Author Topic: Valve etiquette and care  (Read 22105 times)

Offline darrylo

Re: Valve etiquette and care
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2013, 06:06:26 PM »
High power @ a ridiculously high price.

Yes, because you need huge output transformers, plenty of valves and its a tiny market so no mass production.
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Offline Phase

Re: Valve etiquette and care
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2013, 07:19:55 PM »
And I'm still getting a valve amp.

Offline King_Julian_S

Re: Valve etiquette and care
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2013, 08:32:44 PM »
The answer is high efficiency speakers I suppose.
I noticed ,  when I was buying my Philips vintage speakers from the guy, he demo'd with a pioneer SS and soundscraftsman mixer thing and he literally was so carefull when adjusting he's knobs ,,, I think one has to just be very carefull with high powered SS and High efficiency speakers..

But what I noticed is when using the valve amp with these philips speakers on very low volume is that they are extremely musical and enjoyable.. I did not get the same feeling from my Mcintosh and B&W combo at all when on such low volumes..they sounded better when you up the volume , but maybe there is where the fatigue factors also comes in...
Non audiophile music lover...

Offline Winslow

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Re: Valve etiquette and care
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2013, 09:29:11 PM »
You do not need high power you need decent power.
I have a 10w $200,00 valve amp tiny thing.  It plays my Vandersteen 2CE Signatures 87db efficient three drivers loud enough without any strain to shake the place.
These Speakers are reckoned to need power  to drive them.
Well they don't they have a stable impedance curve never dropping bellow 4ohms and a first order cross over.
They played just as loud without strain as they did on 125w solid state mono blocks.
And had better bass on the little valve amp.  In fact when I first tried it I did not even bother with the transistor amps again and sold them.

My Klipsh KG4's will chase you down the road they are that loud and clear no stress on just 12w.

The right speaker amp match is the secrete to good sound.  Have had lots of speakers and some do not like valve amps for sure but they never sounded good on anything they were just lousy speakers IMO.
Had some well respected Missions and I could never get them to sound good on any amp except an 70's vintage 35w Teac go figure they hated a new 40w Cambridge so you tell me.
They went into a flap on all my valve amps and ditto with a class A Musical Fidelity A20

The 12w in triode on the Vandersteen's using the Line Magnetic is plenty loud believe you me.  Jack it up sure it shows some stress but that is way above any sane listening level.
Play it in 32w ultra linear and it shows no strain at all. there is in fact not much difference between that amp with 32w and my mono blocks with 78w.
If I had to for any reason part with the big amps I could live with the smaller amp on these speakers no problem..
You have in-effect two amps in one, triode is intimate and ultra linear is rocking what solid state gives you the option to change the amp to suit the music played.

Most of us do not have large listening areas and no matter how powerful your amp you will seldom exceed 5 or even less watts on it.

Played some ancient Jamos at a party once years ago with a 12w solid state Technics the cops came three times telling us to turn it down.
The amp and the speakers came out fine no damage. The Cops gave me a clout for being cheeky.  Still have that Amp.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 09:35:46 PM by Winslow »
"Audiophiles don't use their equipment to listen to your music.
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Offline King_Julian_S

Re: Valve etiquette and care
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2013, 11:09:04 PM »
Lol Mr W.

Lucky u only still have the amp and not the "clouty" cops.

Non audiophile music lover...

Offline Ampdog

Re: Valve etiquette and care
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2013, 03:18:29 AM »
Ouch ....

Sense some dissentment here ..... Winslow, Charles, I did mention conditions in my commentary. Chemists say paraffin leaves the least residue behind (only the smell ....).

In valve days all valve amplifiers, whether separates or integrated, were switched on with one switch. What did help was that power supplies had indirectly heated rectifiers, but then also not always; there were the 5Y3s and 5U4s and still are. Yes, I fully agree with 'not taking a chance' - only strange how many modern valve amplifiers are suddenly sensitive to things not a threat before.

But many use ss pre-amps and such. There I would agree that turning on the power amplifier (valve and transistor) later will assist in saving the loudspeaker. But then again! Valves take time to warm up and start emission slowly, and power valves more so than smaller ones. Any pulse from the pre-amp (if all are switched on simultaneously) will by then have passed. Anybody fiddling with the inputs of any amplifier while already operative takes a chance irrespective of the nature of the amplifier, unless volume is turned down to zero.

But perhaps this is getting slightly off-topic. Yes, one does not use a valve amplifier for economic reasons, only for personal (nostalgic?) reasons or such. I make bold to say I have as much experience of valve amplifiers as the next man; I still use my transistor amplifier and reserve valve builds for those who want them.   
Audio must be the only branch of engineering where lack of basics' knowledge is considered a superior form of wisdom. (Anon)

Offline Winslow

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Re: Valve etiquette and care
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2013, 09:07:46 AM »
Ouch ....


But perhaps this is getting slightly off-topic. Yes, one does not use a valve amplifier for economic reasons, only for personal (nostalgic?) reasons or such. I make bold to say I have as much experience of valve amplifiers as the next man; I still use my transistor amplifier and reserve valve builds for those who want them.   

Paraffin hell I would not put that stuff near anything but a lamp or to clean an old engine nasty stuff.
It does leave an oily residue (it is a wax after all) behind that water alone cannot remove

Nostalgic? :thinking:   Personally I think not.

I use them because they to put it in simple terms just play music they way music is meant to be heard.  :dance:
Modern valve amps are hassel free no need to be afraid of them they do not blow up.  :fuse:

Personal?  :thinking: Yes that is a personal choice just like a preference for  :notworthy: vinyl playback. Or for that matter those that choose to listen to music on those things with yellow cones and those tweeters that sound like finger nails on a black board.  :sh1tstirrer:  :point:  (some but not all they can sound great)  :cleansound:
Or a dislike for the sound of most things using a Mofset.  :puke:

Some like panel speakers in their various forms, some like horns, some like stand mounts, some like full range speakers, some like near field monitors or single driver speakers.
Some like vintage, some like high tec, the possibilities are endless, some like surround, some like mono reproduction and black and white photography and so on nobody is right or wrong.

Yep it is all personal that is why we live in a free society  :Whoohoo: and can choose for ourselves what we like.
That might not be to others tastes or preferences so what. We all still have the freedom to express our views so far at least.

Let thine own ears be thy guide  :notworthy:
"Audiophiles don't use their equipment to listen to your music.
Audiophiles use your music to listen to their equipment."

Allan Parsons

Offline King_Julian_S

Re: Valve etiquette and care
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2013, 08:12:09 PM »
Tx guys
All seems passionate about their preferences... 😄.
But I do find the info extremely useful and does make one at least have some options to choose from.

Tx a mill...

Non audiophile music lover...

Offline Ampdog

Re: Valve etiquette and care
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2013, 01:35:36 AM »
Perhaps allowed an OT reply to Winslow:

The paraffin I mentioned is composed of a mixture of three of the alkanes of crude oil viz. tridecane (C13H28), tetradecane (C14H30) and pentadecane (C15H32). It does not contain any wax and leaves no residue if nothing funny has been added. The paraffin waxes start at a higher carbon count, some C17Hxy. We used that for cleaning electronic instruments at the CSIR. But turpintine (C10H16) will probably evaporate faster because of its shorter carbon chain - also if nothing is added; anything is possible these days. As far as I know paraffin is cheaper.
Audio must be the only branch of engineering where lack of basics' knowledge is considered a superior form of wisdom. (Anon)

Offline King_Julian_S

Re: Valve etiquette and care
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2013, 12:13:41 PM »
Hi J

Is the parafin buyable ? Or does one have to mix it self ,?
Where can someone get to see how it works if needed.
Non audiophile music lover...

Offline Crankshaft

Re: Valve etiquette and care
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2013, 02:17:42 PM »
Hi J

Is the parafin buyable ? Or does one have to mix it self ,?
Where can someone get to see how it works if needed.

I'm also interested.  Is this lab-grade paraffin or just the regular corner kafee variety?

Offline Winslow

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Re: Valve etiquette and care
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2013, 11:20:49 PM »
The Paraffin freely available is illuminating paraffin and from what you describe must be a different mix to what you were using. This  illuminating stuff is oily.
The only other paraffin I am aware of is power paraffin which is usually green and is even worse.
Used as a change over fuel in tractors and stationery engines its awful stuff, messy like diesel.

All I know for sure is that Illuminating Paraffin is like oil.
Having being brought up in Central Africa North of the  Zambezi.
We always used to add a bit to any stagnant water pronto old tires drums and rock polls etc. To kill mosquito larva it formed an oily film over the water very quickly and when the little wriggling devils came up for air it coated them and they suffocated.
It kills aquatic life we were always very careful with it never put it in water with other life in it. They took care of the larva very well they are a tadpoles favorite food.
"Audiophiles don't use their equipment to listen to your music.
Audiophiles use your music to listen to their equipment."

Allan Parsons

Offline King_Julian_S

Re: Valve etiquette and care
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2014, 09:46:21 PM »
Hi guys.

Back to this thread...

So what is the recommended way to clean the glass of our bottles ?
Alcohol ?

I see some nice fingerprints on my bottles and apparently that causes hot spots or something ?
Non audiophile music lover...

Offline Henry

Re: Valve etiquette and care
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2014, 10:36:30 PM »
I use Rubbing Alcohol. The 91% stuff you can buy at Dis-Chem.

Offline skollie

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Re: Valve etiquette and care
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2014, 11:36:22 PM »
Well its a completely different technology from a lifetime ago.They really didn't need plenty of power with the efficient speakers.

There are modern high power valve amps available these days.

Quite. I can (almost) raise the roof with my Leak Stereo 20 at only 10W p/ch. It sometimes sounds even louder than My Dynaco SCA35 at 17W p/c, using the same pair of speakers.

skollie

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