Author Topic: Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs  (Read 3457 times)

decibel

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Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs
« on: July 24, 2009, 07:04:38 pm »
Hi, a while back I have purchased a pair of Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speakers from PQSound, as well as a pair of 60W 25mm Silk Dome Tweeters.

These have no TS specs from the manufacturer and I had to use Speaker Workshop to generate them. I thought it useful to post these here for those that do not have the means to test drivers, but want to use these in a build. I have used Speaker Workshop quite successfully to test parameters and build speakers, so these should be fairly accurate specs.

Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Mid/Bass Driver:

Fs: 57.76 Hz
Vas: 10.89 liters
Qts: 0.543
Qms: 4.506
Qes: 0.618
Le: 0.657 mH
L1: 1.140 mH
R1: 15.980 Ohms
Re: 7.6 Ohms
Sd**2: 132 sq cm

I have not done a freq response test or determined optimal crossover freq for this driver yet.

------

PQSound 60W 25mm Silk Dome Tweeter:

Fs: 942 Hz
Re: 8.966 Ohms

On-Axis Freq Response:



From this we can see that the claimed freq response of 1.5 to 20 kHz is quite accurate if my measurements is anything to go by.

I have tried a crossover freq of 3500Hz for this tweeter, but it is not very happy there. 2500Hz will probably be better, or maybe even higher at 4000Hz?! This tweeter has the tendency to sound a bit harsh and tinny, but by replacing the foam under the silk dome with wool felt and a felt ring under the clip-out faceplate piece can help to get rid of some of this.

I hope there are some of you that will find this info useful. Enjoy!



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Shonver

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Re: Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2009, 03:21:33 am »
What roll-off rate did you choose for the tweeter crossover? I would say that 3.5kHz was probably a wise choice, but you must measure the drivers' response*. Likely you will find that the breakup region of the "kevlar" driver needs a good amount of suppression (this can cause the speaker top sound harsh if not done). I have not had good luck with generic tweeters, but can confirm good results from using the yellow-coned ID 6.5" drivers (better than a certain Dynaudio driver I once had).

Thanks for posting this. Perhaps it is time we publish a worked-out design for the ID drivers.

*Else you are wasting the potential of SpeakerWorkshop.
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DRNB

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Re: Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2009, 09:23:59 am »
One of my very first speaker designs I did myself was with some 6" Infinity drivers (not Infinity Dynamics), and I can't remember if I used the cheapish Sabas tweeter on it or a JBL titanium dome. I had no way to test frequency response at the time, and did the TS measurements with a tone generator, multimeter, and calculator. Used the Bullock on Boxes book as a guide. I opted for a 2nd order LR filter at 2500 Hz, and once again calculated with a calculator, used Zobel filter to make sure the Z is correct, and had little knowledge further to make sure the cutoff is at the right frequency. The project turned out quite good, and even today after noch more experience and exposure to better systems, they don't sound bad.
Though the Infinity drivers are good, they were actually quite cheap. My first design using better drivers was with the Seas P17REX, at 3 x the price, and although easy to work with and and good drivers, it took much more effort to get a sound out of them that I liked.

So yeah, sometimes these cheaper drivers can suprise us.
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Shonver

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Re: Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2009, 09:53:57 am »
at 3 x the price, and although easy to work with and and good drivers, it took much more effort to get a sound out of them that I liked.

So yeah, sometimes these cheaper drivers can suprise us.

Amen, brother!

Your experience parallels my own.
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decibel

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Re: Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2009, 11:18:39 am »
What roll-off rate did you choose for the tweeter crossover? I would say that 3.5kHz was probably a wise choice, but you must measure the drivers' response*. Likely you will find that the breakup region of the "kevlar" driver needs a good amount of suppression (this can cause the speaker top sound harsh if not done). I have not had good luck with generic tweeters, but can confirm good results from using the yellow-coned ID 6.5" drivers (better than a certain Dynaudio driver I once had).

Thanks for posting this. Perhaps it is time we publish a worked-out design for the ID drivers.

*Else you are wasting the potential of SpeakerWorkshop.

Yes, the response of the driver is crucial to make xo decisions. I've not had time to do this yet, and the tweeter was actually xo with a different driver at the time than the ID 6.5". But I would, in this case, have to say that the harsh sound was probably a combination of tweeter and driver cone breakup. When replaced with another slightly better quality tweeter at similar xo, the problem was solved. So I agree, some generic tweeters are questionable.
All in all, I it appears that the quality of the ID 6.5" driver is good, and has potential. I have started on a design with this driver some time ago, but you know how it goes, time has caught up with me, and further I have not come. The test box is standing in the corner and is in need of a good dusting before I continue with the build. I'll keep you posted if this goes anywhere soon...
Read the AVSA magazine review of the CF552-kit floor stander in the September 2010 issue. Please visit www.decibelaudio.co.za for more info.

DRNB

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Re: Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2009, 08:17:24 pm »
decibel, could you perhaps tell us what the settings was on SW. Sampling rate, and resolution. And what the gate time was. And what distance you had the mic?
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decibel

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Re: Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2009, 09:29:52 pm »
The gated on-axis response was performed at 1m distance with a Behringer ECM8000 mic.

Sample rate: 48000/sec
Sample Size: 131072
Freq: 200hz to 24kHz
Gated at: 58.513 : 63.783ms
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DRNB

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Re: Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2009, 11:36:08 pm »
Thanks decibel,

Your gated times seems very long  ???

The reason why I asked in the first place, is that my gated measurements doesn't seems that smooth. It usually hs some dips what seems to be room effect at around 3Khz, 7Khz etc.

Like this one:



Playing around, I usaully get it right, or if I'm really serious I measure outside. I was just curious how you measure.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2009, 11:40:31 pm by norval »
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decibel

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Re: Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2009, 01:52:19 am »
Your gated times seems very long  ???

Thats what I thought when looking at it the 1st time, but thats what SW is stating. I've done these measurements some time ago so my memory regarding the precise details escapes me.

...my gated measurements doesn't seems that smooth. It usually hs some dips what seems to be room effect at around 3Khz, 7Khz etc.

What I do remember however, is that it took me a good while to get the gated measurements right. My room at that stage was about 4 x 5 m, with one 5 m side open to another room which is double the size of the one I was measuring in. What I ended up doing was to use various pieces of foam, fabric, cushions and the like, to try and get my room to a point where the measurements seemed acceptable. My ceiling was also more than 3 m high, which helped I think.

...give me an anechoic chamber and I will probably lock myself in there for months, measuring whatever I can find  ;D !

The lack of proper speaker building environments can be frustrating, but I do believe that somehow this can contribute to systems that perhaps sound more realistic/pleasing having been developed in a real world environment, or for our specific room requirements.

SW is not perfect until you face the long and complicated learning curve, but is perhaps a good way of learning how to build good speakers if you are serious about it, not to mention just getting to grips with all the speaker lingo, concepts, etc. in the beginning.

At least it's free! and gives die-hards like us more moola to spend on good quality drivers which is so scarce in our country.

Read the AVSA magazine review of the CF552-kit floor stander in the September 2010 issue. Please visit www.decibelaudio.co.za for more info.

decibel

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Re: Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2009, 01:55:19 am »
...now if only I had the time...
Read the AVSA magazine review of the CF552-kit floor stander in the September 2010 issue. Please visit www.decibelaudio.co.za for more info.

Ampdog

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Re: Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2009, 01:20:49 am »
From this we can see that the claimed freq response of 1.5 to 20 kHz is quite accurate if my measurements is anything to go by.

I hope there are some of you that will find this info useful. Enjoy!

Such info is very useful. I would suggest that others with the necessary measuring equipment also share their results here.

Just one thing though: You state that the claimed response up to 20kHz is quite accurate. With response at 20kHz down 27dB??

Norval said:
Quote
...give me an anechoic chamber and I will probably lock myself in there for months, measuring whatever I can find!

Yes - and there is/was a perfectly good one standing idle at the CSIR - if the cockroaches have not by now carried away most of the fluff in the wedges ...

With what little testing I have done in the past, I found that outside on the lawn (especially before having been mowed!) makes for a good substitute provided there are no near walls. Tilting the loudspeaker axis slightly upward further helped. Not for fine tuning, but within a few dB of reality.
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decibel

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Re: Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2009, 02:44:13 am »
Just one thing though: You state that the claimed response up to 20kHz is quite accurate. With response at 20kHz down 27dB??

...well, except for that bit ;). Maybe another reason, as mentioned before, why this tweeter sounds a bit harsh at the top end, because there is no top end!
Well spotted Ampdog! I've not considered that before. All in all, I think this particular tweeter is very poor quality either way.

With what little testing I have done in the past, I found that outside on the lawn (especially before having been mowed!) makes for a good substitute provided there are no near walls. Tilting the loudspeaker axis slightly upward further helped. Not for fine tuning, but within a few dB of reality.

I've not tried to measure outdoors yet. My garden is the size of a shoebox! The lounge will have to do.
Read the AVSA magazine review of the CF552-kit floor stander in the September 2010 issue. Please visit www.decibelaudio.co.za for more info.

JacoP

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Re: Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2009, 12:50:43 pm »
Thanks decibel, this is great!

Any chance that you have done this on their 8" Kevlar yet?

Timber_MG

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Re: Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2009, 03:58:39 pm »
I have a few of their 6.5" yellow cones still lying around in storage...when I next have my measurement setup going, perhaps I should see whether they are any good.

Shonver

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Re: Infinity Dynamic 6.5" Kevlar 150W Speaker TS Specs
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2009, 04:09:36 pm »
I have a few of their 6.5" yellow cones still lying around in storage

I have a battered pair (wrinkled dust caps) lying in a cupboard, but they are not standard, as I have applied a coat of floor varnish.
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