Speaker Kits

[Timber_MG]

It is difficult to make a call at this point. I am sure that many have open questions regards this kit. Perhaps when you demo Shonover or someone else could collect some data on multiple axes?

[decibel]

True! I'll post some feedback and data here after Saturday's meeting.

[Ampdog]

In accordance with the FORUM RULES (I suggest that some members realise that such exist and take time to read the same!!!) - I was not going to comment. For those who cannot read, it says that where such offers as the present are made, criticism and analyses (especially derogatory) are off limits.

But enough is enough.

A product is on offer, the designer took the trouble to consult with the forum owner and only then did he introduce it. No wild claims (as is so often the case), only a matter-of-fact offer.

I would suggest that those who are lavish with uninformed comments, take the trouble to work out the cost of components of most products in this line, compare that with the over-the-counter cost, and LEARN. A man has the right to charge for his time, work and ideas. One example of many, there is a commercial up-market valve power available for R90K odd, of which the components cost no more than 8% of that figure. And it is lauded beyond realism and sells.

I would respectfully request that moderators be on the lookout for the above kind of uninvited and unwarranted posts and promptly deal with the same in the prescribed manner.

 

[Viagara]

Amen Ampdog!

Its far too easy to say, "But I can make it cheaper!" Fine if you can, but you don't have to be derogatory about someone else's efforts.

I remember Ampdog telling me the cost of the components in his 100watt per channel valve amp and what he will sell it for and my initial reaction was also that there is a huge markup involved, but intellectual property, research and labour plays a big role in the price. If you were to build a set of speakers or amplifier or whatever, you never consider the time you have spent as having an actual monetory value.

[dotVIBE]

Checked the site out. These are pretty cool.

May I suggest:

Some Vinyl kits
A DIY subwoofer kit

[Telephono]

So? What did the speaks sound like, guys...? 

[decibel]

Many of the guys could not make it this Saturday to the get together, but this is what milesgopal had to say:

"...put his 2 way floorstanders through its paces and it coped well with  a wide array of music.the floorstanders are not fussy with regards to placement -  clear highs, deep bass. i think they can easily compete with commercially available products costing 2-3 times more.i like the idea that you can customise the finish and the assembly seems to require minimal tools and diy ability."

It was posted here: http://www.avforums.co.za/index.php/topic,3619.15.html

I'm hopefully having some more guys over this saturday. will keep everyone posted on the results as they come in.

[Vaughan]

Hi Decibel,

Congratulations on the new venture. I wish you the best of luck.

Regards,

[decibel]

@ dotVIBE

Tx! I'm planning a subwoofer kit in the near future. Will keep you all posted on developments. If this venture proves to be successful, I will surely expand to bring other offers to the table, such as veneer and vinyl kits if they prove popular enough.

@goneten

Thank you! Much appreciated 

[decibel]

Some feedback from this past Saturday:

I had 3 guys from the forum around. Thank you very much for taking the time out to review the kits! Would be appreciated if you could perhaps just post a few comments on your findings here  

What I have gathered form the experience is the following:

1. The floor standers should prove to be most popular and best value for money.
2. Low FQ response is very good, with tight and clean bass for a kit in this price range.
3. As feared, and probably the question on the minds of many, the tweeter struggles to deliver in high FQ definition, and does not do the yellow kevlar units any justice.

I was hoping that the response of the tweeter and the XO tweaking would be enough to deliver just above what is needed, but I have to agree with the guys who reviewed (with very good ears indeed!), that a new tweeter will be needed to match the good performance of the woofer, and should then make for a very good deal indeed.

So, I will be modeling a new XO with a new tweeter. I will post the availability of the update here soon with some FQ response graphs.

Thanks again to Miles, Rodney, Theo, and Ryan!

[Shonver]

Pity I could not make it this time (unlike last time when I could make, but lacked the address/directions).

It will likely be a toss-up between a higher-specced tweeter (that plays with lower distortion down to lower frequencies) and a more complex crossover (higher order). Both will add cost.

[decibel]

Since it will add some costs, I think going the better tweeter route is the one to do although, this might add additional XO components as well. At the end of the day I think it will just make for a much better product, which is really what we are looking for.

Extra XO components on the ID tweet is just not worth it. The high FQ still tends to roll-off quite early. Initially my ears thought it will be acceptable but, when physically compared side by side to a good commercial tweeter, the difference is quite clear.

So, I'm working on MKII of the kits then 

[Rodney_gold]

I and Theo were there and heard the speakers - bass was surprisingly good for what they are  , definitely needs a much better tweeter. It was somewhat difficult to audition em due to the tweeters performance , room and placement issues

Im not wanting to rain on anyones parade , but these are my thoughts

IMHO a better tweeter and a substantial price reduction of the kit would perhaps be  the recipe to success , I feel the unfinshed floorstanders at R3k , requiring a good R1-2k  to finish them to a good commercial veneered or paino gloss type standard pitch themselves into a VERY competitive segment of the market , most of which have recogniseable brand names and good finishes to em. The competiton is real tough here , one has to look at speakers in the R6-10k range and these kit speakers have to be at least equal or a lot better. The other issue is that kit speaker builders tend to be rather savvy ..zillions of plans on the internet of proven designs so the target market will be demanding an out and out bargain or at least finished panels to relieve em of the hassle of making their own cabinets.  If I were marketing these speakers , I would develop them fully and not sell em as a kit but rather as a finished item - problems with using the internet as a sales channel is that no one can audition em..but I do see on the website there is a money back policy if you dont like the sound..

You can return a speaker kit after 14 days of purchase for a full refund if you are not completely satisfied with the sound quality. Components must be in the original packaging and in the same condition you have received it. You must return the enclosures as well, even if these have been partly or completely assembled. You will be liable for shipping costs back to us.

If they are finished , this policy would be a lot easier for the mnfgr  to implement as they can be easily sold again as a slight price reduction ..Im not sure what you would do with a partially finished or assembled enclosures if you get em back and only sell kits.

Regards
Rodney

[dotVIBE]

Hmm, what are these speaks up against at the R4k mark? Wharfedale 10.6 maybe? Q. Acoustics 1030i? That's about it afaik. I haven't hear these kit speakers, and while I agree that finishing is important, if the SQ is noticeably better than that of the competition, i think decibel might have a winner on his hands.

I also think that having pre-cut vinyl or veneer packs as an option would go a long way towards selling these.

[decibel]

I'm still quite eager to resolve the current kits with a new tweeter and see how good I can make them sound for this price range. Although, we must remember that the aim really is to buy a kit that will give you the response of a system costing 1.5 to twice the amount commercially. Whether I can do it with the current woofer and new tweeter remains to be seen. But ...

... this brings me to think that the more niche up-market (as with this type of product) is probably where some more success could be at (and has always been in the back of my mind to do a up-market Deluxe Series version depending on the success of the current Cine Series). The average bloke can not afford a R15K set, but if you can make a kit for half that or less and get the same performance, WOW, now that's a bargain in my book at least!

It is difficult to reduce price on the current units and still make it worth all the effort, so maybe a deluxe version could prove better value for money using much better components.

Looking at some potential drivers and costs, I can surely see a kit for R6 - R7K that could easily match performance of a R15K commercial set.

With regards to finishing kits: Veneer is fragile to pack and transport, but vinyl is easier. And to be honest, both are easy to apply and readily available. I will for a start rather offer DIY guides in the future to show how it is done.

I will in future also consider pre-assembled sets and/or enclosures. All in due time and will need to happen when I have the necessary capital to implement many of the suggestions you guys have made.

Thanks for the replies and comments   keep them coming!