Author Topic: Grado SR325i or AKG K601  (Read 2886 times)

Pimpin'

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Grado SR325i or AKG K601
« on: October 29, 2009, 12:22:49 pm »
I am looking to upgrade my Grados the SR60i and am not sure which direction to take. I like the sound of the Grado SR60i but am not sure if the higher models will offer the sound I like. I have auditioned the cheeper AKG headphones and I liked them as well though I dont remember which model it was. I am not in the position to audition either the AKG K601 or the Grado 325i so that makes it difficult for me to decide. I have been told the Grado SR325i is a whole new ball game compared to the Grado SR60i but that doesn't help me much. What I need from the heaphone I am going to upgrade to is more information(better bass definition), air, openess, naturall (meaning somewhat accurate in the tone of the instruments) honest sounding headphone with very little to no sibilance and a razor sharp sound stage. I wont be using a headphone amp for a while until i have saved up enough for a decent one better that the one on my Rotel RC1070. i will also use the headphone on my iPod 80gig though that may not happen often, i'll stick to the Grado SR60i here it works perfectly on the ipod. I never watch movies with my headphones. I listen to all kinds of music from jazz to house, classical to hip hop, country to disco, funk to gospel, rock to kwaito just about anything you can think of. My music collection is made up of CDs and mp3 that are at 320kbps and higher, i dont have any SACDs. I have LPs but dont have a TT. I hope i've given enough info for ya'll to steer me in the right direction.
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gavinbirss

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Re: Grado SR325i or AKG K601
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2009, 01:45:35 pm »
For comfort rather try the AKG. The 601 will be Circumaural http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headphones#Circumaural (full sized) and the K240 MKII Supra-aural http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headphones#Supra-aural.

I have both K501 and K240 MKII. You may be happier with 240 but for comfort try 601. If you buy internationally you will be able to get K 701 for around $309 with approx $50 shipping.
Try headroom and gigasonic

http://www.gigasonic.com/AKG-K240-MKII.html
http://www.headphone.com/headphones/akg-k-701-white.php

Locally the K240 MKII is around R 3000.

ludo

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Re: Grado SR325i or AKG K601
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2009, 10:01:52 pm »
Hi Simphiwes

I'm afraid this is where things get totally subjective and everybody disagrees. But I'll give you my take on the matter. Whether you find yourself in agreement with any of it, is up to you.

First, off, I've never heard any Grado set, or most of the newer high end sets for that matter. Poverty does that ;D I've seen mention that the SR60 sounds very unlike others in the range. I've no idea.

Many moons ago, I went for the AKG K500 after testing everything I could lay my hands on at the time. The chief other contenders were Sennheiser, MBQuart and Beyer. I dragged a CDP and headphone amp all over the place to go listen.

My conclusions at the time were:

Beyerdynamic can shatter glass. Szzibilant as all hell at the slightest provocation. The big bottom end doesn't help.

MBQuart is big and fat and comfy sounding. A "Who cares about detail anyway? Life is about rock-and-roll!" kind of vibe. Almost like a Shure product. (Can work surprisingly well for classical recordings.) There was one lemon high up in the range that was plain terrible. Weak and confused and bloated, all together.

Sennheiser is too polite, in too dishonest a way. They've always given me the feeling of having eaten too much chocolate cake with cherry liqeur and slumping in the back of a big wavey Merc, being driven through an overcast forest landscape with the heater on. Safe, but stuffy, slightly car-sick and in a haze. I'm too much of a boer for those.

The AKGs remain my weapon of choice. They have a light bottom end. Their midrange is papery, the cheaper ones more so. Top is airy. On the whole, think dry wood. But more like Pine than Teak. Perhaps like a seriously well-aged fiddle, if one is feeling complimentary.

So ludo just doesn't like headphones, you'd say. Not so. I like my cans more than most things. I could never afford speakers that give me the same detail, so that I can curse the producers about how they did the compression and overmodulated the tape, and sit in awe about how differently people can approach a piano. But the sonic differences between different types of headphones are so large, that I feel the science is still in it's infancy. So that's also why I'm being so free with the blanket-damnations and generalisations above.

Strangely, the sonic "family character" also applies to microphones made by the same companies. Usually, one just has to use whatever is available, and they all work fine. But they have character. As the price goes up, the detail usually gets better, but the character remains. I'd even go so far as to say the character of the mics has as much influence as the acoustics of the venue. Every time, for music, I prefer the AKG. Faults and all.

I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a fan of the Austrian way (AKG). Too much idiotic design in the mechanical bits for one thing. Maybe I'm a bit more rough on tires than most, but things should last for 30 years without application of epoxy and cable ties, intermittent connections etc. Still like them though.

You should find a pair of whichever you consider, to listen to before buying, even if you have to move heaven and earth. Take your CD player & pre, even your iPod along and give it a spin. With higher impedance cans (say 100 Ohm or more), just don't expect the iPod to go terribly loud, but you'll get an idea of how things are.

When you improve sources and add nice headphone amps, things change for the better, but one never gets completely rid of the character of the cans. You just have to pick the pair that doesn't depress you.

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Telephono

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Re: Grado SR325i or AKG K601
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2009, 09:02:18 am »
Jeez, Ludo...

Quite a description. You've totally made me want to go out and try some 'phones  ;D. Great reply!
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Prince

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Re: Grado SR325i or AKG K601
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2009, 09:27:33 am »
 8)

--sorry for the hijack--
I'm in the same boat - do I buy a "cheap" pair of senheisers or buy higher up or a different brand. And the main problem is where do I demo these cans??
-there are only a few places in Cape Town that I know of and I prefer to demo, if I'm gonna spend anything above R1.5K for cans. The other factor is of course also I do not have a headphone amp, so now it even becomes more tricky, cause each "stereo amp" has its own characteristics. I'd hate to do what ludo did, brag my cheap Arcam Alpha all over the place!!

 ;D

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Viagara

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Re: Grado SR325i or AKG K601
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2009, 11:41:54 am »
I don't own a set of top headphones, but even with my measly Senn 515s I have found the HP output of the majority(if not all) Integrateds made them sound very dull. Okay when I initially tried the HPs on the NAD 320BEE I had at the time, I was quite impressed, but after hearing what they sound like using my Nuforce Mobile headphone amp, I could NEVER go back to using them with an Integrated.

Demoing HP's is off course quite a schlep and the only way you may accomplish that would be to cart your source with you. Some of the guys at Sound & Cinema(Claremont) have no problem taking a set out of its packing and letting you try it out using your own source.

Prince in your price range I would recommend the Senn 515s or perhaps the 555s, but don't expect to be blown away if you connect it to your Arcam as you will only realise the capabilities of your chosen headphones once you start using a dedicated HP amp.
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Prince

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Re: Grado SR325i or AKG K601
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2009, 12:12:03 pm »
I don't own a set of top headphones, but even with my measly Senn 515s I have found the HP output of the majority(if not all) Integrateds made them sound very dull. Okay when I initially tried the HPs on the NAD 320BEE I had at the time, I was quite impressed, but after hearing what they sound like using my Nuforce Mobile headphone amp, I could NEVER go back to using them with an Integrated.

Demoing HP's is off course quite a schlep and the only way you may accomplish that would be to cart your source with you. Some of the guys at Sound & Cinema(Claremont) have no problem taking a set out of its packing and letting you try it out using your own source.

Prince in your price range I would recommend the Senn 515s or perhaps the 555s, but don't expect to be blown away if you connect it to your Arcam as you will only realise the capabilities of your chosen headphones once you start using a dedicated HP amp.

That I do know. The gains or headroom without the headphone amp will not be impressive, but thanx for the advice. Maybe I should downscale my Senn purchase & buy the Nuforce HP..

:)
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Pimpin'

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Re: Grado SR325i or AKG K601
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2009, 02:24:11 pm »
Ludo......................eishhhhh. Your writting man. Your descriptions are out of this world yet very vivid and leave very little to be confused about (you should write a book). 8) I guess then I cant make any assumption about how i "visualise" the rest of the Grado range will sound like (based on my experience with the SR60i), in particular the SR325i. I fully agree with you when it come to the sound characteristic of AKG's cheaper HP models but l like that character somewhat though i dont think i'd be able to live with it. I also own a pair of Senn HD 202 and feel about it the same way i feel about the rest of the Senn series the performance is okay nothing spectacular(for my ears that is) maybe I needed a headphone amp for them but i doubt that would have made much of a difference. I have tried the Senn HD 595 to be somewhat fair, i got a different version of the music not necessarily better, to my ears i get more detail from my Grado SR60i (people caughing in the back round, the sound of the keys when an artist is playing on a fender). The kind of detail that makes you "think" you arent missing a thing in regards to what happened on the day of the recording ???. For some people backround noise like people talking in the backround or the artist tapping his or her feet while playing the keyboard or the artist breating before he sings may be destracting for some but i like that :). For me it gives me the feeling of being there ;D, odd as it may sound. Bass isnt the most important thing to me, it should'nt be the main feature to a song but part of the bigger picture. Dont get me wrong i am in no way saying that i like music presented dry and thin, but i dont like bass for bass sake, it should be there for a reason.

I may looking into gavin's solution it seems to make economic sense. ;D.
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ludo

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Re: Grado SR325i or AKG K601
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2009, 07:06:06 pm »
Ja. I guess I do have a book in me too. And that's a fine place for it to stay!

Here's a snippet from Chapter 782 for you though. ;)

The economic sense part of Gavin's suggestion bugs me a bit. I'm in total agreement that it's sensible. But I have my theories about why it should not have been this way. The AKG agents were not ever particularly interested in moving AKG, it seemed to me. They had bigger fish to fry (Shure, I'd guess.) The AKG agency came their way with a lot of other things when Harmon Intl. decided to buy everything they see, almost like Vishay in semiconductors, or Nestlé in food/pharmageddon, and do things like in a modern business. With an eye to consolidation and that holy bottom line... Meantime these appointed agents had been pushing Shure for decades. It gets a bit like when a political party has been in power for decades then.

So you never saw a K601/701 in a retail outlet. Only Sennheiser at the same price level. No demo, no sale. Simple. No moving of the stock, no big orders, no discount. Equally simple. No AKG because nobody tried to sell any. No need ´cause maybe the SABC will come round and take another truck full of goodies some day, and all will be well and AKG will think their agents are good okes after all. Audiophiles mean nothing and are trouble. Only Sennheiser SA had better insight. They're everywhere. See http://www.sennheiser.co.za/distributors.php

Hopefully the new AKG agent has a brain. They're not entirely new to this. I have some doubts though. See www.connoisseur.co.za. Interesting eh? Not so much as a bloody phone number!

So maybe shoot a mail to dave (dot) gottlieb /AT/ connoisseur /dots!/ coza and ask him if he's ever heard of the product he now distributes and knows where one might at least try one out with the pure intention of BUYING IT? And whether perhaps our money is no good with him? He's the big boss and some underling should be handling retail queries, BUT WHO?

I mean I couldn't find the cat food I wanted, phoned the distributors, Mama Africa said what's your phone no. young man? The rep phoned back and told me there was a vet 800m from my place that kept it. All R50 worth. BTW if the cat won't eat it just take it back for a refund. There is no fish flavour but we're very confident...

I realise we're mostly a bit apprehensive about folk in the trade here. But if the secret of "where the AKGs are available for demo" can somehow be made public, it could just be beneficial to more of us.

Roy Davis has had the wonderful decency to put a price list on his site for all he supplies including Grado 325s at www.highendaudio.co.za. I'm sure if you mail him he'd be happy to help by referring you to the appropriate retailer that has at least heard of the product.

Then next step we all bug Gert for a DIY headphone amp. If he doesn't do it, I will, Then you'll all be sorry! ;D

If it 's going vrot, put it on the buffet ! - Fats

Pimpin'

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Re: Grado SR325i or AKG K601
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2009, 09:19:04 am »
I am just cracking up on this side of the world(Thanks Ludo). I thoroughly enjoy your reply, some sober minded advise at that too. But there is one thing I am not confused about, I am not buying any Sennheiser HP. I may have to speack to Roy Davis about the Grado 325i's after all (its my Christmas present to myself, the wife wouldnt buy me R3000+ HP), anyway I know in the case of something going horribly wrong I have support. The AKG route now seems a little shacky :-\ after all that insight.

Hey Ludo, Shoot me a PM so I can get your contact info for when i want to get a HP amp.
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ludo

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Re: Grado SR325i or AKG K601
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2009, 04:15:58 pm »
Nothing shaky really. I'm sure it was all very much above board and in order. The agents honour their warranty etc. They certainly had one of the more impressive service departments, which is good IF one ever needs it. It's not their fault if the client sits on his headphones :-\, and they would certainly have either repaired or just sourced the parts for one. It's just that the availability/price of the product to the public was not considered from the public/audiophile perspective. They were broadcast/ big PA /pro-audio people. Hopefully the new AKG agent does it sensibly. Maybe before Christmas.

I don't mean to sell anything. Not here. This is hobby space to my mind. I had a diY effort in mind. Where YOU build it. The good part then is that folk can decide how much they want to spend on the enclosure and do the "packaging" themselves. That's usually the most expensive part. Building the circuit is remarkably cheap and easy. Really. I've made some insinuations about doing something like that before, and have made a pair of cheap ones, but the performance is just OK. I want something that performs better but that's still very easy to do with very common parts, and just as cheap, and that one can almost make in the kitchen using soldering iron and a cheap multimeter. Nothing like Woo Audio etc, but good.

If it 's going vrot, put it on the buffet ! - Fats

Hi-Phibian

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Re: Grado SR325i or AKG K601
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2009, 08:20:18 am »
Speak to Dave, he is one of the absolute gentlemen in audio and an EE afaik.
My only worry about them and AKG is that they have had turbulent up down relationships with specialist dealers and then often end up shifting the stock through Dions and the Corp.

This means that yes, AKG will become visible in retail shops, not sure which, but ultimately, the top models will likely turn rare in the long run. So if the price is good, buy them soon.
At the same time, depending on when mssrs Wild and Marr lost AKG, they may have some stock to dump. Worth a try. Try speak to someone senior/middle.... (Darren rings a bell)

I guess the big problem facing most HP mnfs is they want a slice of Pod action and this is only really possible through distributors who sell to Musica/Dion/Makro/Look and Listen/Istore/incredible deception/the corp etc etc.

It really is a tough one if you have a product that covers audiopile and the masses.
Look at Monster, depending on the distributor at a given time, it is either only in specialsist shops or in the corp, hardly ever in both....
I uspect B&W moved on from its blobby pod speakers for the same reason.

slovo

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Re: Grado SR325i or AKG K601
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2009, 07:47:21 pm »
I can't speak to the AKG K601, but the Grado SR325i is an absolute gem, and a bargain at the price. I have used mine daily for about 6 months now, in conjunction with an Graham Slee Novo headphone amp and Cambridge Audio DacMagic. For the price, I cannot imagine much better. The Grado headphones are a little uncomfortable at first -- all the reviews pick up on this -- but after a few months they feel like a glove. The 325i's are a massive jump on the SR60i's.

gavinbirss

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Re: Grado SR325i or AKG K601
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2009, 08:59:43 am »
See graphs :


At headroom the Grado SR325i and AKG K 701 is similarly priced.
As subjective as headphone are and in most cases preference goes, different people will like different sounding headphones...

http://www.headphone.com



Hi-Phibian

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Re: Grado SR325i or AKG K601
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2009, 07:28:49 pm »
Looks like a "house sound" is visible in those graphs.... and quite opposing in the upper midband...