New Toy: Technices SL-210

[Ch@pS]

So after finding a box of old records in my garage, I was looking for a start up record player to tide me by. Placebo on the forums was generous enough to offer me his backup table to lend, when I ended up in hospital for a few days, effectively putting everything on ice.

However... as a get well present, my girlfriend dad gave me his fathers old Technics SL-210.





The problems with it are/were:

No lid, it broke yaers ago apparently. No biggie.
The belt disintegrated when you touched it.

So no problem, got a replacement belt from the AV store in Cresta(forget the name of the place) for R40, fits like a charm.

Now everything works, and all is well.

Linked it up to my NAD T741 but it's extremely soft even at max volume, looks like I'm in need of a pre amp or a very clever way of getting around this.

All in all records sound great to my uneducated ears, although you struggle to hear everything at the volume it plays, so wont ruin the experience now until I can truly enjoy it.

Any comments? Decent table and cartridge to start off with?

[Hi-Phibian]

Surprised it is listenable at all.... You need a phono stage/phono pre amp / RIAA pre amp.
They range from a few hundred bucks to many thousands. The cheapest one I have found to be OK is the Behringer unit. Stay away from digitech.
Then there is the NAD pp2 for around R800 I think and then there are many more above that from Project, Cambridge Audio and the Edwards Audio MM1 I import.

[frikkie]

That's a nice table, with a quite capable cartridge.

I've still got lots of cassettes with recordings made (in the '80s) from a table exactly that like that one, and even listening to those old cassettes today, the resolution of that turntable/cartridge combination is surprising.

Nice one!

[Ampdog]

Ch@ps,

Sorry to hear about your hospitalisation. Hope things are looking up for you.

That is a mighty good-looking record player! It might perhaps require cleaning, also the bearings/bushes and such - no big job. Then, as Hi-Phibian said. (Just do not be lured into spending thousands on a so-called 'better' record pre-amplifier. They very quickly get 'boutique' and you pay for the reputation and such. Ask me; I grew up in 'the era'!) If you are in Pretoria/Joburg area, perhaps we can talk sometime.

[witblits]

I've got the SL-D3 the predecessor to yours and a direct drive but it is basically the same unit. I cleaned it up had some help setting it up correctly and fitted a Sumiko pearl cartridge and it sound real good. Enjoy the LP's and welcome to the vinyl thing

[Ch@pS]

@ Hi-Phibian - Thanks for the advice, will have a look at getting a Phono pre amp. It's only listenable if I push the 741's volume up to +8db, not keen on running things like that for too long so will wait until I have the gear I need.

@ Frikkie - Thanks! Can't wait to have a listen to this at proper levels, glad I dont have a total waste here.

@ Ampdog - Things are looking up so far, thanks! I'll have a look at the insides today and see how much dust is lying around. I'm in JHB, I'd love some of your advice in this regard, always best to ehar if from someone who grew up at the time.

@ witblits - I'm enjoying Vinyl already and I haven't even gotten into it properly yet, I'm sure I'll love it.

[Ch@pS]

Ok, so I think I've pretty smart, tell me what you guys think.

I had a thought, if I couldn't afford a decent pre amp(or find a cheap one for that matter) I'd just use a regular amp with my AVR, well sort of.

A while back we bought an el cheapo Sansui Combo consisting of 1 x active sub, with inputs for 5 satellite speakers. This took 6 RCAs for Front(L/R) Rear(L/R) and Sub/Center and came with 5 of the most terrible sattelites I have ever had the displeasure of listening too. It's totally cheap crap that set us back R500 from Hifi corp, it was meant for my parents bedroom. Long story short, it's been in the cupboard for a few years.

Ok, so I thought, what If I connected the front channel pre out from my NAD to the front channels of the sansui combo. Result was soft sound playing through the 741 speakers as well as the Sansui speakers.
Next I tried connecting the turntable to Video 4's audio in, and the Sansui to Video 4's audio out. Result was only soft sound coming out of the 741's speakers.

Then I decided, connect the Turntable to the Sansui. chop an RCA cable, connect the unterminated ends to the Sansui's speaker outs, and the terminated RCA ends to the 741. Success! Much higher levels of sound, although it sounded terrible.

So I decided to work the other way around. Turntable to NAD T741 Video 4, then a 6.5mm connector into the phones out of the 741. Then a 3.5mm to RCA from the 6.5mm connector to the Sansui.

Success! Decent sounding audio at listenable levels!

I expected the music quality to be more of the same, only a tad worse. NOT SO! It's totally different. Comparing Gerry Rafferty's Baker Street on CD to the Vinyl counterpart sounds very diferent! The Vinyl is lacking on bass, but sounds more neutral, less processed. It's very different and I find myself enjoying the experience.

All in all I'm still on the prowle for a cheap second hand Pre amp(or a simple two channel AMP with a phono stage) but the above will tide me over for now.

I'm a happy chappy. 

[frikkie]

Ok, so I think I've pretty smart, tell me what you guys think.

I had a thought, if I couldn't afford a decent pre amp(or find a cheap one for that matter) I'd just use a regular amp with my AVR, well sort of.

A while back we bought an el cheapo Sansui Combo consisting of 1 x active sub, with inputs for 5 satellite speakers. This took 6 RCAs for Front(L/R) Rear(L/R) and Sub/Center and came with 5 of the most terrible sattelites I have ever had the displeasure of listening too. It's totally cheap crap that set us back R500 from Hifi corp, it was meant for my parents bedroom. Long story short, it's been in the cupboard for a few years.

Ok, so I thought, what If I connected the front channel pre out from my NAD to the front channels of the sansui combo. Result was soft sound playing through the 741 speakers as well as the Sansui speakers.
Next I tried connecting the turntable to Video 4's audio in, and the Sansui to Video 4's audio out. Result was only soft sound coming out of the 741's speakers.

Then I decided, connect the Turntable to the Sansui. chop an RCA cable, connect the unterminated ends to the Sansui's speaker outs, and the terminated RCA ends to the 741. Success! Much higher levels of sound, although it sounded terrible.

So I decided to work the other way around. Turntable to NAD T741 Video 4, then a 6.5mm connector into the phones out of the 741. Then a 3.5mm to RCA from the 6.5mm connector to the Sansui.

Success! Decent sounding audio at listenable levels!

I expected the music quality to be more of the same, only a tad worse. NOT SO! It's totally different. Comparing Gerry Rafferty's Baker Street on CD to the Vinyl counterpart sounds very diferent! The Vinyl is lacking on bass, but sounds more neutral, less processed. It's very different and I find myself enjoying the experience.

All in all I'm still on the prowle for a cheap second hand Pre amp(or a simple two channel AMP with a phono stage) but the above will tide me over for now.

I'm a happy chappy. 

Eish. Crude but effective!

The reason why the vinyl is sounding "lacking on bass, but sounds more neutral" is because you are still running the TT through a straight, normal RCA input.

Phono inputs have got RIAA equalisation curves applied to them - this is a standard that all phone pre-amps employ, and was designed to even out vinyl response from your typical phono cartridge.

You really need to find yourself a phone pre-amp. Even any old integrated amp will do better than what you have now - plug the TT into phone, and use the REC OUT outputs into a normal Aux/CD input on your AVR. It WILL sound a lot better than it is now.

The problem with listening to vinyl without RIAA equalisation, I've found, is that the sounds becomes tiring very quickly, due to over-exaggerated midrange. That could well spoil your vinyl experience well before you've heard what that table can really do...

[naughty]

All in all I'm still on the prowle for a cheap second hand Pre amp(or a simple two channel AMP with a phono stage) but the above will tide me over for now.

define cheap - cos depending on what you call cheap i might have a solution ie a brand new stereo integrated amp with a phono stage which plays around 45 watts x 2 at 8ohms (because its brand new it will have warranties for a year)

granted it wont make your turntable sound like a Linn Sondek running off a Krell pro/power combo but it should sound a sight better than how you have it now

[alternativeroute]

the curve.......

At the moment you are listening to the inverse of that curve...

Here is a real cheepy... Will work though... Keep in mind you will still need a wall-wart for it...

http://www.fort777.co.za/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_48_64_65&products_id=7427

http://www.fort777.co.za/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=737_760_761&products_id=4190

[Ch@pS]

@ frikkie - Thanks for the info, it makes sense now as to why everything sounds neutral, almost flat. Will really look at getting a phono preamp, it really looks like a necesity here.

@ naughty - Cheap is like R500, I don't really want to put too much cash into this as I'm saving up for a whole host of other things and since i got the TT for free I'd like to keep costs way down. I'm sure the Stereo integrated AMP you're talking about is a realy bargain, but probably 100% chance out of my price range.

@ alternativeroute - Thanks, why am I listening to the inverse of that curve? Is that what a direct cartridge sounds like without a phono pream's equalisation? That Cheapie does look like a temping deal, the price is very right. What is the "wall-wart" you're talking about though?

[alternativeroute]

@ alternativeroute - Thanks, why am I listening to the inverse of that curve? Is that what a direct cartridge sounds like without a phono pream's equalisation? That Cheapie does look like a temping deal, the price is very right. What is the "wall-wart" you're talking about though?

A wall-wart is the transformer type thing you plug into a power socket... like a cellphone charger... It needs to put out 12v though to power the phono-preamp - check this link: http://www.fort777.co.za/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=737_760_761&products_id=4190

For a good explanation on RIAA check out this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization#The_RIAA_curve

Where are you based?

[Ch@pS]

Oh right, blonde moment sorry. I've got a few of those lying round here so that won't be a problem. I'm in Randburg(close to Lifestyle), JHB.

And thanks for the link, makes more sense to me now.

[naughty]

yeah - that stereo amp is around R1300 - and after getting discounts etc and then still spending to get ti posted to you it could probably be around R1300 to R1400 icluding the shipping

so the phono stages that alternativeroute suggests seem terrific - there seems to be a slightly better version for R215 linked there - thats what id get instead of the R150 one - you will still probably pay  for shipping too - but i suppose if the slightly more expensive one does more then its worth the extra - still way below your budget and you can use it with the Nad too so it could land up sounding very good

[alternativeroute]

or you could build your own...

• Basic board R45.00 - http://www.fort777.co.za/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=800_801_939&products_id=8077
• Transformer R135.00 - http://www.fort777.co.za/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3755
• Bridge Rectifier R3.00 - http://www.fort777.co.za/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3215
• Capacitors R11.50 - http://www.fort777.co.za/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2549
• Mini Regulator R25.00 - http://www.fort777.co.za/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=8051
• A case R68.00 - http://www.fort777.co.za/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=715_730_732&products_id=4028

Total (ex shipping): R287.50

Never tried it so I am not sure all is on the shopping list that needs to be on the shopping list...