Author Topic: "Best" Sub for two channel audio.  (Read 1936 times)

georgev

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"Best" Sub for two channel audio.
« on: November 02, 2007, 12:32:12 pm »
Newbie here, please be kind.
What is the best sub for two channel audio.
I am driving a pair of 802's with a Mark Levinson 336 and feel that at low volumes, the sound is not quite as full as it should be.
I want sth. "musical". I don't want HT type bass.
Thanks.

skinnyfat

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Re: "Best" Sub for two channel audio.
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2007, 12:46:47 pm »
Firrstly let me welcome you to AVForums  :)

802's and you still not happy LOL, wish I had 802's when I was a neebie  ;). have you tried re-arranging your room first and experimenting with different speaker locations ?

Is it only at low volumes that this is an issue? Because if it is I doubt (but stand to be corrected) that a sub will help, and if it does my feeling is you gonna have too much bass at low volumes.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 12:48:18 pm by skinnyfat »

Hennie

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Re: "Best" Sub for two channel audio.
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2007, 01:59:36 pm »
That speaker has significant bass extension. It would be difficult to blend with a sub without significant overlap between the mains and the sub.

Does the system sound OK at higher volumes? If so, you may be experincing the phenomenon described in the following article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

Higher powered speakers like you have compress less and the Fletcher - Munson effect is more evident. Lower power speakers with more thermal compression make this effect less noticable.

Shonver

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Re: "Best" Sub for two channel audio.
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2007, 02:08:59 pm »
Ah- the old Fletcher-Munson syndrome.

Perhaps you should try striking a balance between low volume listening satisfaction and dominating bass at higher levels. You can tune for this by trying different positions relative to the walls. Closer to the wall will reinforce the bass more.
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Gliding Dutchman

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Re: "Best" Sub for two channel audio.
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2007, 03:06:58 pm »
George,

B&W speakers tend to have rather "lean" bass than most other speakers or rather, other speakers are "sweet" sounding compared to B&W's.

A few years ago I had the oppertunity to audition a set of B&W 802N speakers with Classe Delta gear and were rather dissapointed in them because of their "lean" bass - well, my reference werent quite accurate and that is why I preseved them as I did. I now own a set of B&W Preference 6 floorstanders and have grown accustomed to their exreme flat response. I wouldnt have it otherwise...

GD

Gliding Dutchman

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Re: "Best" Sub for two channel audio.
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2007, 03:10:06 pm »
but to anwser your actual question...

Best sub?? Must be the B&W ASW825 - it is going to be the best sonis match for the 802 N's.

GD

georgev

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Re: "Best" Sub for two channel audio.
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2007, 05:23:40 pm »
I have tried moving them around, I have spiked them(seemed to make some difference), lean is the word. Louder is great.
The DD series from Velodyne? REL, thoughts?

Ampdog

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Re: "Best" Sub for two channel audio.
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2007, 01:48:18 am »
I notice that room effect has not really been mentioned except for a brief moving of loudspeakers "closer to the wall".

A sketch of your room would have been illuminating, Georgev. It is possible in a "typical" (whatever that might mean!) room to get as much as 20dB difference between the loudness of 40 - 60 Hz tones simply depending on where one stands (it is called standing waves). Adjusting of a loudspeaker(s) will move these positions and help somewhat, but never eliminate them. The position improves with notes of short duration, as low notes need some time to "build up", depending on the room characteristics (room Q). It will still exist, however. Also - and this is a disadvantage with stereo - two sources of low frequencies will always show cancellation where they are multiples of half-wavelengths of tones apart, and augmentation in between.

What to do? When you have good loudspeakers as mentioned, adding another or replacing might not help a lot. Try different positions, but be aware that there will always be standing waves i.e. nodes and anti-nodes, and that their comparative loudness' will shift with frequency.

PS: Sorry, on rereading I just noticed that you did move the speakers around. My remarks still apply, however. Hope you can get it satisfactory.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 01:58:11 am by Ampdog »
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skinnyfat

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Re: "Best" Sub for two channel audio.
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2007, 11:09:55 am »
Unfortunately, apart from DIY, the best subs aren't yet readily available here in SA. SVS, BK offer great value for money and if you're prepared to take the chance on two fronts you may consider one of them,

1. Purchasing without a demo

2. Purchasing on line

georgev

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Re: "Best" Sub for two channel audio.
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2007, 01:43:56 pm »
Anyone know of the JL Fathom subs? Are they represented/sold here?
Heard very good things about them. Reviewed on Stereophile and AVRev. very favourably.

georgev

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Re: "Best" Sub for two channel audio.
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2007, 01:45:24 pm »
My pre-amp does not have a sub out, so how do I connect to the sub and to the speakers?
I would like to use the balanced options available.

skinnyfat

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Re: "Best" Sub for two channel audio.
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2007, 01:47:47 pm »
You'll need to ensure the sub you get has high level inputs

georgev

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Re: "Best" Sub for two channel audio.
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2007, 01:53:01 pm »
And then?

skinnyfat

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Re: "Best" Sub for two channel audio.
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2007, 02:05:43 pm »
connect via your speaker terminals.

georgev

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Re: "Best" Sub for two channel audio.
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2007, 10:13:36 am »
connect via your speaker terminals.

Could you elaborate on that? Kind of "An Idiots guide"?
My pre amp has two sets of main outs, one balanced and one single ended.

Also is there a need/room for an active external crossover to be used in this application? e.g. Behringer.