Author Topic: Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly  (Read 1783 times)

KenMasters

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Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
« on: August 17, 2010, 08:26:35 am »
At this point I've watched about 20 hours of programming on my new set and have a good sense of it's capabilities. I'm aware that picture quality improves over the first 100-150 hours but I don't think improvements will be significant enough to alter opinions expressed here.

The Good:

The first thing that struck me is how spectacularly crisp this set is. Contrast is very good, bright whites and clearly defined blacks, with excellent detail all round and minimal PWM noise. In regards to the brightness of the whites and the noise supression I would say it trumps the Kuro.

Black levels are also very good, not quite the level of my old CRT (or the Kuro) but deep and stable ( I would however still recommend a backlight for night time viewing with the lights off).

Colour is also remarkable, appearing very natural, I'm especially happy with the presentation of red which so often comes across as overly saturated even once a set is properly calibrated. Here it always looks correct and never dominates an image.

DVDs come across a treat on this set too. It does a tremendous job of upscaling although I would recommend feeding it a 576p image from a player equiped with a decent deinterlacer as it has problems with cadence detection. Of course if you have a player, receiver or external processor with significant chops, compare the two first.

Lastly, important for gamers, input lag on this set is minimal. Compared to a CRT it is not noticeable in a tactile sense but you may pick it up in games like MW2 where you might find you tend to overshoot your target ever so slightly. This is not a problem as you should soon adjust. It is light years ahead of practically every other flat panel I've gamed on, certainly far better than the response time of the Kuro (a major deal breaker for me) or last year's range of Samsung PDPs.

The Bad:

There are some small negative points though. Worth mentioning but of no major concern.

One is that the menu is mildly annoying. By deselecting "Overscan" in the setup menu you can achieve 1:1 pixel mapping in the 16:9 aspect ratio. While this is great for BDs and gaming, regular broadcast programming (including satellite) needs a little overscan. But because the "Overscan" option is located in the Setup menu and not the Picture menu, it is a universal setting and so applies to all inputs, meaning it needs to be changed to the correct setting every time you switch inputs.

I have also come across the "floating blacks" phenomenon as mentioned in various overseas forums. In my opinion it's not a big problem. With all the viewing I have done I've only ever come across it once, watching "Have you heard about the Morgans" with my wife. In that movie there are two scenes, one when the couple goes outside to view the stars and another where they're having a conversation at night in their car. Both scenes are poorly shot and were obviously too dark, so consequently adjusted in post to bring out the detail, leading to washed out blacks and low overall contrast. Here the black level fluctuated. Interestingly though it does not appear to be employing any sort of dynamic contrast, it comes across more as though the set is idiling, struggling to hold onto that specific level of light output. I think the conditions to replicate this effect need to be quite exact. I don't see it being a big problem.

The other issue mentioned in reviews is colour banding. Now don't judge this by regular satellite programming, the low bitrates involved are responsible for the banding you see, not the set. Viewing BD material though, you can make out some colour banding, if you really hunt for it, but it is definitely not an issue. In fact, and I don't think I'm being overly optomisitc here, I wonder if it's an issue at all. This set is so crisp, the level of noise so low, I wonder if it's not simply a natural side effect of employing such minimal dithering. Personally I'd pick the level of clarity on display here over increased noise any day.

The Ugly:

Okay, now these are two issues I find relatively serious. Now to preface, I'm accustomed to CRT technology so perhaps I'm being unfair to hold this set to the same standards in terms of motion but seeing as how this is supposed to be a PDP's strength, I don't think it's unwarranted. I will also say, based on what I've found here, these are not issues that will be sorted out by next year's panels, or the year after that. These issues I believe are inherent weaknesses of the tech and are apparent on all PDPs to various degrees.

The first issue is that during fast pans you can pick up flashes of colour as the phosphors decay unevenly. It can be quite distracting, and before you point to the faster phosphors of the VT20, I see them there too. Not having compared the same content on either panel side by side I would have to trust Panasonic that this phenomenon is reduced on the VT20 but viewed in isolation, it seems equally bad to me. Now granted, when watching a film or playing a game, after a time I don't even notice it anymore. I'm sure I'll get used to it in time and I won't even register it to start. Still, it is a distraction and one that I wish didn't need getting used to in the first place.

The other issue I believe is created by the Sub-Field Drive. Now I'm aware that the drive is the reason for it's spectacular image performance in the first place but is has problems dealing with fast motion. On very fast pans it doesn't appear that the drive has the time needed to render images correctly. Instead images break up and are ill defined. A person's face for instance, instead of being flesh toned and finely gradiated with be a collection of green and magenta blotches. Not very appealing. It only takes a split second for the drive to catch up to the scene but during the transition this unsightly posterisation occurs.

Now it's worth noting that my wife notices none of this and is absolutely enthralled by the images this set produces. I'm aware it's said that some people can view these phenomena and others not but personally I believe it's all about the trained vs the untrained eye. Either way, as mentioned before, I don't think these motion issues are unique to Panasonic and I do believe, when it comes to flat panels, you'll have to pick your poison for quite some time into the forseeable future.  

Overall, the spectacular image quality (at least during normal motion) easily bests my old HD-CRT in both clarity and accuracy and the large screen size really does add much to the viewing experience. I'll be interested to see what the future holds for display technology five years down the line, but for now I'm going to rest my weary review scouring, forum devouring eyes and enjoy my Panny.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 08:37:31 am by KenMasters »

SubliminalThought

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Re: Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2010, 10:05:30 am »
Thanks a ton for this review. I have my eye set on the V20 50" (albeit it not being the infinite black pro here in SA) but will only be able to take the plunge after the new year. Barring another set making its debut, it will definitely be the Panny 50".

KenMasters

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Re: Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2010, 10:58:30 am »
Thanks a ton for this review. I have my eye set on the V20 50" (albeit it not being the infinite black pro here in SA) but will only be able to take the plunge after the new year. Barring another set making its debut, it will definitely be the Panny 50".

Just thought I'd mention that the posterisation might actually have more to do with the broadcast signal than the TV because when I think about it, I only seem to notice it when watching cable. I'll keep an eye on it and update later. Might be some sort of wierd 50Hz thing too.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 11:01:41 am by KenMasters »

Robert_E

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Re: Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2010, 06:09:02 pm »
Nice review, thanks Ken

KenMasters

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Re: Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2010, 08:37:57 pm »
Just thought I'd mention that the posterisation might actually have more to do with the broadcast signal than the TV because when I think about it, I only seem to notice it when watching cable. I'll keep an eye on it and update later. Might be some sort of wierd 50Hz thing too.

I can confirm that it only seems to happen to lower bitrate programming over cable/satellite.

KenMasters

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Re: Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2010, 01:38:37 pm »
Just some setup tips for best picture quality with minimum fuss:

Picture:

- Use Professional or THX preset
- Drop colour down two points to 28 for closest to correct colour.
- Keep Sharpness 0
- Digital Cinema Colour: Off
- Eco Mode: Off
- P-NR: Off
- Under "Advanced Settings" set Gamma to 2.4 (Actually closer to a gamma of 2.2 than the "2.2" preset)

Setup > Other Settings:

- Intelligent Frame Creation: Off (creates noticeable artifacts and movements look unnatural at times. Smooth Film needs to be set to off while playing 24Hz content)
- Super Resolution: Off
- 16:9 Overscan: Should be deactivated when watching discs or gaming, activated for regular TV content

KenMasters

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Re: Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2010, 09:45:16 am »
Just an elaboration on the above post. Last posting on this subject, promise :D

Post 100hrs follow up:

I spent some time this week calibrating my set. I must say I am now very pleased indeed. Never having owned a plasma before I didn't give too much weight to claims of improvement over time but I have to say, it really does make quite a difference.

Now of course I'm not dimissing the fact that I've also become more used to these issues but there is no disputing that there truly is a noteable improvement, especially after calibration (the oversaturated colours and overly high contrast of the default THX and Pro settings are also to blame for exacerbating the problem).

I'm pleased to report the uneven phosphor issue has been reduced significantly and after proper calibration has disappeared almost entirely. The only place I can really pick it up now is on the Xbox dashboard if I quickly cycle through the green windows alongside "My Xbox" (a stress test pattern in it's own right) and even then it is really very minor and virtually unnoticeable.

Posterisation on low bitrate broadcast material has also noticeably improved (although that can probably be attributed more to the toned down calibrated settings).

Something else that has cropped up is the issue of image doubling. I had noticed it when playing RDR and originally attributed it to the uneven phosphors. I have since learned it's an artifact present on all flat panel displays, it's just more noticeable on the V20 due to it's clarity and high motion resolution. It's an issue that only affect 30fps games. The Xbox outputs graphics as 60fps, even if the game is running at 30fps. So each frame is doubled to fit into the HDTV spec of 60Hz. So when quickly panning you actually get a doubling up of images. Nothing to be done about that as it's simply the nature of the display technology.

Panasonic 50V20 Settings:

Here are the optimum settings as I have calibrated them with brief explanations as to my reasoning. I'm not going to post greyscale or CMS settings as these really need to be done using a meter and my settings will not accurately translate to anyone else's panel.

Picture:

- Professional 1 (Similar to THX but more configurable)
- Contrast: 32 (dropping contrast results in better overall colour and gamma tracking)
- Colour: 28 (only two clicks down for closest to correct colour)
- Brightness: 0
- Sharpness: 0
- Digital Cinema Colour: Off
- Eco Mode: Off
- P-NR: Off
- Under "Advanced Settings" set Gamma to 2.4 (closer to a gamma of 2.2 than the "2.2" preset [which results in a low gamma of 1.9])

Setup > Other Settings:

- Intelligent Frame Creation: Off (creates noticeable artifacts and movement looks unnatural at times. Smooth Film needs to be set to off while playing 24Hz content)
- Super Resolution: Off

Post Calibration Results:





I must say, I'm quite pleased to say my initial impression of red was spot on. Exceptionally accurate with a low Delta E of only 0.4.
Magenta doesn't quite want to play ball with the rest of the fellows but it's under ten so by no means bad.

dotVIBE

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Re: Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2010, 10:37:41 am »
hey, no guy! keep em coming!
Town of the Cape

Macross

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Re: Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2010, 10:07:47 am »
Blood awesome review. wonder if these settings will work on mine.

KenMasters

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Re: Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2010, 10:26:33 am »
Blood awesome review. wonder if these settings will work on mine.

I'd imagine they would, if your set has the same menu settings. Nothing to lose trying them out.

Please let me know if they work out for you.

Macross

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Re: Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2010, 11:56:44 am »
I'd imagine they would, if your set has the same menu settings. Nothing to lose trying them out.

Please let me know if they work out for you.

Im going to. I have a guy from take2, who has the same TV as i do, settings on Professional 1. I still find Cinema settings quite agreeable though.
I'm gonna try yours on Professional 2.

Here's the settings I tried initially: (Still wasnt very vibrant and looked dull)

Contrast   36
Brightness:   0
Colour:   30
Sharpness:   0
Vivid Color:   Off
Eco mode   On/Off
Intelligent Frame Creation   Off
P-NR   Off
Gamma   2.2
• R-Gain:   -1
• G-Gain:   -1
• B-Gain:   +6
• R-Cutoff:   0
• G-Cutoff:   0
• B-Cutoff:   +1


KenMasters

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Re: Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2010, 12:59:58 pm »
... wasnt very vibrant and looked dull.

You might be disappointed then, with the colour and contrast both reduced, as per my settings, it will be even less vibrant. Something a lot of people don't realise is that a properly calibrated TV does look dull compared to the way people are used to viewing their TVs.

The point of having the set accurately calibrated is not to make it "pop" but rather to display accurately what the source is supposed to look like, without adding or subtracting anything.

If you prefer more pop in your images, try setting gamma to s-curve. It will crush blacks and whites on both ends of the scale but it will give you a much more contrasted image.

Macross

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Re: Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2010, 02:25:27 pm »
The point of having the set accurately calibrated is not to make it "pop" but rather to display accurately what the source is supposed to look like, without adding or subtracting anything.

So that's the reason. I kept thinking why, after all that calibration, it would look like that. I tried for a while to accept the picture, but it wasnt doing anything for me. I'll try looking at it again with that fact in mind tonight.

Macross

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Re: Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2010, 08:11:31 am »
@Ken
I tried your settings and I must say I was surprised. Much better than the previous settings i had on "professional 1".
Not as drained of colour as the previous setting.

BTW did you do any adjustments on RGB gains?

KenMasters

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Re: Panasonic V20: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2010, 08:28:31 am »
@Ken
I tried your settings and I must say I was surprised. Much better than the previous settings i had on "professional 1".
Not as drained of colour as the previous setting.

BTW did you do any adjustments on RGB gains?

Cool, glad to hear it. I would imagine it was the 2.2 gamma setting that was the main cause. The low gamma lacks contrast resulting in the image looking a little washed out.

Yip, I adjusted the greyscale as well as the colour hue and saturation. I'm not sure if they'll translate accurately for you though. The adjustments are very fine and I would imagine they'd be different from set to set. I can post them if you'd like.

One last suggestion for the settings though, seeing as how I couldn't edit my previous post I just left it because it was a minor adjustment, but brightness should be put up by one more click, so from 0 to +1. It shifts the gamma up slightly but you'll gain full lower black detail. Previous setting of 0 crushed black slightly.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 08:55:10 am by KenMasters »