The influence of reviews

[Ampdog]

Now, now Deon,

That's why you sometimes do not have the required impact. Take a look at overseas magazines and all those spruced up venerable faces (even Ken K's tufts of hair) regularly appearing in support of their waffle; I mean, that just cannot fail to make an impression.

But the AVSA Editor has steadfastly refused over the years to publish a photo of the lot, even taken at the annual Christmas party! And with several exquisite ladies on board to boot! Now if AVforums can also succeed in doing something about that, before we can no longer hide the creases with body putty .....

But Deon had been crafty. He had his photographic exposure in TopCar. Downright preferential treatment, I would say!

[Blues]

if I may resurrect this thread ...

for me reviews in audio-magazines in general have lost a lot of credibility and usefulness in the last maybe 25 years.
for one, I find the internet to be a much better source for information, as I can find reviews, experiences, opinions and specs about a specific product. also there are reviews in forums and non-commercial sites.
second, no audio magazine with advertising is really independent, as they usually make more money from that than from the sales. to me this explains the (overly) kind reviews, and I'm sorry, but I don't think I should have to 'read between the lines' when I pay for a review (if there is anything between the lines in the first place...).
and to run an advert made up as 'cover feature' over 4 pages doesn't sit well with me either. all this insanely priced cable 'tests', with their diplomatic conclusions, a waste of (the reviewers and the readers) time imo.
now don't get me wrong,  I understand that hifi changed from a hobby to a business long time ago, but if this changes the approach of publications from being a help for the readers to being only a help for the sales of manufacturers, I'm just not interested anymore. 

so apart from most audio magazines not covering my personal interests (I'm a stereo-guy, only mildly interested in ht, hdtv, game consoles and home appliances  ), I haven't bought a single item based on commercial reviews in the last 20 years. and I feel  I'm better off this way. so as for the subject of this thread, I'm not under the influence...

[jamster]

if I may resurrect this thread ...

for me reviews in audio-magazines in general have lost a lot of credibility and usefulness in the last maybe 25 years.
for one, I find the internet to be a much better source for information, as I can find reviews, experiences, opinions and specs about a specific product. also there are reviews in forums and non-commercial sites.
second, no audio magazine with advertising is really independent, as they usually make more money from that than from the sales. to me this explains the (overly) kind reviews, and I'm sorry, but I don't think I should have to 'read between the lines' when I pay for a review (if there is anything between the lines in the first place...).
and to run an advert made up as 'cover feature' over 4 pages doesn't sit well with me either. all this insanely priced cable 'tests', with their diplomatic conclusions, a waste of (the reviewers and the readers) time imo.
now don't get me wrong,  I understand that hifi changed from a hobby to a business long time ago, but if this changes the approach of publications from being a help for the readers to being only a help for the sales of manufacturers, I'm just not interested anymore. 

so apart from most audio magazines not covering my personal interests (I'm a stereo-guy, only mildly interested in ht, hdtv, game consoles and home appliances  ), I haven't bought a single item based on commercial reviews in the last 20 years. and I feel  I'm better off this way. so as for the subject of this thread, I'm not under the influence...

Good points mainly, but I would like to point out that most owner reviews are all but useless. If you have bought a piece of equipment you tend to talk it up as much as possible, and in my experiences reviews that I have seen on forums etc are ridiculously biased.

[Blues]

absolutly, I agree.
still sometimes there's something to learn from owner reviews, in regard to reliability, service or synergy. I mentioned owner reviews mainly, because they are another little piece of information that may help to get the big picture.

[Shonver]

...for me reviews in audio-magazines in general have lost a lot of credibility and usefulness in the last maybe 25 years.

I take reviewer's comment with a pinch of salt. But reviews are useful for learning what's doing the rounds in the market (both equipment and hype). It takes one "big" magazine to make a definitive observation about a product; it won't take long before you'll find that same hype in other magazines. And, by the way, the origin of said hype is often the manufacturer itself!

...no audio magazine with advertising is really independent...

See previous comment.

... I understand that hifi changed from a hobby to a business long time ago...

This is the crux of the matter. Magazines aren't what they used to be, so it would be wrong, in my opinion, to expect the same practises to be in place today that existed 30 years ago. Today everything is a sale. From the daily news to investigative journalism. There's always a line/stance to be taken. Consumer product magazines are not the "techno news" publications they once were. Now it's about "Lifestyle". Compare the old "Uit en Tuis" TV program to today's "Top Billing" (why sex it up?).

...I haven't bought a single item based on commercial reviews in the last 20 years...

Good on you. We as consumers (in South Africa) are too used to being led around by the nose. We need to take charge, but we are a long way from that. Hopefully this forum will help to transform matters. Really, it's supply-and-demand. The buyers of the magazines are very much to blame for the status quo.

Good points mainly, but I would like to point out that most owner reviews are all but useless.

Maybe. What use are you trying to get out of it? Most user internet reviews I read also inform you what other components the buyer had compared his purchase to. This is not useless info. Also, most of these DIY reviewers are laymen, like the majority of us, so they are less influenced by the technical genius of the features, but rather how easily they can just
sit back and relax and enjoy their purchase.

If you have bought a piece of equipment you tend to talk it up as much as possible, and in my experiences reviews that I have seen on forums etc are ridiculously biased.

No, not ridiculously biased. I'd say understandably biased. What is ridiculous is if the poor bugger buys a mag in the hope of finding an objective review, little knowing that he might as well have read the manufacturer's brochure.

I realise I've probably stepped on toes here, and I don't mean disrespect, but let's be honest. I don't read consumer magazines to find truth (I'm too old for that); just to see the trends and of course the odd really enjoyable reviews (i.e., the writer's creativity.)

[Andrew]

No, my toes are fine, thank you very much! 

[alanB]

if I may resurrect this thread ...

for me reviews in audio-magazines in general have lost a lot of credibility and usefulness in the last maybe 25 years.
for one, I find the internet to be a much better source for information, as I can find reviews, experiences, opinions and specs about a specific product. also there are reviews in forums and non-commercial sites.
second, no audio magazine with advertising is really independent, as they usually make more money from that than from the sales. to me this explains the (overly) kind reviews, and I'm sorry, but I don't think I should have to 'read between the lines' when I pay for a review (if there is anything between the lines in the first place...).
and to run an advert made up as 'cover feature' over 4 pages doesn't sit well with me either. all this insanely priced cable 'tests', with their diplomatic conclusions, a waste of (the reviewers and the readers) time imo.
now don't get me wrong,  I understand that hifi changed from a hobby to a business long time ago, but if this changes the approach of publications from being a help for the readers to being only a help for the sales of manufacturers, I'm just not interested anymore. 

so apart from most audio magazines not covering my personal interests (I'm a stereo-guy, only mildly interested in ht, hdtv, game consoles and home appliances  ), I haven't bought a single item based on commercial reviews in the last 20 years. and I feel  I'm better off this way. so as for the subject of this thread, I'm not under the influence...

Couldnt have said it better myself!!!

The reviews you can find on the internet also need some interpretation but they have the one main benefit of being free, so if they seem to be biased or just plain rubbish, you dont feel taken.

I think the main issue that irritates me is that its very clear that magazines in SA are there more for the benefit of the product suppliers and distributors than for the readers, because the suppliers pay far more than the readers.  Which is why I buy mags quite infrequently just to keep up with the latest technologies.  The reviews are vaguely interesting but not that useful becuase everything reviewed is basically "great", its just the value of "great" that varies and you need to be quite familiar with the reviewer to discern the difference - this goes for both audio and photographic stuff (two of my interests).

PS agree wholeheartedly with the stereo vs AV thing as well, but I understand I dont represent the market anymore, who have moved on to as many cheap speakers as possible producing as loud a bang as possible.  So I dont hold it against the magazine for not pandering to my tastes only, as they have to follow the market    It just means that I buy very infrequently thats all.
 
 

[Hi-Phibian]

One aspect of the internet one must not ignore is the fact that you can hide behind a cloak of anonimity (spelling?). This can change the way people express themselves dramatically. Outrageous statements are easily made for eg and multiple monikers easily registered for false hyping of a product made or sold by the monikers owner.

[joel]

I think the fact that AVSA Reviewers are present on this forum adds a little to our credibility.

Here you can ask us for extra information pertinent to a specific review, and more often than not, we'll give an honest answer.

Personally I would never buy a component based solely on one persons review as there are too many variables to consider, many of which have already been mentioned. The old addage of try before you buy certainly applies.

For interest sake, my home system comprises of the following.

Valve Audio Predator Amplifier
Cambridge Audio Azur 840c CD player
Clearaudio Emotion TT
Clearaudio  SmartPhono Phono Stage
Sonor Audio Cappella Speakers
Sound Structures Stand
Bass Traps
AudioQuest and Van Den Hul Cabling
Various power cables
Vibrapod and Soundcare isolation devices

My room is approximatly 4.8m (L) X 4.2 m (W) X 3m (H).
There is some Asymmetry (apart from the bass traps) in the room that breaks up standing waves.
The room also has wall to wall carpeting and uses a rubberised and corrugated underfelt.

When i get around to it I'll do some RT 60 or RT 30 measurements.   

[GearSlave]

and more often than not, we'll give an honest answer.

Shouldn't you always give an honest answer?!

[Cleansound]

Shouldn't you always give an honest answer?!

If you can get Joel to start talking,you will get an honest answer 

[joel]

Shouldn't you always give an honest answer?!

Well that depends on how much honesty you can take.

If you just spent a whole lot of money on something I think is a piece of rubbish, I would ask if you like said equipment, and if you do I probably wouldn't run it down. Doing so would serve no real purpose other than to irritate you.

 

[BigWoodenSpoon]

Well that depends on how much honesty you can take.

If you just spent a whole lot of money on something I think is a piece of rubbish, I would ask if you like said equipment, and if you do I probably wouldn't run it down. Doing so would serve no real purpose other than to irritate you.

 

If there was complete honesty from day one, people wouldn't have been lead to believe that a R10k cable is going to improve your system to the proprotionate amount you spent on them

[Andrew]

Okay, I've split the topic, because as much as I believe in free debate, it was rendering this initial topic useless, and it's a good one for us at AVSA to look for for guidance purposes.

Please keep to topic on this one. All other off topic posts here are going to be deleted. Tks.

[Viagara]

If you just spent a whole lot of money on something I think is a piece of rubbish, I would ask if you like said equipment, and if you do I probably wouldn't run it down. Doing so would serve no real purpose other than to irritate you.

I agree that it is a tough situation to be in. I can tell someone what I think of their purchase, without serious repercussions(except that the person may want to donner me ), but in the case of a reviewer you have to be a lot more subtle.

Maybe we have to approach reviews(professional and owner-based) the same way you have to approach employment references and rather look what is not mentioned.

As mentioned even owner-based reviews can be useful, but not if the review is done within the first year of buying the equipment as the hype factor plays a big role. If I had to do a review on my setup(and equipment I previously owned), I would be able to list all the positives as well as negatives without degrading any component, but I have lived with it for about three years.