Upgrade advice?

[kay]

Right, now that all the heavyweights are in, would you care to offer some words of wisdom? I have a modest surround setup, and I'd like to get better stereo performance with music. The kit is a Pioneer el-cheapo DVD-585A (hooked up via S/PDIF coax), Denon AVR-2105, and a pair of B&W DM603 S3 serving duty at the front. It's all living in my wooden loft, below a thatch roof - listening position is fairly close, at about 2m away from the speakers. I'm not sure to what I owe it, but bass is very strong and even.

I used to like it reasonably well, but I find it very boring and flat sounding of late. With the right source material it can still excite, but I listen to a lot of indie rock and similar music which is recorded to a rather poor standard. I listened to a couple of reasonably expensive systems lately and was amazed at how good even ordinary records could sound. What would be the best bang in terms of making my kit perform better at stereo, short of starting a whole new system? And what about a small dedicated system? Budget-wise, it's fairly open ended, but along the lines of the current kit's level would be ideal.

[Viagara]

Kay I am sure you would have preferred one of the "heavyweights" to answer, but then again I have never been shy to offer my 2 cents worth

There are two things that to me are glaringly obvious as "culprits" in producing good stereo, the Pioneer DVDP and the fact that its connected via coax, thus bypassing the internal DAC(although it could be that the Denon's DAC is better quality)

Okay I am also tempted to say that the Denon is not the best in respect of stereo reproduction, but that could make me opinionated(which I probably am)

As a first step, I would introduce a dedicated CDP(not connected via Coax!). That way if you do decide on a dedicated system, you could still use the CDP.

[joel]

Before looking at spending money, I would try to figure out what has happened to cause the change in the audio quality of the system.

Have you added new carpets, curtains, furniture etc, or has something broken (perhaps a tweeter is down)?

If the differences you hear are due to changing the environment, then adding new equipment to the same room wont make as big a difference as you might expect.


If you havent made any changes and nothing is broken, then I agree with alphabet, a decent CD player would probably be a worthwhile investment.

 

[kay]

Nope, haven't changed anything in the room. I was away for a while and I think I sort of "forgot" how the system sounded before - I was probably too used to its sound to notice? Anyway, CDP purchas is the what I was leaning towards - just checking yet again what people think

[Shonver]

I was away for a while and I think I sort of "forgot" how the system sounded before - I was probably too used to its sound to notice?

You must give your system time to re-imprint on you (a.k.a. burn-in).

[skinnyfat]

You must give your system time to re-imprint on you (a.k.a. burn-in).

don't you start that again LOL

[jamster]

Buy Dolby's Meridian 203 

Pavel, I have seen the pics of your listening room, and I would start with source and setup to improve the situation. Jokes aside, I have a couple of cheap DACs lying around - you are welcome to borrow one for a while.

If it were me, I wouldn't have gone for a surround sound amp in the first place. Why not look at a decent universal player (Cambridge or Adcom), a stereo amp with some musicality and real power, and a smaller set of speakers (not sure your speakers are great for nearfield listening).

Then again, I have always been known to throw the baby out with the bathwater - check the For Sale section ....

[Timber_MG]

Seriously, always start with the acoustic side of things. Your room and close listening position will forgive many of the 603s sins but the heavy damping on the top and bottom compared to the sides in the early reverberant field will make the system sound more neutral in ther vertical plane than the horizontal where you will see a 1-3kHz dip and a peak starting just above where a reasonably inexpensive tweeter takes over. With all due respect to the folks at B&W, the ears' sensitivity to power response issues gets worse as one approaches 4kHz and the 300-3kHz midrange band is good for a classical 3-way only if it mates to the tweet following perfectly, which is far from the case with that set unfortunately.

Start with felt to help out with the tweeter diffraction and then look at applying the miror trick to arrange furniture/ panels (masquerading as art if need be)

Anyone know what that tweet might be capable of on a waveguide? The narrow surround might make it interresting enough an experimet for me to cnc rout out a little baffle to test it on (half my motors arrived today, time to start this laser-cut steel business)

[kay]

Seriously, always start with the acoustic side of things. Your room and close listening position will forgive many of the 603s sins but the heavy damping on the top and bottom compared to the sides in the early reverberant field will make the system sound more neutral in ther vertical plane than the horizontal where you will see a 1-3kHz dip and a peak starting just above where a reasonably inexpensive tweeter takes over. ... Start with felt to help out with the tweeter diffraction and then look at applying the miror trick to arrange furniture/ panels (masquerading as art if need be)

I understand what you're saying and it makes perfect sense, but I'm not sure how to go about treating the room. Also my options with regards to the ceiling/roof are a bit limited I think? I don't want to add more damping to the sides, and I think as far as diffusion goes, the sides are also ok - bookshelf on one side, armchair on the other (ok, more damping here, but anyway). So yeah, the room is far from ideal... the small size really limits what you can do decor-wise

Pavel, I have seen the pics of your listening room, and I would start with source and setup to improve the situation. Jokes aside, I have a couple of cheap DACs lying around - you are welcome to borrow one for a while.

If it were me, I wouldn't have gone for a surround sound amp in the first place. Why not look at a decent universal player (Cambridge or Adcom), a stereo amp with some musicality and real power, and a smaller set of speakers (not sure your speakers are great for nearfield listening).

I would love to borrow a DAC and hear what difference it makes! Knowing what I do now, I would have gone that way to start with. But back when I first started looking, big floor standers and 7 channels amps sounded quite impressive to a newbie At least I bought most of it 2nd hand, and I think the kit's still got enough appeal to sell easily. I would like to morph my system over time into what you describe, perhaps keeping the surround amp for movies. Just not sure where to start and if it will even have much impact considering the room.

[Dolby]

You're more than welcome to borrow the Meridian and see if you pick up a difference. And yes, I've dropped the price Just PM me and let me know.

[Viagara]

But back when I first started looking, big floor standers and 7 channels amps sounded quite impressive to a newbie

Rest assured, you are not the only one and will not be the last either

[Cleansound]

Before looking at spending money, I would try to figure out what has happened to cause the change in the audio quality of the system.

Have you added new carpets, curtains, furniture etc, or has something broken (perhaps a tweeter is down)?

If the differences you hear are due to changing the environment, then adding new equipment to the same room wont make as big a difference as you might expect.


If you havent made any changes and nothing is broken, then I agree with alphabet, a decent CD player would probably be a worthwhile investment.

 

I am new to this forum,so by no means one of the heavyweights you refer to.
I agree with Joel here,a new CD. Player will make a big difference,if you are looking for an affordable player to do A/V,SACD etc. and good stereo,I can recommend an Onkyo 530 E,it is a very well priced player.

[skinnyfat]

I have to chip in here and agree kay. Look into a new CDP first


Don't know your budget but you know I'm a Rotel fan

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Rotel RCD 1072 CD player. Excellent Condition.

[Viagara]

You see, its quite easy Just follow my saga over the past year and you should have a good idea which direction to take

[skinnyfat]

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