellant test of the ability of the system to play extreme low frequency information
the judges will mainly be listening for around 1.09 seconds into the track where there are a succession of eight or nine very low notes all sustained for around two seconds they should descend in order the fourth note in succession is the 18hz note when this is played correctly the music should be felt as well as heard if done correctly you should feel a small vibration through the car and the sub may appear to flutter
all this should be done without the sub ever losing control of the notes and producing just one long continuous note
right at the end of the track there is a crescendo from the tympani drums the strings and the organ these should increase in volume but not get so loud so as the subwoofer is
the dominant speaker heard

track 7 jaques loussier " gavotte in d minor "
OFFICIAL JUDGING TRACK
this track is primarilly used for testing midbass and midrange frequencies
right at the beginning of the track the double bass is very prominant the notes should be clear and concise not drone on from one to another at arond 40 seconds the double bass plays a sustained low frequency note which should last a while if it doesnt improvements can be made in this area
one of the other instruments being scrtinised is the kick drum which again should be quick and have weight behind it without being overdominant the kickdrum has two sounds one being the hammer hitting the skin then the hammer coming off the skin the judge may occasionally comment on
these
at around 23 seconds the piano begins to play it should sound larger than life and not compressed in the slightest
it should sound as if coming from the front of the vehicle not the passenger side footwell
at 45 seconds the piano plays a low sustained note which should last a for a few seconds if it doesnt again improvements can be made

track 8 instructions for the staging evaluation
in the next three tracks the judges will be looking for
information regarding THE LISTENING POSITION ,STAGE HEIGHT , STAGE WIDTH, STAGE DEPTH AND AMBIANCE

track 9 henry mancini "theme from the pink panther"
OFFICIAL JUDGING TRACK
theres a lot going on in this track but at the beginning the piano at far left is an excellant referance as to the stage width on that side of the car with the triangle on the right hand side but slightly in a bit so bear this in mind the saxophone is also quite prominant in the recording it should sound a lot deeper and further into the mix and should be positioned around left of centre to centre the brass and drums will be even deeper into the stage at around the 42 seconds mark the orchestra finally gets moving and from here on in you should be able to determine the size of the room and hear the reflections off the walls it should sound like large and lush

track 10 lincoln mayorga "camarillo"
OFFICIAL JUDGING TRACK
this track is excellant for judging stage height and also stage width
SET UP TIP ...right at the begginning of this track there is a bass playing at left of centre right at the front of the stage pay particular attention to this as every car sounds differant
simply follow the bass line and see where you think it originates from and where it moves 23 seconds into the track the bass play a particular low note to see if you have things set correctly it should not move if however it moves forwards and backwards then you have a slight imbalance of the midbass speakers and subwoofer if it jumps from one note to another from left to right in the car then you have a speaker imbalance from left to right in the car a well set up system the bass will not move and will appear to all come from the front of the car with the subwoofer undetectable
the tambourine at the beginning of the track should be right on the stage boundary on the right hand side a little deeper than the bass the saxophone should be central with the drums slightly deeper in the mix right at the front of the stage is the piano and it should sound large and bold as its the closest instrument
both guitars are the outermost instruments on the track and again can be used to determine the outermost points of the stage

track 11 carl orff "fortune empress of the world "
OFFICIAL JUDGING TRACK
at the begginning of the track only a certain section of the choir are singing and if you listen carefully a piano is playing very gently right at the front of the stage
at 41 seconds into the recording (first timpani strike) the sound should change and the whole of the choir are in full voice and the sheer size of the room should be very evident
if you cannot get the impression of a huge cavernous hall with a symphony orchestra and full choir then there are a few improvements which can be made to your system
this track is excellant for judging stage depth pay particular attention to the timpani strikes

track 12 staging evaluation track technical track
"left centre and right narratives"
NOT USED IN COMPETITION
but can be usefull for set up purposes or checking tonality on voices

track 13 instructions for imaging track evaluations
differant judges will use differant referances throughout the evaluations the end result being the same the two main parts to imaging are "relative position" and "focus"

track 14 imaging evaluation #1
"blues stay away from me " harry james band
OFFICIAL JUDGING TRACK
in this track generally the two instruments which are used for referance are the trumpet at slightly inside far left and the baritone sax at far right the trumpet is slightly inside far left and this must be taken into consideration
the judges will listen for these two instruments and then wait to see if anything catches them out
TIP.. generally the things which makes imaging either move or
briefly change in size is down to intensity and tonality changes between the left and right channel so conentrating on these things in set up can greatly improve this portion of
evaluation

track 15 imaging evaluation #2
" i will find you there " micheal ruff
OFFICIAL JUDGING TRACK
theres lots going on in this track but the main things to listen out for are the three vocals which are at centre the male vocal which is far right and the female vocal which is far left
the female vocal is located further back in the stage than the centre image there are also two instruments to concentrate on the guitar which plays infrequenctly at left of centre and the trombone at right of centre
again concentrate on relative position and focus of each individual instrument or voice

track 16 imaging evaluation #3
"too close " clair marlo
OFFICAL JUDGING TRACK
the main thing to concentrate on with this track is the female centre vocal which should be exactly in the centre and not move when either low or high notes are sung
other refernace which can be used on this track are the accordian at left of centre and the guitars at just inside far left and far right

track 17 imaging evaluation #4
seven drum beats
generally this track is not used by iasca uk judges but several other countries in europe do use this track for imaging evaluation so ill run thorugh it anyhows
tip.. when using this track listen to the tonality first before the positioning listen to the track a couple of times whilst going across does the tonality change at all ??? if so this points to an inbalance between the left and right speakers and mre work will have to be done to get this better
after this has been done then lsiten to the relative positions
of the strikes if the strikes are even and equally placed fine if one side seems to be more dominant than the other then there is a balance problem within the system if however you seem to struggle achieving a centre image then this can crossover point induced or overall relative level of midrange

track 18 explantion of linearity evaluation (tracks 19-23)
track 19 level setting instructions for track 20
track 20 level setting track for linearity evaluation

to set this correctly the volume should be set so as to be equal to the spoken voice of the judge at a normal level
once the volume has been set it will not be changed between the tracks until the evaluation is finished
the judges are looking for differnces between the three levels
the low level linearity is generally used to test if the system still has the correct amount of subbass in the system on low
the double bass and the kickdrum are difficult instruments to get right at low level even though this is not a bass heavy track at all some systems will be concieved as having a lack of subbass
the midrange should allways stay open and clear without ever becoming harsh or overbearing especially at high level

track 24 noise evaluation instructions

track 25 noise evaluation "a la valse"
OFFICIAL JUDGING TRACK
this is a very clear and clean recording which starts loud and then towards the end of the track gets quiter good systems should still have music playing at 1.03 seconds into the tarck without being overcome by gain hiss or a noise gate being induced

Man this brings back memories. Must have heard this disc 30 000 times ...

Offline The Godfather

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • AVForums Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,305
Re: AVForums reference source material
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2008, 05:42:17 AM »
I'd like to listen to it, from the feedback on this forum is must be good. I'm gonna ask my local CD man, Ziggy, whether he can get it. (He usually can get anything  )

There are a large range of Chesky Recordings. They are all good. The disk mentioned here is simply one of their specialised disks. The basic premise of their recording methodology is to leave the signal unmolested.

www.chesky.com

Offline Family_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+17)
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,267
  • STEEL & GLASS - Everlasting Beauty!
    • Repcom 2-way Radios
Re: AVForums reference source material
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2008, 10:10:32 AM »
I'd like to listen to it, from the feedback on this forum is must be good. I'm gonna ask my local CD man, Ziggy, whether he can get it. (He usually can get anything  )

Your local CD man, Ziggy, will never see me again ever! Once bitten, twice shy. You are aware that much of his stuff is not genuine, of course.

-F_D



-Eric

That Guy in South Africa...
*************************************
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintage_tube/
*************************************

Offline Shonver

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • AVForums Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,551
  • Criss-cross rhythms that explode with happiness
    • Elipse (under construction)
Re: AVForums reference source material
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2008, 11:46:05 AM »
You are aware that much of his stuff is not genuine, of course.

You mean its all... Stardust?
________________

DON'T PANIC
Capie

RR

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: AVForums reference source material
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2008, 02:49:52 PM »
Hi Family Dog

You're not the first one to say it, and you're probably right. I think however it has more to do with DVD's, but I'm not sure.

The stuff I get from him is usually imports, and SACD, no way to fake it.

While it is your full right to point this out, I wish to add by saying that I've seen some major rubbish at mainstream CD shops in the cities as well, some stuff that family of mine even reported to ASAMI once. So this is rife in the industry, not just the small 'oriental' CD shops.

RR

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: AVForums reference source material
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2008, 02:52:35 PM »
There are a large range of Chesky Recordings. They are all good. The disk mentioned here is simply one of their specialised disks. The basic premise of their recording methodology is to leave the signal unmolested.

www.chesky.com

thanks, I'll have a look at the site.

Offline The Godfather

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • AVForums Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,305
Re: AVForums reference source material
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2008, 05:36:58 PM »
Hi Family Dog

You're not the first one to say it, and you're probably right. I think however it has more to do with DVD's, but I'm not sure.

The stuff I get from him is usually imports, and SACD, no way to fake it.

While it is your full right to point this out, I wish to add by saying that I've seen some major rubbish at mainstream CD shops in the cities as well, some stuff that family of mine even reported to ASAMI once. So this is rife in the industry, not just the small 'oriental' CD shops.
Why no way to fake it?

FD - Why not throw this Ziggy to the Wolves?

Offline Family_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+17)
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,267
  • STEEL & GLASS - Everlasting Beauty!
    • Repcom 2-way Radios
Re: AVForums reference source material
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2008, 08:08:46 PM »
Hi Family Dog

You're not the first one to say it, and you're probably right. I think however it has more to do with DVD's, but I'm not sure.

The stuff I get from him is usually imports, and SACD, no way to fake it.

While it is your full right to point this out, I wish to add by saying that I've seen some major rubbish at mainstream CD shops in the cities as well, some stuff that family of mine even reported to ASAMI once. So this is rife in the industry, not just the small 'oriental' CD shops.

Sorry, my omission. It was with DVDs. Ziggy served me himself, and I told him at the time that I would be a regular customer, even with the 90Km return trip from Klerksdorp. When I returned the DVD (Elton John - Greatest Hits) because it played quite happily on an el-cheapo DVD player, it hopped, skipped & jumped on my Denon DVD 2200 player and he changed it quite willingly. The new one did the same thing. After the third time, I said I would rather exchange it for something else. Suddenly, the DVD which was on his shelves and cost me about R250 at the time, was only worth R70.00.That annoyed me immensely, and the fact that when I returned it the second time, I saw his son (presumably) go into a room and remove another DVD from an open spindle, the type that one buys with 100 blanks on. No cover, no box - nothing! I then also saw the loose labels lying on the floor of his store room. When the guy noticed I was watching what he was doing, he quickly closed the door. The DVD also had the brownish tint to the underside where it was written to, genuine ones are silver. At no time did he say anything to let me believe that the DVD was not genuine  >:(

I happen to know the Chairman of RISA, and he mentioned they do have regular raids there.

A pity, Ziggy does indeed have a very good selection of DVDs & CDs. However, our small village shop "Music Addiction" here in Klerksdorp serves me well, and are very willing. Bought three DVD there yesterday, reasonably priced.

Incidentally, Bossie, who used to work for Ziggy opened a CD shop here some years abck, great selection too. But they over-extended themselves with two shops once the City Mall opened and sadly exist no more. Great pity. He really knew his music too.


-F_D



-Eric

That Guy in South Africa...
*************************************
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintage_tube/
*************************************

RR

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: AVForums reference source material
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2008, 08:12:59 AM »
I saw his son (presumably) go into a room and remove another DVD from an open spindle, the type that one buys with 100 blanks on. No cover, no box - nothing! I then also saw the loose labels lying on the floor of his store room. When the guy noticed I was watching what he was doing, he quickly closed the door. The DVD also had the brownish tint to the underside where it was written to, genuine ones are silver. At no time did he say anything to let me believe that the DVD was not genuine  >:(

I happen to know the Chairman of RISA, and he mentioned they do have regular raids there.
-F_D

That is really sad and very wrong. I have heard that they were fined once (probably more), but wasn't sure exactly what for. Now with your story, I have to say: The laws are clear, what the hell do they think?

I still however ordered SACD's from him, since it is cheaper than ordering from lets say Acoustic Sounds. These dirty tricks however bother me (now that I've heard a clear description of someone actually seeing these activities). I think dealers like these should be avoided, unless they do not do this anymore. I'll provide feedback if I hear anything. (Maybe you can speak to the RISA guy and here what the current situation is at Ziggy's?).
« Last Edit: February 18, 2008, 08:14:48 AM by RR »

Cleansound

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: AVForums reference source material
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2008, 08:51:43 AM »
Looking at page one mention is made to Patricia Barber, yes it is Live in France and is a great recording with a fantastic track listing, I particularly enjoy her version of Norwegian Wood.

My reference records are as follows.

1.Tsuyoshi Yamamoto-Midnight Sugar, jazz precision at it's best the man plays the piano as precise as a surgeon uses a scalpel and at times gets pretty ruthless and pushes the envelope so much that one would think he has gone into a mad frenzy, a great accoustic album with drums and double bass, my favourite record of all time.

2.Bill Evans- Walts for Debbie a jazz trio at their best and the improv. of Bill Evans as he would only be enjoyed live, this is a beautiful melodic album and probarbly one of the greatest jazz pianists of all time in a stunning ensemble and fantastic accoustics.

3.Feist-The Reminder this female has a voice that stirs up excitement and often reminds one of the likes of Kate Bush and even the great Edie Brickhell, stunningly composed tracks with a constant mood change through out the entire record.

4.Death Cab for Cutie-Plans very cleverly composed record with a bit of electronica and some serious guitar playing thrown into the mix, the songs are all enjoyable and Americana at it's best, the drumming on this record in my opinion is revoltutionary.

5.Janis Ian-Breaking Silence great audiophile record with fantastic musicianship and vocals so relaxed one would think she was recording this record since childhood, the guitar work is absolutely flawless and the percussions on this record add to the eclectic feel.

The above 5 records are not my favourites, except for Midnight Sugar which is my number one record of all time but I mention these albums in particular as the music never gets tiring and they are all excellent recordings that will push the limits of your system.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2008, 08:59:12 AM by Cleansound »

Offline Viagara

  • Legendary Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • AVForums Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,959
  • Flying High, Digging Low
Re: AVForums reference source material
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2008, 11:08:23 AM »
Looking at page one mention is made to Patricia Barber, yes it is Live in France and is a great recording with a fantastic track listing, I particularly enjoy her version of Norwegian Wood.

3.Feist-The Reminder this female has a voice that stirs up excitement and often reminds one of the likes of Kate Bush and even the great Edie Brickhell, stunningly composed tracks with a constant mood change through out the entire record.

I absolutely agree with you on Patricia Barber. Feist I also enjoy, but sometimes feel that her voice sounds "distant" on the CD. I don't know how to describe it, but maybe I am too used to close mic(and over-processed) recordings ;)

Have you heard Kate Bush's Aerial? Quite different to her previous albums, but I enjoy it.
Don't take life too seriously, you will not make it out alive.....

(Location Cape Town)
_________________________

RR

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: AVForums reference source material
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2008, 11:59:01 AM »
Why no way to fake it?


What!!

SACD, very small market, I don't understand this question at all..