Poll

Please indicate what kind of loudspeakers do you use in your main listening environment (RRP ZAR)

Small Bookshelf-below R20K
13 (9.6%)
Standmount Between R20-R50K
10 (7.4%)
Standmount between R50k-R100k
2 (1.5%)
Floorstander below R20k
32 (23.7%)
Floorstander between R20k-R50k
39 (28.9%)
Floorstander between R50K and R100K
12 (8.9%)
Floorstander over R100k
14 (10.4%)
Planars or electrostatics (can incl  conventional bass drivers)
10 (7.4%)
Horns (primarily based on typology)
3 (2.2%)

Total Members Voted: 135

Author Topic: Air Loudpeakers  (Read 41773 times)

Online King_Julian_S

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Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #165 on: October 19, 2016, 06:59:40 PM »
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Online Air

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Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #166 on: October 27, 2016, 12:17:52 PM »
We have been sweating the small stuff in the last week or 2. It takes patience to stay upbeat when you are so close but not there yet. As I mentioned in my last post we are trying to get tolerances so tight that we don't have to worry when it comes to assembly. So we decided to do a complete 3d scan of the carbon fibre carcass and see how accurate the part is. Results were ok but not great, so then we decided to scan the CNN plug that was used to make the mould from and we found the inaccuracies that were magnified in the process and eventually cause the carbon fibre parts to be just not accurate enough. So we have decided together with those involved it is better to redo the process and get it right rather than tweaking a mould and thereafter every part by sanding by hand to conform to specs. The whole 3rd scan process is very new to me and as much as I didn't want to hear that we have to go back to step 1, I think the process and images are super cool. :)









Offline Atjan

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Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #167 on: October 28, 2016, 03:43:06 PM »
People don't like it when I say it, but knowing too much can sometimes be a problem. We used 3D scanning at my previous job and I'm afraid the amount of information available sometimes caused delays which were not necessary. Most of the time it sorted the problem out though.

Here's a little saying from the motor industry:

Germans design their cars with tight tolerances, but they are loosely adhered to (by necessity - tolerance stack-up will catch you more than half the time)
The Japanese design their cars with loose tolerances, but they are tightly adhered to.

The point is that very tight tolerances are rarely a good thing - it is better to have room for variation in your design - it leads to much less problems and improved ability to swap parts out when required.
It's only hifi people....

Online Air

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Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #168 on: October 28, 2016, 04:13:39 PM »
People don't like it when I say it, but knowing too much can sometimes be a problem. We used 3D scanning at my previous job and I'm afraid the amount of information available sometimes caused delays which were not necessary. Most of the time it sorted the problem out though.

Here's a little saying from the motor industry:

Germans design their cars with tight tolerances, but they are loosely adhered to (by necessity - tolerance stack-up will catch you more than half the time)
The Japanese design their cars with loose tolerances, but they are tightly adhered to.

The point is that very tight tolerances are rarely a good thing - it is better to have room for variation in your design - it leads to much less problems and improved ability to swap parts out when required.


Atjan, very wise words indeed. I tend to agree that sometimes we can overdesign and be unrealistic with regards to tolerances. I try to keep in mind what the part's function is and how it will interact with the other parts. In this instance, we would like less than 1mm variation on carbon fibre carcass/core. Surface  irregularities don't really matter as the damping layers will allow us to deal with it effectively. The carbon part is not visible at all and we will not over engineer it. However when we assembled the prototype we found that the part is twisted/warp to some degree and was not sure where the problem came from. So we scanned the part and the plug. The plug was adapted after the original CNC and that caused the problem.

2 other parts that we will be anal about is the baffle(waveguide etc) and top cover plate that needs to fit snuggly and round off the speaker. Maybe also the oval port with its flares both internally and externally.

So yes, I am realistic and Alex perhaps more pedantic. It's not only time but also costs that are involved. We could get a glass finish on the carbon fibre and we would double the price on the part easily as an example. At least a 2 step moulding process would have to be followed if not more. Laying the A surface, curing and then the supportive layers etc. We don't need that level of precision however for this application. 

« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 04:19:44 PM by Air »

Online Air

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Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #169 on: November 25, 2016, 06:24:31 PM »
The last few weeks has been pretty much a waiting game and therefore no progress update. We have been busy in the background with doing a new plug and mould for the carbon part that will correct the variances we were not happy with and we are also in the process of machining a new mould for the plywood parts, the 3rd attempt. So lots of lessons learned and school fees paid in the process.

We also did some research and asked for quotes for the machining of the aluminum baffle. This part is critical not only acoustically but also for the final appearance of the speaker. So we are looking at the best outfits to assist with the machining this part. Until today we were a bit concerned that we would not get the quality that we want. Quotes were far apart as well. We shortlisted 3 machine shops in Cape Town and 1 in Johannesburg and Alex did  site visits and we are now more confident that we can get to the quality level that we aim for. The tweeter waveguide profile in front of the tweeter and the back where the tweeter bolts in the baffle with the think lip are quite tricky aspects but the sample that one outfit machined today is very encouraging. The pics show the sample. So its seems that we will still get some baffles machined in 2016.  :)




Online Air

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Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #170 on: December 30, 2016, 03:40:11 PM »
So it is almost 2017 and this will probably be my last post for 2016. I said, in the beginning of the year, that we will launch the new speakers in 2016 and I was optimistic( as usual) but the project has gained so many new dimensions in both design and execution that I am not disappointed with the progress at all. The pics below is of an important part, namely the baffle of the VivacÚ. We were adamant to get it right and I think the results speak for itself. Not only is the baffle technically/acoustically critical, we also have the view that it is the face of the product and nothing should be left to chance. All the major parts have now been refined and we will go ahead with the manufacturing of more units for the 1st speakers to be assembled. We still need some work on the port, but the rest is done and dusted.



















Offline SeanS

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Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #171 on: December 31, 2016, 10:24:06 PM »
most impressive attention to detail, well done. I suspect you will have a positive 2017  :thumbs:

Offline Nicholas

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Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #172 on: January 01, 2017, 09:05:45 PM »
Wow, that is great work, very high level of engineering.

What is your plan with the finish on the baffle? Looks brushed, not easy to get perfection when dealing with rounds...

Looking forward to seeing and hearing the finished product, you are really busy with something special.

Offline Nirvana

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Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #173 on: January 02, 2017, 10:48:27 AM »
Yep,we're all waiting with bated breath to see and hear the prototypes (prolly none more so than Stefan himself),but he is doing things wisely and thoroughly.

    So,plenty of  :coffee: for  :drool:
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Online Air

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Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #174 on: January 03, 2017, 11:20:55 AM »
hi SeanS, Nicholas and Nirvana, I really appreciate your interest and appreciation of our efforts with this project. The proof will be the sound and looks but I firmly believe that the fanatical attention to detail from the bottom up or rather inside out will pay off in the final product. I can't wait for the year to be in full swing so we can tackle the last stretch.

As for the finish of the baffle Nicholas, we will anodize it black. We are currently investigating options and talking to potential partners in this regards.

All the best for 2017, may you all have lots of good things, mostly the things you really need but also a few sweeteners to make it a special and memorable year.
Stefan

Online Air

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Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #175 on: January 03, 2017, 05:27:44 PM »
Maybe of interest an overview of the preliminary stats of the VivacÚ:

Concept: 3 way, 3 driver design.
Sensitivity: 89dbs/W
Frequency range (-3db): 33HZ to 30khz
Impedance: Nominal 8 ohms, minimum 5.3 ohms at 300HZ
Power handling: 100W in direct mode and 250W in HP mode(high power)
Drivers: 230cm bass driver, 156cm midrange and 25mm soft dome
Crossover points: 150hz and 5500hz (frequency, impedance, and phase optimized)
Dimensions(w, d and h): 370mm, 210mm & 980mm
Weight: Estimated 70kg per speaker.
Finish: Walnut as standard and Satin Black as option

The VicacÚ is all about a superb midrange performance with the mid driver as the heart of the loudspeaker covering almost the full range of the human voice and augmenting this with a supple bass cut from the same cloth of as the mids with a top end that is extended and naturally voiced not to draw attention but rather to complete the sonic picture. It is easy to drive and an amplifier of quality rather than brute power will be the best partner. Best results will be in the direct mode with an amplifier of 20W-100W. SETs of 15W or more would be great. In HP mode the midrange clarity will be slightly compromised but the full dynamic capability of the design can be enjoyed to fill larger rooms or increase ultimate SPL levels. Because of the design, it will integrate easily into most rooms and systems both acoustically and visually without sending its owner on a quest to find just the right amplifier or source but at the same time will reward any improvement in upstream equipment.

As far as pricing goes the only thing I can assure all is that it will be very competitive against speakers of the same performance and build quality and even more so for anyone that is on this forum.


Online King_Julian_S

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Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #176 on: January 03, 2017, 05:40:38 PM »
Sound like you had a good end state / target in mind ... nice to see that the speaker was build around the mid , but also give options to those who are after dynamic range etc... will make it versatile....

Good luck sire ... I can almost bet another local
" giant killer " is going to grace our shores in 2017...




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Offline Trompie67

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Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #177 on: January 04, 2017, 06:13:55 AM »
Maybe of interest an overview of the preliminary stats of the VivacÚ:

Concept: 3 way, 3 driver design.
Sensitivity: 89dbs/W
Frequency range (-3db): 33HZ to 30khz
Impedance: Nominal 8 ohms, minimum 5.3 ohms at 300HZ
Power handling: 100W in direct mode and 250W in HP mode(high power)
Drivers: 230cm bass driver, 156cm midrange and 25mm soft dome
Crossover points: 150hz and 5500hz (frequency, impedance, and phase optimized)
Dimensions(w, d and h): 370mm, 210mm & 980mm
Weight: Estimated 70kg per speaker.
Finish: Walnut as standard and Satin Black as option

The VicacÚ is all about a superb midrange performance with the mid driver as the heart of the loudspeaker covering almost the full range of the human voice and augmenting this with a supple bass cut from the same cloth of as the mids with a top end that is extended and naturally voiced not to draw attention but rather to complete the sonic picture. It is easy to drive and an amplifier of quality rather than brute power will be the best partner. Best results will be in the direct mode with an amplifier of 20W-100W. SETs of 15W or more would be great. In HP mode the midrange clarity will be slightly compromised but the full dynamic capability of the design can be enjoyed to fill larger rooms or increase ultimate SPL levels. Because of the design, it will integrate easily into most rooms and systems both acoustically and visually without sending its owner on a quest to find just the right amplifier or source but at the same time will reward any improvement in upstream equipment.

As far as pricing goes the only thing I can assure all is that it will be very competitive against speakers of the same performance and build quality and even more so for anyone that is on this forum.

I think you meant those specs should be mm, not cm?
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Online pwatts

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Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #178 on: January 04, 2017, 07:52:49 AM »
While we're nitpicking, as per SI unit convention Hz has a lowercase 'z'.

Online Air

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Re: Air Loudpeakers
« Reply #179 on: January 04, 2017, 09:41:53 AM »
Hi guys, thanks for pointing out the mistakes/typos.

Of course Trompie67 it should be mm, ie 230mm, 156mm and 25mm but I guess some audiophiles would love the idea of a 2.3m bass driver.  :)