Onkyo receiver with Rti-A5 speakers

[alkit]

Hi,

My setup is as follows:
Fronts: Polk Audio Rti-A5
Center: Polk Audio Csi-A6
Surrounds: Polk Audio Rti-A1
Subs: Jamo Sub300 x2
Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR708

I just recently got all the above when I upgraded my home cinema. I use my setup mainly for HT use.

I have already run the Audyssey calibration on my receiver.

I find that the high notes (such as hissing and female voices) sound a bit "bright".

I've read on a few posts that "bright" speakers are better for HT, and that's why I went with the Rti-A series. But in truth, I find the brightness to be a bit irritating. Surely "warm" or "neutral" speakers would sound better, even for HT? How can brightness be a good thing?

Could it be that the receiver is the wrong match for these speakers? Will the brightness disappear as I use the speakers more (burn in)? (Unfortunately I can't do much to change my room acoustics at the moment, but the room is carpeted with the one side almost completely curtained). See diagram here: http://geewiz.co.za/temp/room.html

Thanks for the help!
__________________
Fronts: Polk Audio Rti-A5
Center: Polk Audio Csi-A6
Surrounds: Polk Audio Rti-A1
Subs: Jamo Sub300 x2
Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR708

[Robert_E]

I doubt the brightness will disappear the longer you use the speakers. You said you ran Audyssey... I've been playing around with it for most of the weekend and find it changes the sound on my speakers quite a lot. Have you tried comparing the sound of the different EQ modes on the Onkyo? (No EQ/MultEQ XT/Dynamic EQ). MultEQ actually reduced the brightness on my speakers maybe too much (not that they are harsh). But I have read of people saying the Audyssey EQ made their speakers sound too bright.

[Daniel Weston]

It's the speakers. I run a Polk/Onkyo setup and ja, they are a bit bright. I also run Polk with my NAD stereo setup and its the same there.
Saying that, it isn't overly bright.....

[alkit]

It's the speakers. I run a Polk/Onkyo setup and ja, they are a bit bright. I also run Polk with my NAD stereo setup and its the same there.
Saying that, it isn't overly bright.....

So what's the solution? Are you changing your speakers?

I had the TSI-400 fronts, CS10 center and TSI-100 surrounds, before I upgraded to the RTI range.
The Tsi's didn't sound as large and as detailed, but I didn't pick up any brightness with them?

Why would Polk make their higher range speakers with too high a brightness? Is there any advantage to the brightness/harsh high tones?

[Daniel Weston]

Nope, I love my Polks. Bulletproof for load movies and music

[joel]

Turn down the trebble setting on your receiver.

[alkit]

Turn down the trebble setting on your receiver.

Turned it down to -10db. Helps a bit, but the speakers still sound too bright

[chipwelder]

google flutter echo's?

[alkit]

google flutter echo's?

Highly doubt it. The one side of the room is 60% certain. All couches are fabric, not leather, and the bottom of the room is carpeted by a thick carpet.

See a picture of the room here:
http://geewiz.co.za/temp/room.html

[chipwelder]

You have clapped your hands and it does not go boiiing... I assume.
Are the front speakers those in the corners? if so check first reflection points? You seem to have two very close to each of the speakers. rear wall and side wall. OK, sorry no changes to acoustics... Hmm... but if you turned down the treble and it is still bright, that is all I can suggest. Hissing etc is sibillance usually, that is on the 6-8kHz mark... so should be difficult to sort out the bump in that without killing everything above 8kHz.

[alkit]

You have clapped your hands and it does not go boiiing... I assume.
Are the front speakers those in the corners? if so check first reflection points? You seem to have two very close to each of the speakers. rear wall and side wall. OK, sorry no changes to acoustics... Hmm... but if you turned down the treble and it is still bright, that is all I can suggest. Hissing etc is sibillance usually, that is on the 6-8kHz mark... so should be difficult to sort out the bump in that without killing everything above 8kHz.

The extreme would be getting a different set of speakers - do you think that would solve the problem? Maybe look for a set that is known to be warmer (would have to do some research as not really sure which brand is 'warm').

It's like I put on a song that begins with mid-bass and lows, and I adjust the volume to where I like and it sounds fantastic. 30 seconds into the song when the female vocals start, I go OUCH!

What boggles my mind is I've read on other forums that many guys like a bright sound for home theatre, but I'm struggling to see how a bright sound is a good thing. Yet, even during movies, sounds are slightly tinny and female voices contain an irritating 'ssss' which I don't like at all.

[chipwelder]

If your speakers are that close to the walls, almost no hi-fi speaker would work out well, unless they were designed for it. I am even curious why you don't seem to have a very muddy mid-range and mid-bass too... Some would say the Kef UniQ drivers would work better, but honestly the Polks can't be THAT bright otherwise every reviewer would put up warnings about it.

As an excersise bring the two fronts 50cm directly fwd, i.e. in the direction they are facing in the picture, and re-do the Audyssey, for the bass, I don't see it doing anything for the treble and of course re-do the delays, as they should now get less of a delay. Just listen to it, if if makes no difference in stereo, then perhaps you are just very sensitive to treble and you need different speakers,

Oh ja... does the speaker's manual give any placement advice, sometimes they are meant to play off-axis or something.

[alkit]

If your speakers are that close to the walls, almost no hi-fi speaker would work out well, unless they were designed for it. I am even curious why you don't seem to have a very muddy mid-range and mid-bass too... Some would say the Kef UniQ drivers would work better, but honestly the Polks can't be THAT bright otherwise every reviewer would put up warnings about it.

As an excersise bring the two fronts 50cm directly fwd, i.e. in the direction they are facing in the picture, and re-do the Audyssey, for the bass, I don't see it doing anything for the treble and of course re-do the delays, as they should now get less of a delay. Just listen to it, if if makes no difference in stereo, then perhaps you are just very sensitive to treble and you need different speakers,

Oh ja... does the speaker's manual give any placement advice, sometimes they are meant to play off-axis or something.

Thanks for the info.

1) The typical song first starts with drums etc (bassy instruments), and they sound fantastic. So definitely no problem there. Once the vocals come on, it sounds like someone set the EQ for +15db on all the high frequencies.

1) I don't know how much further away from the walls I can put them, because as you can see in the picture of my room, they need to be right on the sides so that they encompass the whole audience, as the room is pretty narrow.

2) If I turn Audyssey off, the sound becomes "flatter" so to speak (meaning it sounds less lively and less involved), yet the treble sounds just as loud with it on or off.

3) The speaker manual only says the following: "Create an equilateral triangle between the speakers and the listening position. Toe-in to your listening preference."

4) Should I look into getting a Jamo speaker system? I hear they are a very warm speaker system, but I'm worried that they will be a downgrade from the Rti's at the same price range. Any ideas/experience with the Jamos?

[chipwelder]

Don't worry about encompassing the whole audience with FL and FR, the centre channel is for that, it will make a difference, but way smaller than the treble does at the moment.

equilateral triangle toe'd in to the listening posi... well it means that they have to be equally far from the one centre listening position, and point more or less to that position... there's a lot of scope to play in there. Their imaginary forward lines can cross at, behind, or in front of the centre position. If you are worried about not giving everybody sound, I suggest move it as mentioned previously and let the speakers cross 20cm in front of centre listening position's nose.

Honestly if Polk advises you to play them right at the listening position, they shouldn't be that bright. I do believe it is your room, and unless the Jamo's have a much different radiation pattern, I think the change will be small. Ja Jamo's are often less "bright", don't know the modern models... This is where your specialist retailer should come and visit you and look at the room for no charge and make suggestions re speaker placement and / or substitution... You dropped quite a bit of money on this set-up and they need to look after their customers... I think they would be glad to help in all honesty - as issues like these on the internet give their products a bit of a name...

In my previous listening room I had the same issue until I absorbed the first reflection points, and nailed the flutter echo's, and all of a sudden all of the issues I had with adjusting my X-O was gone, and I could dial my tweeter up to where theoretically it made sense.

[alkit]

Don't worry about encompassing the whole audience with FL and FR, the centre channel is for that, it will make a difference, but way smaller than the treble does at the moment.

equilateral triangle toe'd in to the listening posi... well it means that they have to be equally far from the one centre listening position, and point more or less to that position... there's a lot of scope to play in there. Their imaginary forward lines can cross at, behind, or in front of the centre position. If you are worried about not giving everybody sound, I suggest move it as mentioned previously and let the speakers cross 20cm in front of centre listening position's nose.

Honestly if Polk advises you to play them right at the listening position, they shouldn't be that bright. I do believe it is your room, and unless the Jamo's have a much different radiation pattern, I think the change will be small. Ja Jamo's are often less "bright", don't know the modern models... This is where your specialist retailer should come and visit you and look at the room for no charge and make suggestions re speaker placement and / or substitution... You dropped quite a bit of money on this set-up and they need to look after their customers... I think they would be glad to help in all honesty - as issues like these on the internet give their products a bit of a name...

In my previous listening room I had the same issue until I absorbed the first reflection points, and nailed the flutter echo's, and all of a sudden all of the issues I had with adjusting my X-O was gone, and I could dial my tweeter up to where theoretically it made sense.

Thanks a mil again for the help!

I actually bought the speakers through a retailer that isn't in Joburg (he gave great advice tho, and was very helpful during my buying process), so I can't really get him to come take a look unless I fly him down.

I did some experimenting today - Invited 2 friends over and asked them what their opinion was. They actually couldn't notice anything wrong. Even when I pointed out the "brightness" issue, they said the highs and lows all sound equal.
I then connected my old set of floorstanders (10 year old Pioneers), and they produced very similar high frequencies when I played the same source material. So as you said, probably not the fault of the speakers. My old Pioneer receiver (also 10 years old) must have been a very warm sounding receiver, so I guess I'm very sensitive to the brighter sound from my new Onkyo+Polk setup.

What I did notice however (once my friends had left):
When my friends were here, I only played music in stereo. As soon as I played the music in 'mono' mode (ie only the center and sub were active), the sound became exceptionally brighter. This is even with Audyssey active.

Can you recommend any alternative placing of the center to reduce the brightness of it, as I think that may be the biggest bottleneck in the system, and that could also be what I'm picking up during movie dialogue.