The "You suck AVSA, thread" ;-)

[Andrew]

Clearly, based on certain deranged members and their loyal supporters in recent days, there's a thread just waiting for a number of members to show off their dislike of AVSA and its review process, so in the grand scheme of freedom of expression (within limits), please feel free to post comments as to where you feel we're failing you. We already know ludo hates me, as M.E. (no sleep lost), so moving swiftly on, please tell us where you feel we are going wrong.

Please note, I am referring to 'constructive criticism', and the Keyboard Commandoes and their poorly hidden sarcasm and attempts of biting wit, will be deleted (cry me a river, I won't be moved). This is designed at helping us know where we are going wrong, and how to fix it, if possible.

The only promise I give is that each and every (sane) complaint/request/suggestion will be passed on, and reviewers will be asked to give feedback wherever possible.

Your move.

Edit: Not everyone hates us...my Mom says we're cool even though she has no idea what we're writing about.

[vdL]

When reading a review I like to read 'the good, the bad and the ugly'. When a product is disappointing I want to hear what is the exact reason. Flaws must be torn open and exposed! Good aspects praised and the name of the company disregarded. I find a lot of reviews (in AV, Automobile, etc) to not be truly unbiased, I guess fear of losing income might be the cause.

In other words: reviews need to be 100% transparent otherwise the reader is much better off just using Google.

[ludo]

We already know ludo hates me, as M.E. (no sleep lost), so moving swiftly on, please tell us where you feel we are going wrong.

Well, this is not the "anything goes" part of the forum. Besides I was already tired of that discussion. Just to point out that you should really not take the over-the-top nonsense in the other thread personally, Andrew. Ludo's ghost-writer is an extremely dull person in reality and quite sane (even if keenly interested in audio ) There is certainly nothing menacing about him. You did ask three times...

But the tongue was perhaps so firmly in the cheek that it became uncomfortable. I doubt that you would re-read it all for the send-up that it is, but the criticism is there. Maybe try it again much later.

[Doogle]

OK Andrew, here goes........

Just paged through the latest issue again, from cover to cover and only now, looking at it with a critical eye, realised how bland it's become!
It's just a series of product info from suppliers, and reviews, whether it be hardware or software, from cover to cover.

News:  Just info supplied by importers/distributors and what irritates me (and I have written in about this before) no indication of RRP, so you don't know if you're looking at an item that costs R5, R500, or R5k? If the products are launched here, the suppliers MUST know what they will be selling at.

then comes.....

Spotlight: More new product info from the supplier (Thomas Rogoff Audio)

then comes.....

Cover Feature: Another new product review (Hitachi LED)

then comes.....

Hardware Reviews: in all categories ......Nearly all glowing reports, hardly any criticism, wishy washy info.

then comes.......

Feature:  More product info (Crestron)

then comes......

Another Feature: First bit of editorial article (The Ageing Debate)

then comes......

Software Reviews: DVD's, Music, Vinyl

then comes.....
THE END


Where are the educational articles, comparative tests, problem solving, sound advice, readers letters, etc

Just picked up a random issue of the UK "What Hi-fi"
There are 16 pages of Sound Advice incl Baffled by Technospeak (A glosssary of terms), readers questions, hi-fi system builder, recommended solutions, adding extra kit, home cinema system builder, widescreen article, how to improve speaker settings, surround formats explained, how to connect your AV amp, recommended home cinema solutions.  ALL IN ONE ISSUE!!!!

Apart from the comparative tests which are conducted at comparable price points and are extremely interesting, every piece of equipment tested has " for, against, and verdict", "leading rivals", "technically speaking" and some or other related small relevant column on a new feature, or making the best use of, or how it works, etc  ALL VERY SPECIFIC AND INFORMATIVE

"Hi-Fi Choice" also has group tests, readers questions and answers, their tests even rate products by "sound, features, build, and value" with pros and cons, before the conclusion.

Both have a comprehensive buyers guide in every issue.

Now, before I am shouted down, I realise full well that you don't have the readership/circulation to have a buyers guide in every issue, or have 16 pages of detailed sound advice, etc, but I do feel there should be SOME help articles, SOME educational features, SOME critical comparative tests, and any fresh ideas to make the mag more exciting and interesting for it's readers. I only really buy it to see what's new on the market, and am able to read through it in maybe 10 minutes.

It has become very boring in my humble opinion.

All this given with the best of intentions, no hate, and no personal attacks!

Regards, Doogle  

PS Sorry, forgot to mention Price: if you look at the prices asked for other specialist publications in the Interior Design , Aviation, Boating, PC fields etc, I am sure you would sell as many mags at a far higher price if the content warranted it - certainly from R35 upwards, but it would definitely need more interesting articles, other than reviews.  Doogle

 

[stereo247]

Hey Doogle
+1
...and they don't need more pages (i.e. cost) they just need to use a font smaller than 16 Sanserrif

[Shonver]

What Doogle said. All of it.

I'll add:

AVSA is only new for one day. Other mags can last a week.

I don't appreciate it when reviewers rehash manufacturers' propaganda in the the guise of a review. Plenty of this in AVSA.

I don't like it when reviewers extrapolate performance. E.g., "Should improve more with more hours of breaking in", "Can only get better if used with a beefier amplifier", "This is just the beginning", etc. DS does a lot of this.

Factually inaccurate "educational" articles that appear to be compiled from an afternoon of googling. Where are the experts? At least get an expert to review the article before going to press.

Must Deon Schoeman review all the premium products? Give someone else a chance! 

Bring back the letters page (even if it has to be supplemented by content from the forum), as many readers will still not be visiting the online forum.

Gooi in some vintage, to spice things up.

Put together some kit with synergy; mix 'n match 'n review.

One positive thing one can look forward to is Joel's TV reviews, for it often contains an element of objectivity, as he attempts to calibrate the panels to a standard.

Another positive is the reviewing of readers' systems. I like it.

[Ian]

I stoped buying AVSA over 18 months ago now so I'm not sure if my comments are relevant to this thread, but I'll tell you why I stoped

Every single review was positive It seemed pointless even reading the review because the item in question was always great Very rarely was any item criticised, and even more rarely was there a comparitive done between items, flaws were rarely pointed out and I often found a quick google gave a far better balanced and comparitive view of the products.

I also felt AVSA had fallen into the "Top Gear" trap what I mean by that is mainly reviewing top end, very expensive equipment, much as I liked reading about equipment I cant afford, occasionally, whats the point of the entire magazine full of the stuff I'll never even consider buying, barring a lotto win?

I never "hated" AVSA but the above is why I stoped buying it.

[Andrew]

Cool guys, this is helpful - keep it coming.

[Family_Dog]

Hey Doogle
+1
...and they don't need more pages (i.e. cost) they just need to use a font smaller than 16 Sanserrif

Please don't!! That's one of the reasons why I cancelled my Stereophile subscription... too much effort in trying to read the minute scawle. The ol' eyes ain't what they used to be!


-F_D

[Scrat]

A feature I thought would be cool....

Pick an average Joe Schmoe audiophile/enthusiast, go to his house, take some pics of his system, then improve it with some other components and see what the results are by listening tests. The product possibilities are endless. From cables, amps, bass traps, whatever. But use your own knowledge as product specialists to improvise. You would get 500 volunteers at the drop of a hat! This also serves to show the average consumer that it's not only about the premium high-end, but "regular" old components not costing the earth (relatively speaking of course  )

I agree that the format has become a bit monotonous, but that doesn't stop me from buying it every month  And I really enjoyed the group tests you had in previous issues.

There are sooooo many things you guys could do, without even copying other magazines out there, it just seems like you guys need some fresh ideas? Play with the stuff man!!!!!

[Andrew]

Thanks for the feedback guys, just one question about the complaint we often get about the positive reviews: Could you be more specific? I'm assuming you're saying that each review is too glowing, and there are no negative aspects to it whatsoever? Are you saying you'd rather see more negative observations made about the particular equipment on review?

[Andrew]

This was an observation emailed me to me:


I think especially these days people tend to put a lot of trust in a publication as it’s the only way they can get to “know” a product without actually auditioning it. Some suppliers will not audition an item. I know I tried to get a few places to demo the mede8ter and other media players for me but they did not want to open a box and show me how it actually plays. Thus my only recourse is to fall back to a publication or scour the internet which takes time and datapack. When time is lacking the first thing I do is shoot down to CNA or exclusive at lunch and take a quick skim through a few pubs and if I find one that’s a reasonable price (for me that’s under R50) with relevant reviews I might buy it and read it over the following weeks in between things like making dinner or usually “throne room time”.

Effectively then after dredging up all the pros and cons, finding out what the best is to reference it against I can then get some pricing and availability (often a problem which requires visiting many stores to find out if they stock that particular brand and item).


I guess your reviewers have to put themselves in the proverbial buyers place. A buyer like me is terrible. I tend to want the best item so I usually will start by getting a good idea of what is regarded as the best of its kind out there. Then I usually like to know “why is it the best?” so then I delve into the technical stuff to find what makes it bleep. Once I have established this the next task is to see how much it costs and what else comes close. The next step is to find out what makes these others bleep and whats different – like the different media processors and what they can and can’t do along with other factors – like the difference the embeded software and UI makes. This narrows the field to a few possible candidates then it’s a shootout to see how much is lacking between the leader and the cheaper other brands and if this difference is worth the law of  diminishing returns that always applies with high end stuff. Then it’s a case of what else can it do and what and how does it connect to my stuff. Comparisons and compromises then made it’s a case of price and availability and whether I can afford it.


In my case now I started out looking at the WDTV and ACER players, heard about mede8ter , found what else is out there , found what image processors are best, which use what, found Dune HD seems to be the best , QNAP NP1000 uses same processor but cost R5700 minus hard drive, Dune HD Smart is RR4000 minus hard drive. Mede8er is R3200 with hard drive but uses realtek processor which is not as good as sigma processors. Found WD TV live Hub with sigma processor going for R2300 with 1TB drive included- so its down to WD TV Live Hub vs Dune –HD Smart in functions and picture quality. Screen shots from www.digitalversus.com reveal that WD TV Live hub 8654 processor is very similar to 8642 in Dune just a little slower but ironically does some stuff the newer machine does not and its almost half the price inclusive of drive. Compared with mede8ter screenshot it seems slightly sharper and its cheaper so probably that will be the one I will get.


So if your guys followed a similar pattern on a supplied piece of gear then actually test it I could give a good solid backround from the rational point as well as the subjective values. It would be hard to fault then. Most of the guys I work with love to know whats under the hood and what its capable of before they will go buy something.

[Andrew]

Another:

The guys there should enjoy testing the stuff and writing. I would love to fiddle with AV gear half the day and put it through its paces as its fun to fiddle with all that gear. Those guys should enjoy doing it or its time to move on to a different paycheck elsewhere. They also need to have some penchant for creative writing so reviews do not come across as the same old rehash. For instance one of the things that always bugs me is the over use of certain words. One that springs to mind is the word “stunning”. The car pubs and property mags and adverts are always talking about “stunning” properties and I know for me its become rather tired reading about “stunning” things. I would love it if the writers doing these things would get a thesaurus and find some other really good words instead of “stunning” which has for me at least become lame because its been so overused.

I would like a bit more technical detail in the stuff as well as many people like me that read such stuff like the technical bits as that is our verification or foundation for looking at what the reviewer might say. I like to know for instance that a surround sound reciever could in fact drive my 4 ohm 86db/watt floorstanders without running out of steam and that maybe something like a Denon receiver does not like 4ohm speakers but a NAD will do fine, and so forth. Will this media player I am looking at prduce as good a sound as my DVD machine given the same quality movie played back on it (ISO image or folder copied from DVD vs the actual disc in a player – with no resampling to make its smaller etc).

[Rodney_gold]

I agree with ALL of the above , used to buy AVSA to support the local scene and see whats available , don't even bother these days as I see it as mainly advertorial.
Apart from which , I don't even often want to support the local retailers as they don't carry stock , are outrageously priced and often wont provide stuff for home audition - easier and a lot cheaper to import what you want or buy it used.
If I AM in the market for a TV , laptop, camera etc and want to buy locally , I will just google the item and get a much better set of reviews than AVSA can provide.
Sorry to be so negative , I would pay whatever you wanted if the mag had decent and a lot more  content , but whatever its going for now isn't worth it.

[Shonver]

I would pay whatever you wanted if the mag had decent and a lot more  content , but whatever its going for now isn't worth it.

I feel it is actually cheap enough that I don't mind buying it (I have an annual subscription). Right now, the main purpose is to learn what's out there locally.