Author Topic: Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results  (Read 1489 times)

JimGore

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,194
Many people don't have spray painting equipment, so I am posting a "how-to" based on my own experience:

You can get a seriously good smooth finish with polyurethane paint using a brush if you do the right paint prep, and have a bit of patience to get the technique right.  Interestingly, most people have absolutely no idea how to use a brush correctly.

Prep work (Needs to be done at least 6 hours before you want to start painting)
1.  Sand the substrate to a fine finish
2.  Clean well
3.  Mix up the polyurethane in a ratio of 1:1 with turpentine (it cures slower, and allows for a nice thin coat when cured).  Your paint must have the consistency of water.  This goes against most of the things you will read on the tin, but trust me on this:  thick paint does not work well at all.
4.  After mixing the turpentine into your paint, close it up and leave it to stand for at least 6 hours - this ensures that all the air trapped in the paint mixture surfaces and is released.
5.  Clean your brush well.  Ensure that no bristles will come off when you are painting.  Use a steel wire brush and run it through your paint brush a couple of times to get rid of loose bristles.

Painting
1.  Dip your brush in turpentine so that the bristles are covered in it entirely.
2.  Open your paint mixture (do not shake it at all.  If you do, you will need to leave it for another 6 hours to degass) and very gently stir it with a flat paddle so as to not get any excess air in there.
3.  Shake the excess turpentine from your brush
4.  Dip the brush into the paint so that about 60% of the brisles are in the paint.
5.  Gently depress the brush on the side of the paint container to get excess paint off.  Again, the idea is to get as little air into the paint as possible.
6.  Holding the brush at a 45 degree angle, and apply very slight pressure to bend the bristles slightly as you apply the paint to the substrate.  You need to get a good, wet coat with one single stroke of the brush.

After each coat has cured, sand it smooth with 400 to 600 grit sandpaper, then clean, and paint again until you have the finish and depth you require.

What to do and not to do
* If you need to apply any more pressure to the brush in order to get the coat on, it is time to refill the brush.  Repeat from step 4.
* Do not go over any area where you have applied paint.  Doing so will introduce bubbles in your finish.
* If something happens to the finish while wet, like a bug or dust getting stuck, or a bristle falling out, then leave it there.  Do not try to remove it as you will spoil the finish.  Rather sand it out when cured as it is much less invasive.
*  Never, NEVER go back and forth with the brush.  It will introduce bubbles and spoil your finish.
*  If, after painting the entire surface you find some small bubbles in your finish you can try to gently blow on it using a straw.  This will generally break the surface tension and allow the gas to escape, and the finish will flow over the area to cover it.  You need to do this within the first 10 minutes, or otherwise leave it to cure and then sand it out.
*  If you have a paint run, do not try to fix it.  Leave it to cure, and sand out after.
*  If you are painting wood, you will find that the first coat will be very rough after it has cured.  This is because the paint hardens the grain of the wood and makes them stick up.  After applying the first coat and leaving it to cure, sand it down using 400 grit sandpaper until it is perfectly smooth.  Your second coat should be much better in terms of the texture, and your third coat should be perfectly smooth.
*  If you are painting on wood which shows the grain (ie, you are applying a clear finish on wood), then always sand with the grain - never across it.  By doing this the grain "hides" the sanding marks.  If you sand across the grain the sanding marks show up like a sore thumb, even if you use high grit sandpaper.

General overview
1.  Air in the finish is not your friend.  Take all measures possible to minimize any air getting into your paint.
2.  Paint using a single stroke only
3.  Do not press down on the brush
4.  Do not try to fix anything while the finish is wet.  Do it after the finish has cured.

I have done this on numerous occasions, the most famous being the maple speakers (with black epoxy lines) using the Seas Excel drivers.

It takes some patience and a little practice, but the results are really good.  If you are careful you will get as good as a spray finish using this method.

Good luck and most importantly, have fun.  It shouldn't be a chore, but an effort of love.  The more you care about the finish, the better your results will be.

Regards,
Ian.

GearSlave

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,455
  • Ohm's Law has no business in Audio
    • Studio B
Re: Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2011, 09:43:13 am »
Great tips, thanks Ian! How's about a few pointers to poly products you've used successfully?

JimGore

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,194
Re: Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2011, 09:49:11 am »
The one thing I have learnt is that it doesn't help to try and save R 20 when you are spending R 100 on paint.

If possible, I use these brands exclusively:
* Plascon
* Nova (by Genkem)
* Chemspec

In thinner and diluting agents, I prefer Plascon and Prominent brands.

I don't use any water-based paints as I don't feel they are completely up to standard compared to the oil based paints.  Hopefully that will change as technology becomes better, but for now stay with the oils.

Regards,
Ian.

Naix0naplane

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 57
Re: Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2011, 09:56:33 am »
Ian maybe you have some pics for us? I need the visual stimulation :D

Byrd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,602
    • RAS Consulting
Re: Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2011, 10:12:26 am »
Great tips, thanks Ian! How's about a few pointers to poly products you've used successfully?
And Brushes?

Thanks for the post!
Caution, whatever you read above, may, wonder of wonders, contain some level of jocularity.

ByronH

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 606
  • Squirrel!
    • Foundry
Re: Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2011, 10:35:33 am »
Thanks for posting this Ian, your advice makes a lot of common sense :)
A question though, you mention never brushing over a section that already has been covered; how does one cover large surfaces without overlapping application, or would the 1:1 dilution be more forgiving in that respect? Also, would this dilution ratio be safe to apply to a curved surface, or would this cause runs?
Cheers, Byron.

JimGore

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,194
Re: Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2011, 10:47:06 am »
Quote
Ian maybe you have some pics for us? I need the visual stimulation
I will find the pic here on the forum and post it for you.

Quote
And Brushes?
The brush isn't as important as you would be lead to believe by the guys who do marketing.  I have had good results with a 50mm yellow plastic brush they sell for cheap at the hardware store.  The one thing I do stick with is plastic or natural bristle brushes.  Don't use the fibreglass ones - the bristles break off very easily.

You are welcome to spend R 100 on a lovely Hamilton's natural bristle brush, and they do work well, but you don't need to have it to get a good result.

Quote
A question though, you mention never brushing over a section that already has been covered; how does one cover large surfaces without overlapping application, or would the 1:1 dilution be more forgiving in that respect?
When applying the next line of paint, you will overlap the first one slightly.  The high ratio of dilution allows you to do this and get away with it.

Another thing you get by diluting so much is that the brush strokes tend to flow out before the paint cures which gives you that nice surface.

Now, the reason you don't go back and redo a piece you have already painted is because of the air bubbles, not the brush strokes as such.

Quote
Also, would this dilution ratio be safe to apply to a curved surface, or would this cause runs?
The idea is to wet the substrate with the paint, not to pour the paint on.  This is why a little practive before you start will be most beneficial - it will help you to get just the right amount of paint on without it running.  The runs usually happen at edges or on corners.  You will obviously try to paint in such a way that it doesn't happen, but it will inevitably do so at times.

Cheers,
Ian.

Stereophreak

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 757
  • "There's just no pleasing some people"
Re: Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2011, 11:45:53 am »
I've always used Woodoc on nearly everything, with so-so results, especially the outdoor stuff turns out OK. They advise on the can that one shouldn't thin it. Do you ever thin Woodoc? Is there a specific brand that you can recommend?
My problem with Woodoc (I use the marine one) is that it never dries, although it goes powdery after a few years in the sun (intentionally apparently) , and always clogs up sandpaper after about two strokes, and I don't like working with steelwool. It does last nearly for ever though, and I will continue to use it on my little boat.
So my actual question is, is there a product that dries in a decent amount of time, that is semi-easy to sand, and perhaps better suited to indoor stuff? Am I just being a spoilt little diy'er that needs to grow some chest hair and sand like a man?
[EDIT] I've got some Plascon Sunproof, it doesn't say PU anywhere, is this the sort of thing I could use? Nice thread btw, especially on keeping the air out of the coat.


« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 12:16:00 pm by Stereophage »

Stefan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 859
  • ...
Re: Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2011, 12:13:15 pm »

So my actual question is, is there a product that dries in a decent amount of time, that is semi-easy to sand, and perhaps better suited to indoor stuff? Am I just being a spoilt little diy'er that needs to grow some chest hair and sand like a man?




Tried Rubbol?
(Insert inspirational quote)

Stereophreak

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 757
  • "There's just no pleasing some people"
Re: Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2011, 12:19:44 pm »
Tried Rubbol?
Nope, how does it sand? I've used Woodoc on EVERYTHING, including speaker stands, but sanding with sand paper is impossible, and steel wool sucks. Is Rubbol better in this regard?

Stefan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 859
  • ...
Re: Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2011, 12:26:47 pm »
From what I understand, it's what's normally used on boats. Also used it on doors and window frames outside. When used indoors, it takes longer to 'cure' though, but doesn't stay sticky forever.

@R1k+ per 5litre it's rather expensive.
(Insert inspirational quote)

Stereophreak

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 757
  • "There's just no pleasing some people"
Re: Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2011, 12:37:54 pm »
Sorry for the confusion, but I'm actually looking for something for speaker cabinets and stands and such. But since I know Woodoc, it's all I've been using on everything, even stands etc.

JimGore

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,194
Re: Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2011, 02:43:29 pm »
There is some legislation in the US that forces the paint guys to specify that you should not thin the product.  They do this because thinning it creates more CFC or other hazardous gasses, but like I said before:  Don't worry about what the tin says, just thin it down.  If you are really worried, then do a test piece first and check the results.  I have never had any issues with thinning, as long as you use the correct thinner in the product.

I like the Nova polyurethane for indoor use.  It does actually dry, and can be sanded without too much drama.

If you have clogging problems when sanding, then try water-sanding your piece.  The water stops the sandpaper from getting clogged up.  As long as your wood has been sealed the water will not harm it.

Regards,
Ian.

Shonver

  • AVF Mods
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,156
  • Criss-cross rhythms that explode with happiness
    • Elipse (under construction)
Re: Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2011, 03:54:55 pm »
Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results

Dude... thanks for taking the time. Much appreciated.
________________

DON'T PANIC
Capie

u235

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 706
    • Youngblood Consultants
Re: Instructions: How to apply polyurethane using a brush & get good results
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2011, 04:35:19 pm »
Very useful. Thank you.
My ears are fine, I tell you!