Author Topic: Speaker Kits  (Read 20269 times)

Offline decibel

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Re: Speaker Kits
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2009, 12:09:16 AM »
Tx Kay, I'll definitely add more photos of the products as I go along with different finishes etc. I'll also be adding the availability of some DIY components such as air coils etc. very soon, and hopefully some reviews on the finished kits after the CPT forum members get together this coming Saturday (31st).
Read the AVSA magazine review of the CF552-kit floor stander in the September 2010 issue. Please visit www.decibelaudio.co.za for more info.

JacoP

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Re: Speaker Kits
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2009, 10:51:19 AM »
Sorry, but I can't be in agreement here.

You use PQ Sound woofers @ R112.30 each and the tweeters @ R75.00 each.
That gives you a total of R374.60 for all the drivers.
Give or take R250.00 for the X-Overs and a few bucks for the port, terminal, stuffing, etc.

Your kit price is R2599.00 for a pair, making your profit margin more than 200%!!!

I have used these woofers, tweeters and X-Overs before in a venture that I started, and my price for something similar to the "CM651" was R1250.00 per pair. I battled to sell them as you can buy, e.g. Wharfedales at HiFi Corp for cheaper than this and they have a brand name attached.

These "Kevlar" woofers are also not that great, as their TSP's are never the same; not even in the same batch.

My adivce: Drop your pricing as anybody with a Router, Table saw and the Internet can build these for under R800.00

Offline ghostinthemachine

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Re: Speaker Kits
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2009, 11:43:37 AM »
Well Jaco

Not defending anybody but do take notice that CNC-ed MDF panels are included in the kit. This is an assemble and play kit which changes the game a wee bit.
Let the music speak...

Offline Timber_MG

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Re: Speaker Kits
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2009, 11:52:15 AM »
My opinion is to let the market decide on the viability of any commercial venture.

Offline decibel

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Re: Speaker Kits
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2009, 12:24:14 PM »
Quote
Sorry, but I can't be in agreement here.

You use PQ Sound woofers @ R112.30 each and the tweeters @ R75.00 each.
That gives you a total of R374.60 for all the drivers.
Give or take R250.00 for the X-Overs and a few bucks for the port, terminal, stuffing, etc.

Your kit price is R2599.00 for a pair, making your profit margin more than 200%!!!

I have used these woofers, tweeters and X-Overs before in a venture that I started, and my price for something similar to the "CM651" was R1250.00 per pair. I battled to sell them as you can buy, e.g. Wharfedales at HiFi Corp for cheaper than this and they have a brand name attached.

These "Kevlar" woofers are also not that great, as their TSP's are never the same; not even in the same batch.

My adivce: Drop your pricing as anybody with a Router, Table saw and the Internet can build these for under R800.00

Hi Jaco,

I have tested numerous of these drivers. After burn in time, they settle, and the differences in TS specs is more than acceptable IMO.

You must remember to add costs for the flatpack CNC cut enclosure panels. With this included, my markup is not even close to what you suggest. (the enclosures are really very easy to assemble and comes with good instructions, which is time spent and all adds to the package)

I'm not a fan of Wharfedale (and have bought some grey products form Hifi Corp before, unknowingly so), but despite that, the kits I supply is not for the guy who wants to buy off the shelf. It's for the DIYer who would like a good speaker set and have the time and ability to apply a custom finish etc.

What I have seen some people do with a router and table saw is scary  ;), but seriously, for R800 you pushing it a bit, and not taking all factors (design, time, parts, materials etc.) into consideration.

Some of the CPT forum members are coming around on Saturday. I'm eager to get their opinions, and will post feedback after.

This venture is still very new, and only time will tell if it can work.

Tx for your input  :).
Read the AVSA magazine review of the CF552-kit floor stander in the September 2010 issue. Please visit www.decibelaudio.co.za for more info.

JacoP

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Re: Speaker Kits
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2009, 12:29:19 PM »
ghostinthemachine,

At that price, one would expect better drivers. The fact that the MDF is CNC'd, is great and I do not dispute the quality there, but itís also not expensive. I had a guy in Pretoria do mine for about R250.00 per pair.

For the rest, I relied on good old woodworking skills and tools.  ;)

But to put, well, substandard "cheap" drivers into a MDF box and sell it at this cost, is a bit absurd.
Then the buyer has to spend more money on finishing, i.e. veneers or good paint, which is also expensive, as I would not want R2600 worth of speakers looking like R300 units.

Offline Hennie

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Re: Speaker Kits
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2009, 03:57:25 PM »
I'm just curious as to what the Qts of the Infinity Dynamic midbass driver is? Did you find them suitable for bass reflex loading?

Offline Shonver

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Re: Speaker Kits
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2009, 04:17:51 PM »
But to put, well, substandard "cheap" drivers into a MDF box and sell it at this cost, is a bit absurd.

The performance of a system is not determined by the cost of the parts. For instance, the cost of parts to the high-volume producer is not as high as the final price might suggest.

I myself have expressed a reservation concerning the apparent simplicity of the crossover. The designer has qualified his choice to go this route, so I leave the final verdict until I have heard them. I have heard the yellow kevlars sound very good in my own speakers and at Mcully Music studios, so I don't think they are as poor as you suggest. I don't know the tweeter, so guess what? Everything else is either speculation or sour grapes. Give the man a chance; he's been bold enough to invite total strangers to come and sample his offering.

We'll know by Saturday.
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Offline decibel

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Re: Speaker Kits
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2009, 05:13:33 PM »
I'm just curious as to what the Qts of the Infinity Dynamic midbass driver is? Did you find them suitable for bass reflex loading?

Qts=0.54. The EBP averages at about 93.5, which suggests that these drivers will work well in both sealed or vented, although, 93.5 tends more towards vented.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 05:16:42 PM by decibel »
Read the AVSA magazine review of the CF552-kit floor stander in the September 2010 issue. Please visit www.decibelaudio.co.za for more info.

Offline GearSlave

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Re: Speaker Kits
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2009, 05:18:41 PM »
Sorry, but I can't be in agreement here.

You use PQ Sound woofers @ R112.30 each and the tweeters @ R75.00 each.
That gives you a total of R374.60 for all the drivers.
Give or take R250.00 for the X-Overs and a few bucks for the port, terminal, stuffing, etc.

Your kit price is R2599.00 for a pair, making your profit margin more than 200%!!!

I have used these woofers, tweeters and X-Overs before in a venture that I started, and my price for something similar to the "CM651" was R1250.00 per pair. I battled to sell them as you can buy, e.g. Wharfedales at HiFi Corp for cheaper than this and they have a brand name attached.

These "Kevlar" woofers are also not that great, as their TSP's are never the same; not even in the same batch.

My adivce: Drop your pricing as anybody with a Router, Table saw and the Internet can build these for under R800.00

You know, this is EXACTLY what I was afraid of!! ::)

Jaco, Decibel came here with a product to offer the fellow DIY'ers. He worked out a price and he's prepared to maintain a presence here for the sake of marketing and support.

I find your post above to be rude, offensive and in very bad taste. I'm sure you posted your remarks with the best of intentions, but I'm pretty sure we are all capabale of making decisions for ourselves. If we do feel his pricing to be out of line, we will not buy his product, simple as that. If there are some of us here that does like his product, we will buy it. Finish and klaar.

What get's my nose out of joint is that you proceed to quote his cost prices here on the forum and then make unqualified statements about what you think the man should charge for his work. All of this considering the fact that you've not even heard nor seen them yet. You do not have intimate knowledge of this product. If you have tried these woofers in the past and did not like the way they sounded, how do you know you didn't mess up the XO design?! Well, you don't and I thus call your statements unqualified. So would any statement be that I make regarding the quality of the kit. BECAUSE I'VE NOT HEARD IT AND I DONT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT IT.

So please, I suggest you keep your comments to yourself and think twice before you comment on something that could take the bread out of someone elses mouth.

Thanks

Gert
Resistance is not futile; it is voltage divided by current (R=V/I)

Offline Hennie

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Re: Speaker Kits
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2009, 05:34:59 PM »
Qts=0.54. The EBP averages at about 93.5, which suggests that these drivers will work well in both sealed or vented, although, 93.5 tends more towards vented.

Thanks, and good luck with your venture.

Offline Timber_MG

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Re: Speaker Kits
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2009, 09:42:28 PM »
I think many people would be shocked if they realized the parts cost for mass-produced speakers (and many of the tweets in there are just down right nasty).

I have had good experiences with the yellow cones in the past too and am actually more interested in the tweeter section than the commercial merits of this venture (perhaps some measurements?)

Offline Timber_MG

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Re: Speaker Kits
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2009, 09:47:02 PM »
Higher Qts woofers in a small, sealed enclosure for speakers aimed to be high passed can work really, really well for HT scenarios. Perhaps a plug for the ports or for those more traditional in their ways a sock :)

Offline Hennie

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Re: Speaker Kits
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2009, 10:42:37 PM »
Yes, that's almost an aperiodic box you are describing. With that Qts, a small box with an aperiodic vent could work well, like some Dynaco's of yesteryear.

Offline decibel

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Re: Speaker Kits
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2009, 12:38:07 AM »
Some good points from Timber and Hennie.

For those who don't know, an aperiodic design will allow a smaller enclosure size than would normally be possible in a sealed box by using a 'damped port'. A smaller sealed box will raise the Q, and cause a peak in lower FQs and impedance. The dampened port will allow air to leak from the box, and result in lowering the peaks for low FQs and impedance. This is claimed to provide better and clearer bass, and an easier load on your amp at lower FQs.

The CM651-Kit Stand Mount is perfect for such experimentation. Blocking the port completely will actually give you an ideal sealed enclosure with Qtc of 0.71. Playing around with damping material in the port and enclosure gives you the option to then tune the system to your particular listening environment. Good for rear surround speakers, but I have to add that the box volume for this model as vented design has also been optimized to work well close to a wall without becoming boomy (for those of us with limited space). Very low bass lacks of course in both types of enclosures, but it has to taken into consideration that the main focus of these units are ideally for HT use with a subwoofer. I will hopefully be able to add a 3-way design and/or TL soon that will address the lower FQs, and a subwoofer kit.

I'm really enjoying your input! The comments and discussions are really placing some emphasis on the purpose of these kits: it is for playing around with in an effort to get an understanding of how a speaker works and interacts with your unique listening environment, and then perhaps in future moving on to building your own loudspeakers or upgrading to a more advanced kit.

I can never claim that these 1st two models will completely blow your socks off, but can say that I have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of performance for the purpose that they have been designed for so far.
Read the AVSA magazine review of the CF552-kit floor stander in the September 2010 issue. Please visit www.decibelaudio.co.za for more info.