New forum rules

[Shonver]

Forgive my forwardness, but I felt that a very important issue that needs to resolved is getting lost amongst other posts elsewhere, so I have pulled out what I think is an important issue and reposted it here. Mods, I don't want to take over your job. Probaly you can do a better job of splitting the thread than I have attempted here.

Alright, lets deal with this democratically. Please put forward nominations for:

a) person(s) to be temporarily banned from AVF
b) person(s) to be permanently banned from AVF
c) new global moderator(s) for AVF
d) new board moderator(s) for AVF
e) concrete rules to adopt in the moderation of AVF

I shall take all proposals and set up a poll where it will be decided.

While the undertone of the above may be sarcastic, I am perfectly serious. I will implement any decision that is supported by a consensus of forum members, including removing myself I do feel it's all just a storm in a teacup and people should know better about arguing on teh Interweb:

[Shonver]

To which I replied:

COUNTERPROPOSAL

I suggest we just work on policy/rules for the forum as a first priority, then flesh out responsibilities. As for (a) and (b), whatever persons may or may not deserve such action to be taken against them, we must concede that related actions happened (are happening) under very liberal, practically unmoderated conditions.

Once the new forum rules are baselined they can be applied fairly.

Can we agree to, as an interim measure, adopt the AVSA forum rules? Then, while we work out the new general rules, we at least have some guidelines in place.

I don't have anything against any of the existing moderators, and I don't believe that any mod action (right or wrong) should be judged in the prevailing conditions (thus giving both "civies" and mods a break until new rules are established).

My Zim$2,000,000

My objection to Kay's (a) and (b) is that you cannot act on rules that you hoped had been present: that would be unfair...

[GearSlave]

Shaun,

I fully agree with your ideas. I suggested elsewhere that we take action amongst ourselves now and get this sorted.

I suggest we agree on the rules and I'm perfectly happy with the AVSA rules. Let's all agree to make it official. NOW!

Then, as to the matter of enforcing it, we can put a vote out to everyone regarding the mods (with whom I'm personally happy with, while others may not) and get that resolved as well.

PLEASE PEOPLE, let's not kill this forum!!!!!!!!

[chipwelder]

Lemme try and add some things I think will help, feel free to comment, am thick skinned... fat too...
These are guidelines, as I dislike rules... I believe rules are needed when you are either selfish or in this case - cannot fathom the other person's viewpoint.

1. Thou shalt not disagree for the sake of disagreeing, or because you feel like P-ing someone off... Ja I know, but hell a bit of self-moderation is prolly a good thing... Previously we were a bit more amicable about this... but we might need to accomodate others

2. Rule of thumb, if you have to re-state what you said in earlier post, and especially going on to a third time... You should prolly for the sake of dignity quit while you still can. The person won't change his mind... rather invite him to an audiofest...
Case in point the audiophile snake-oil thread... at around page three - one might say bring your amp over let's see what she can do... Obviously there were very valuable technical comments too, would not want to chuck them out - one learns from it... but we went on for a looong while going nowhere - although I have to say it came to a conclusion, which a lot of others don't, but I got the impression it was more due to submission than conviction on the original posters part. I don't think anybody is going end up right about these things, but acknowledge the different view point before it goes out of control.

3. Stay on topic... OK I am bad with this - blame the ADD, but jeepers we mess up threads big time. Before you bugger up a thread, try and self split - like this one... just post a note in original thread: separate discussion going on here [link]

 

[AV]

PLEASE PEOPLE, let's not kill this forum!!!!!!!!

I agree, me for one have made many friends here and it will be a pity if we let such small sh!t ruin it.

I want to ask those that have left to come back and let us sort the forum out, there are a place for the comments of everyone here, even if we disagree, that's what make it interesting.  To loose the opinion / knowledge of one is a loss to all of us.  Let us rather use this as an opportunity to learn and make things better.

That said, I feel certain things were allowed for too long and that's the reason for this.  I feel that personal insults don't belong on a forum and should be deleted and dealt with immediately by the MODERATORS.  If the moderators handle these things quickly and with some diplomacy, no-one else will feel the need to lift their leg also.   If a member has a problem with someone or something, let him dicuss it privately with Kay or one of the mods and let them sort out the problem.

André

[Shonver]

Lemme try and add some things I think will help, feel free to comment, am thick skinned... fat too...
These are guidelines, as I dislike rules... I believe rules are needed when you are either selfish or in this case - cannot fathom the other person's viewpoint.

Just my take:

Rules is rules and shall be obeyed.
Guidelines are more user-friendly, and help one to obey the rules without realising it  .

I agree with the spirit of your post, and the idea of having guidelines. However, we must just ensure that the mods have something concrete (clearly delineated rules of engagement ) to fall back onto in the case of a dispute. Their moderation decisions/actions must not be based on personal interpretation, as far as is practically possible.

[chipwelder]

Is true... we could possibly not count on people being all grown up
I just don't like telling people what to do, will however share my opinion on their choice of coffee, knife, htib or music at will though... 

So how about we say: Guidelines for use... may be used as rules as the mod.s see fit 

I just feel that rules are going to make loopholes and interpretations, and the world would be such a nice place if everyone was like just nice to each other because they are like reflective and caring for all other people like even Mugabe hey...

Like Shooh-Wow, I need to stop wabbing and get to work...

[Ampdog]

I happened on this while I was WORKING and Chip's post was still warm (well, according to his pseudonym all his work is).

WHEN DO YOU GUYS W... sorry.

I agree with the above (see my last post under "Bored ..."). And Ikey should come back; most uncharacteristic of the guy to leave. Matie will go and see him.

Only:  Gert!!!! I don't lift my leg - would fall over and then everybody will get p...ed. But good analogy! ... as far as it goes, which hopefully isn't as far as the next guy's anatomy.

We need to have a gigantic braai (boeries and such) - only Shonver would not be able to come. But see; that is why I am going down to see him shortly. Now how is that for loyalty and commitment??

Shon - Get them guys together down south! We will drink (and talk a little) and feast (and talk a lot) and feast (and talk some more) and present our considered consensus (we will drink until such is reached) to Kay. And that other oak, who decided to leave in a moment of weakness .....

Good post. Now I need to go and WORK - don't just get my monthly pay automatically like you blokes ...

[chipwelder]

Hey! I just consult from home so have the luxury of looking at the www every now and again...

[Shonver]

We will drink (and talk a little) and feast (and talk a lot) and feast (and talk some more) and present our considered consensus (we will drink until such is reached) to Kay.

Now, if only everyone could learn to have such a methodical approach to problem solving, the world would be a much happier jollier place .

[Viagara]

Now, if only everyone could learn to have such a methodical approach to problem solving, the world would be a much happier jollier place .

Its the Cape Town way

[kay]

My objection to Kay's (a) and (b) is that you cannot act on rules that you hoped had been present: that would be unfair...

The rule is very simple - majority rules. Survivor style.

I like the suggestions guys, keep them coming. I think Shonver has done a good enough job of summarising the original points, no need to split off yet another new thread.

[Graham R]

I am stunned by the turn of events on this forum. I hope I can contribute in a positive way on the forum in the future. For now I don't want to soil the air with any more criticism. Enough of me. 

[Viagara]

Wow! Everything seemed to have spiralled a bit out of control

Kay, how would you feel if we put up a poll for members to make recommendations for moderators? You cannot do this job on your own and Greg(Skinnyfat for those who don't know) was of great help to you when he was around.

If you agree, you can either put the poll up yourself or else I can do it for you.

Cheers

Edit:

I will be contacting Anton(Cleansound) tomorrow to see if we can't sort this sillyness out in a mutually benefitting way

[kay]

As I said in my original post, please put forward nominations and we can have an election. Greg already has my vote