Poll

Please indicate what kind of loudspeakers do you use in your main listening environment (RRP ZAR)

Small Bookshelf-below R20K
17 (10.8%)
Standmount Between R20-R50K
11 (7%)
Standmount between R50k-R100k
2 (1.3%)
Floorstander below R20k
35 (22.3%)
Floorstander between R20k-R50k
45 (28.7%)
Floorstander between R50K and R100K
14 (8.9%)
Floorstander over R100k
18 (11.5%)
Planars or electrostatics (can incl  conventional bass drivers)
10 (6.4%)
Horns (primarily based on typology)
5 (3.2%)

Total Members Voted: 157

Author Topic: Air Loudpeakers  (Read 58160 times)

Offline Nirvana

Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #360 on: May 06, 2019, 06:28:04 PM »
Wow man.

I've never had the privilege to listen to a SET set-up,but this write-up I think will give many of us sleepless nights,Stefan!  :thinking:

Wish I had the means to invest in such a pairing with the Vivace,it clearly seems a Final Destination for many of us music junkies...  :notworthy:

May your incredible journey leave a legacy...  :2thumbs:
Never b flat,never b sharp,always b natural

Offline Stanp

Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #361 on: May 06, 2019, 10:45:57 PM »
Stefan, it sounds like the Vivace is in its final stage. Well done  :clap:

Offline ALIGMUZ

Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #362 on: May 07, 2019, 06:15:58 PM »
Superb - and nice too see the seasoned members raving - we are fortunate indeed! Best of luck with the next part of the journey, will keep following with much interest.

Offline Air

  • Commercial Member
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • *****
  • Posts: 916
  • Total likes: 245
  • Music lover and involved in industry
    • Airmusic
Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #363 on: June 20, 2019, 10:43:26 AM »
A little bit of an update...

Over the past month or so I had a lot of fun with the Vivace's. Enthusiast popped in and out on an ongoing basis and we listened to a number of amps and sources(all digital so far). We also tested the Vivace's with all kind of music and listening preferences, anything from opera to modern French electronic music.

Are they perfect? No, I don't think anything is perfect but they are really good. Are they better than speakers costing three or more times more  >:D. Well, of course, that is a claim that smells of marketing and almost as ludicrous as to say they are the best speaker ever produced. What I would say is that people with regular exposure to very highly regarded speakers are positive and enthusiastic. I must admit I do enjoy it when someone sits down and I can see that they are surprised with what they hear and when I can see the listener is engaged in the listening experience. 

I feel that I am very close to the end of the voicing phase of the speaker. To put it in another way, I have not changed the crossover once in the past month.

So what are the words that were used to describe them?
-Coherent, bass, mids and highs are woven from the same cloth and very even
-excellent midrange, with strong projection(an Avantgarde owner spoke about some similarities)
-details right through the range and not fabricated by an excess of high frequencies
-lively with very good transients, energetic
-powerful and extended bass, more so what one would expect of a medium(50L) speaker

I am in particular happy with the way they showed up differences with downstream changes and that I felt they don't fall apart when pushed with eiether volume or demanding music. I also like the fact that they were never boring to listen to and that, for me they make me feel involved in the music without being too much.

We had a few surprises, mainly how well they respond to lower powered amps. Of course, that was part of the design objectives. So I am happy with this. One example is how the Vivace's showed the potential of a 15W Leben amp to it's fullest potential. This amp, highly rated seems to often sounds underwhelming even with speakers that on the surface should be an ideal match(horn speakers with big 12-15 inch woofers). When we installed the amp the sound was alive, full of energy and sparkle with very good bass response. I used the word "supple" to describe the bass. This kind of bass response I really like. It is not the "slam" that audiophiles often refers to but it is more a tuneful, agile, swinging and rhymic that the stop-start bass that high damping amps create that can sound very staccato-like and not the very musical. For me, there are a lot of people can play the piano, or at least can play the notes, but only a few true artists can make music on a piano, unfortunately. That is the sort of impression I got from the Leben. Lastly, as far as the Leben is concerned, the tone of the music was just absolutely amazing. No, it is not the 211 SET but the more human-like scale and tone, perhaps, even more, enduring than the impressive Ongaku replica.

On the other hand of the spectrum, we played the Audio Analogue Maestro on them. This amp is a very serious SS amp, that is very very powerful. It doubles its output from the 150W in 8Ohm in 4Ohm and doubles again in 2 Ohm loads. It also delivers full power from 20Hz to 20Khz.. few amps can do that. So it is a very very good amp with more detail in spades and a very nice tone. It drove the Vivace to earsplitting levels, concert levels and sounded great. However, we agree that such an amp is not needed with the Vivace's unless they will be played in very large rooms and high volume all the time.

I will continue to listen to different amps, hopefully, I can lay my hands on a Valve Audio as well, as I guess they are amps that are known well and hence a good reference to people on the forum.

So we must complete the speakers, and the good news is that in the last month or so, Alex and I also came up with a viable solution to get us out of the checkmate situation with the bentwood parts. I believe that we have found a very good alternative design that many people we have shown it to actually think it could look even nicer than the original design. We still want to see if we cannot get the original idea across the line, but I feel less stuck than what I felt previously.

Lastly a quick comment, about the news that I will be the ProAc agent and how it plays into this project. I see the ProAc and Rosso brand, for that matter as complementary. There is no way that I can produce this kind of speaker at an entry-level price. I don't believe the market in SA is big enough for a business model that relies on volume and scale. The kind of investment and energy that this kind of speaker calls for can only be done at a premium level. It doesn't mean it will be expensive in absolute terms but it will be more costly than let's say a ProAc standmount etc. On some levels there might be an overlap but I am not overly concerned about that.

Hopefully, the economy will improve and the hifi industry would also show more growth than the mere swopping of equipment that has been the order of the day in the last year or so..

Almost time for a few more listeners to pop in..  :coffee:


Offline AudioMule

Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #364 on: June 21, 2019, 01:40:26 PM »
any Update on how they currently look? Please share  :dop:
There's nothing wrong with your system, you are just listening to wrong music on it.

Offline Air

  • Commercial Member
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • *****
  • Posts: 916
  • Total likes: 245
  • Music lover and involved in industry
    • Airmusic
Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #365 on: June 22, 2019, 03:16:23 PM »
Mhmm they are still a bit shy to come out in daylight but what the heck they do sound far more comfortable then what they currently




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline AudioMule

Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #366 on: June 22, 2019, 06:14:46 PM »
Mhmm they are still a bit shy to come out in daylight but what the heck they do sound far more comfortable then what they currently




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Now they show where theyíre heading.... Iíve held my purchases and focused on other aspects in life till I listen to everything Iím curious about...
There's nothing wrong with your system, you are just listening to wrong music on it.

Offline Air

  • Commercial Member
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • *****
  • Posts: 916
  • Total likes: 245
  • Music lover and involved in industry
    • Airmusic
Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #367 on: June 23, 2019, 12:25:39 PM »
if we don't make progress with the plan A of the design in terms of the wood finish(waiting for the mould to be refined and produced pressed panels), we have a very good plan B that we will implement and the illustrations below show what we have in mind. The vote is split between the old and new idea from those I have tested it with. In my mind, it is really not a second best option but a viable alternative. We will use solid wood for the wood panels and slates which could enhance the look and finish of the speaker. The carbon structure will be visible between the slates and therefore we will finish it with a semi gloss finish. (currently, it has just a mat sealer as it would not have been visible)


So happy to hear from those who are following our progress what you think of the concept?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 12:28:21 PM by Air »

Offline Air

  • Commercial Member
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • *****
  • Posts: 916
  • Total likes: 245
  • Music lover and involved in industry
    • Airmusic
Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #368 on: June 23, 2019, 01:35:31 PM »
Sitting and thinking about @Hi-Phibian post on copy cat design I thought I should share my thoughts about the difference between inspiration and copy cat here to show where my inspiration for the plan B comes from. It is no news that I am a keen follower of design in general and especially furniture design and architecture. So plan B was inspired by an art gallery in Rosebank that I pass by almost daily and often visit as well. It was designed by a friend of a friend and I think it is beautiful and innovative of how the steel beams were utilised to form the curve and make it interesting, functional and practical. Here are some pics.. on my last visit the light came up for me but it took some time to incubate in my mind until the frustration with the wood panels prompts me to start to work on the idea with Alex. 


Offline AudioMule

Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #369 on: June 23, 2019, 01:56:43 PM »
Iím a huge fan of wood, I personally designed my wooden windows and doors, and Iím currently designing my furniture.... thereís a lot of woodwork in my house.... I have doors with gaps exactly like the circa pictures you posted
There's nothing wrong with your system, you are just listening to wrong music on it.

Offline nigredo

Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #370 on: June 23, 2019, 02:26:34 PM »

Although I am a lover of a wood finish in general. I feel that keeping in line with the Bauhaus esthetic so far exhibited by the Vivace a metal finish (Steel?) would work really well. This would also complement the materials already used in the Vivace's design and construction.

Offline AudioMule

Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #371 on: June 23, 2019, 03:47:32 PM »
Although I am a lover of a wood finish in general. I feel that keeping in line with the Bauhaus esthetic so far exhibited by the Vivace a metal finish (Steel?) would work really well. This would also complement the materials already used in the Vivace's design and construction.

Perfect point
There's nothing wrong with your system, you are just listening to wrong music on it.

Offline nvw

Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #372 on: June 27, 2019, 12:44:28 AM »
Had the opportunity to listen to these for hours. How do they sound? Real, alive and emotional. Delicate yet powerful. Hugely detailed but no harshness.  Tried it with a number of amps. All sounded fantastic.

Congratulations Stefan. They are world class.


Offline Air

  • Commercial Member
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • *****
  • Posts: 916
  • Total likes: 245
  • Music lover and involved in industry
    • Airmusic
Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #373 on: June 28, 2019, 11:43:06 AM »
Willem, thanks for the kind comments and for the great time we had Tuesday afternoon and evening listening to music. The listening sessions of late have become very very nice. It gives me great pleasure to sit down with you and the other guys that came visited over the last few months and listen to music. The pure joy and emotional connection that music can bring are what really makes all the effort worthwhile.  It is  one of the greatest rewards for the long and arduous journey to give birth to the Vivace when I see the interest, excitement and the way listeners get lost in the music

We really dug deep into music from different genres, I mean to say when someone who doesn't really listen to opera is moved by a beautiful duet from Verdi and then Shazam when I play our own Afrikaans blues from  Swarte Piet? I am convinced that HiFi listening to more than the few audiophile recordings that we usually rely on to review or test equipment. As Willem mention, and I hope he doesn't mind some name dropping, some hi-fi pieces sounds great when all is correct and aligned, including the music choices.
ie the recording. However, of late we have been listening to music not only the showstoppers. That is not my idea of good systems.  If it can't serve a wider range of music and recording qualities I am not interested however world class the equipment might be.

I have mentioned it before I am also really pleased with the way the Vivace thrive on smaller high-quality amps. This was what I had in mind as part of my ideas and to realise that it is possible gives me great satisfaction. I will go through the list of amps we tried over the past month in different posts with pics.

All I can say it is hard work to design speakers, carrying all these amps in and out is hard work..

Of course only joking, it is great great fun ;)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 11:45:53 AM by Air »

Offline oradba69

Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #374 on: June 28, 2019, 12:08:10 PM »
if we don't make progress with the plan A of the design in terms of the wood finish(waiting for the mould to be refined and produced pressed panels), we have a very good plan B that we will implement and the illustrations below show what we have in mind. The vote is split between the old and new idea from those I have tested it with. In my mind, it is really not a second best option but a viable alternative. We will use solid wood for the wood panels and slates which could enhance the look and finish of the speaker. The carbon structure will be visible between the slates and therefore we will finish it with a semi gloss finish. (currently, it has just a mat sealer as it would not have been visible)


So happy to hear from those who are following our progress what you think of the concept?
Makes me think about these from the 80ís





Manufacturer of Audio Video furniture.
http://www.lerange.com