Author Topic: Scans  (Read 18497 times)

Timber_MG

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Re: Scans
« Reply #270 on: June 30, 2010, 04:27:27 pm »
MDF is far less stiff than most wood species. If you want to laminate a curve, a heated press is the correct tool to use in combination with a suitable adhesive or a vacuum press. The mold needs to make provision for some of the tension releasing, meaning you make the mold to a tighter radius than the final part.

Just for interests sake, what would be a fair price for a floor standing MDF cab in a round shape?

JimGore

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Re: Scans
« Reply #271 on: June 30, 2010, 05:31:43 pm »
The easiest way to do this curved thing without worrying about sawing kerfs, and filling, and sanding, etc is to laminate.

Here are some pics of a build I did back in 2005 using 3mm MDF.  What's nice about this is the structural integrity of the MDF is not compromised.

Just go to your local hardware store and buy 2 SA Pine roof trusses, some M8 threaded rod, with nuts and penny washers, then mark them out and cut your clamps.  Use the clamps to laminate a minimum of 5 sheets of MDF to make the sides of your enclosure, then veneer or paint over them.  Minimal fuss.

Regards,
Ian.

JimGore

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Re: Scans
« Reply #272 on: June 30, 2010, 05:59:05 pm »
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How about making the internal braces with the curved sides. Then take 3mm mdf cut to size and wrap around the curved side of the braces, glue and screw down. let it dry and then add another 3mm MDF layer, screw & glue down.

laminate to appropriate thickness. would that work?
I tried this once.  The problem you face is that you will run out of places to put the screws after the 2nd or 3rd layer.  The other issue is that the screws apply pressure to only a small area of the work, thus your surface will not come out as smoothly curved as you want it to be.


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way I'm gonna do it (if I don't go the carbon fibre route) is to use 16mm MDF and have it kerfed and then to use 3mm veneered ply and stick it over the kerfed mdf
When you bend the plywood, it cannot contract on the inside of the arc, so the only other way for it to bend is to stretch the outer layer.  With your average veneer being about the thickness of 160gsm paper, this will most probably cause small splits and cracks in the veneer.


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There's also a product from a company in KZN - bendable-plywood-veneer-type sheets-stuff-3mm-thick that looks very promising, but I can't find any in CT area. Dunno if it's exactly the same as normal 3-ply??? Grrrrrrr!!!
I have some of this bending ply at home.  It is not very strong at all - I can tear a 5mm thick piece with my hands.  Unfortunately I am not convinced this has an application in speaker building other than to make a mold from.

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Carbon fibre can work, and is not too difficult to lay up, but the problem (as has been rightfully said before) is the cost.  You will need many, many, many layers before you even reach a thickness of 3mm.  What many people do is to make their part out of standard fibreglass, then add a single layer of carbon fibre to the outside.  This helps with the cost issue seeing as fibreglass is substantially cheaper than carbon fibre.

That being said, even if you used only fibreglass to make your enclosure, the cost will be prohibitive because of the thickness you require the sidewalls to be. 

Honeycomb and the like is an option that will give you the thickness and strength you need, but that will cause the cabinet to ring like a bell because the sidewalls will simply not have enough mass to damp the vibrations.  Yes, it could be filled with sand before the outer layer of composite is added on, but of course you are now playing with some very tricky, messy, and potentially unsuccessful ideas.

Stick to wood - it is the easiest , cheapest, and the fastest material you could use to make a cabinet out of.

Regards,
Ian.

dotVIBE

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Re: Scans
« Reply #273 on: June 30, 2010, 06:32:23 pm »
those look great. So the first step is to find someone in CT who will be able to cut the jig pieces for me.





hmmmm... 

I think I know someone who works at one of those joinery places where they make kitchens. score!
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Stefan

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Re: Scans
« Reply #274 on: June 30, 2010, 06:33:20 pm »

I have some of this bending ply at home.  It is not very strong at all - I can tear a 5mm thick piece with my hands.  Unfortunately I am not convinced this has an application in speaker building other than to make a mold from.



Thanx for the info.
I was only considering the bendyply stuff to use as an alternative to veneer to mask any lines/ridges from the bending of the kerfcutting. Also thought that plywood would only cause the outer ply to form cracks.

Where did you get that bendyply from and is it available in any wood type?
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JimGore

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Re: Scans
« Reply #275 on: June 30, 2010, 06:41:14 pm »
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So the first step is to find someone in CT who will be able to cut the jig pieces for me
I did mine with a jigsaw.  Use the first one as a stencil for the rest of them, then clamp them all together and sand any irregularities out. Not too difficult at all, I am sure you will manage.

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Where did you get that bendyply from and is it available in any wood type?
In JHB, in an area called "Industria" there is a company by the name of "Plaza board".  It only comes in one type of wood which is much like Okume, but with a much coarser grain.  They don't have veneered bending ply as far as I am aware.  Thickness from 3mm to 12mm.

Regards,
Ian.

Byrd

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Re: Scans
« Reply #276 on: June 30, 2010, 06:52:44 pm »
Jim

1. What thickness board were you using to laminate

2. How much springback did you get?

3. What is that last pic depicting?
Caution, whatever you read above, may, wonder of wonders, contain some level of jocularity.

chris

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Re: Scans
« Reply #277 on: June 30, 2010, 07:45:03 pm »
By the time the jig is built, the kerfing could have been done. ;) Oh and you don't loose any structure from kerfing and filling, the Mdf becomes rock hard and you also add a lot of mass.
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dotVIBE

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Re: Scans
« Reply #278 on: June 30, 2010, 08:04:46 pm »
How would you keep your panels 100% uniform if you went the kerf route?
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chris

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Re: Scans
« Reply #279 on: June 30, 2010, 08:41:16 pm »
Just use enough braces shaped in the form you want. But I say again the mdf must be cut as deep as possible, first do a offcut piece to get the depth, put it on the brace to see if it will follow the curve with out to much force. http://www.avforums.co.za/index.php/topic,826.60.html more or less how I've done it
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GearSlave

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Re: Scans
« Reply #280 on: June 30, 2010, 08:57:29 pm »
Thanks for the link Chris. I was too lazy to look for it.

@Ian, my idea for using Carbon Fibre will be for purely cosmetic reasons. It will be the "veneer" I use over my curved MDF enclosures. To use Carbon Fibre as a structural member would be insanely expensive and very impractical to DIY. Even my intended use of Carbon Fibre seems to get more silly by the day. We'll be doing some test pieces over the weekend to check the result.

dotVIBE

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Re: Scans
« Reply #281 on: June 30, 2010, 09:22:44 pm »
Just use enough braces shaped in the form you want. But I say again the mdf must be cut as deep as possible, first do a offcut piece to get the depth, put it on the brace to see if it will follow the curve with out to much force. http://www.avforums.co.za/index.php/topic,826.60.html more or less how I've done it

aah yes. you just strap them to the the internal braces. sometimes i am pretty stoopid.

also, you gotta wonder what's been happening with "the horns of Doom" project. been a while since the last update.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 09:28:50 pm by dotVIBE »
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JimGore

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Re: Scans
« Reply #282 on: June 30, 2010, 09:25:11 pm »
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By the time the jig is built, the kerfing could have been done.
That's true, it does take a bit of time, but the results are good, and it saves alot of time on sanding flat afterwards.  Who likes sanding anyway?

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What thickness board were you using to laminate
3mm MDF

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How much springback did you get?
Very little, because the glue between the layers of MDF hold the shape of the curve for you.

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What is that last pic depicting?
Some of the curved panels after I cleaned up the edges on the table saw.

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Carbon Fibre seems to get more silly by the day. We'll be doing some test pieces over the weekend to check the result
If you apply two layers of woven roving e-glass of about 160 gsm using standard polyester resin (mix black pigment into the resin) over your MDF.  After that has cured, sand smooth and flat with sandpaper.  After that, apply a single layer of carbon fibre cloth using Epolam 2020 or similar epoxy resin over the e-glass. After the carbon has been placed over the cabinet, use an old credit card and gently scrape all over to remove any trapped air bubbles. You should get some very good results.  Be aware that you will get a bit of uneven surface because you will not be laminating in a mold, so make sure to apply another couple of layers of epolam resin after the initial one has cured.  That will allow you to sand it back nice and smooth.

Regards,
Ian.

GearSlave

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Re: Scans
« Reply #283 on: June 30, 2010, 09:33:24 pm »
Geez Ian, thanks for that tip. You just a regular treasure trove of ideas and suggestions!!!!

+1million internetz for you sir ;)

Stefan

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Re: Scans
« Reply #284 on: July 03, 2010, 07:20:20 pm »
Ok, started today with an 'experimental' build. Kerf cut the sides. 16mm MDF, cut(3mm blade) to 14mm depth and spaced ~7mm apart. Works perfectly with no visible line/ridges! Actually fairly easy/quick. Almost 90% complete in about half a days work-just asembling left and hopefully no world cup interruptions!

Just some advice, when filling the grooves, would polyester resin (with glass fibre ontop) work? I've read that some epoxies expand quite a bit on curing causing the shape of the panel to distort.

Anyway, will take some kikkies and post 'em sometime or start a new thread if need be!
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