Author Topic: Does your tube amp run hot?  (Read 371 times)

Moog

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Does your tube amp run hot?
« on: February 04, 2012, 02:09:49 pm »
I am running a new tube amp and concerned about the amount of heat throughout the casework. This unit is quite hot and i am concerned that something may go bust . I also have two valve amps which also run hot, but not to the same extent as the new unit.

My question: is there any valve amp that does not run hot? Can the heat lead to component failure?
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LAV

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Re: Does your tube amp run hot?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2012, 02:40:58 pm »
By their very nature these guys will run hot, that is why you will mostly find that al other electronics are located in the chassis below the valve bases. Also, amps with smaller PA valves like EL84s will run cooler like something with more powerful EL34s or similar.
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alternativeroute

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Re: Does your tube amp run hot?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2012, 03:43:39 pm »
Hey Moog, what are you running now?


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Moog

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Re: Does your tube amp run hot?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2012, 05:47:48 pm »
Hey Moog, what are you running now?
I threw caution to the wind  last December and pulled the trigger (without auditioning first) on a Canadian based (Chinese designer) Musical Paradise MP-428 SET amp. The unit runs with one 300B for each channel with an option to use 2a3 as well. The designer recommends 60 hours run-in time and i was keen to listen to it after the run in period. I therefore left it on this morning and the unit is now running VERY hot! My concern that the little (8 wpc ) SET amp would not drive the Yamaha NS2000s (with a sensitivity of 90db/w/m) was dispelled because  the yamaha's 13 inch woofers seem to be responding well. Initial comparisons with a KT88 based push-pull integrated is that the SET is more fluid in the midrange and treble, but the KT88 based amp has stronger bass.

Will post my listening experiences later after the amp has been run-in.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 05:50:35 pm by Moog »
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Rudi

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Re: Does your tube amp run hot?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2012, 09:07:52 pm »
A 300B runs super hot, so do not fret

......" Initial comparisons with a KT88 based push-pull integrated is that the SET is more fluid in the midrange and treble, but the KT88 based amp has stronger bass.

Will post my listening experiences later after the amp has been run

 

If you had to combine your impressions you would be describing a pass f5

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Ampdog

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Re: Does your tube amp run hot?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2012, 04:10:01 am »
The maximum anode dissipation for the 300B is 36W (RCA sheet). The filament is rated as 5V at 1,2A. This is about the same as that for a KT88, thus the valve should run no hotter than a KT88 - anything more and it is overloaded (working out of spec). I have seen this happening and some clever Jack saying that it is OK, but for such an expensive valve I would certainly not risk premature failing. This is especially true for a directly heated valve.

Thus, Moog, to determine  whether it is in fact working within specs measurements would be needed. But the above should give you something relative to work with.

Regarding valve amplifiers in general, they should all really be well ventilated. It must also be kept in mind that maximum dissipation ratings are based on an ambient temperature of 25 deg. C.  If this is higher dissipation must be derated. And yes, heat is the enemy of components. Electrolytic capacitors' life is drastically shortened by excessive heat. Hot to the touch, the life is halved or worse. Other capacitors similarly; they can change value when consistently subjected to heat. Again the specs are valid with a reference of 25 deg C. My experience with some designs: the under-chassis temperature is closer to 40 deg.

and don't tell others I said, but I would not bother too much with pious 'running-in specs'. Valves often come pre 'run-in' from the factory - or used to, not sure about anything these days. My view is that any piece of electronic equipment which changes characteristics after more than an hour of operation should have the components examined; I think I have been around that scene for long enough to make that a considered statement. Not to re-start something here that has been discussed before, but it can be shown physiologically that 'accustoming' of hearing has more to do with perceived run-in changes than electronics. Thus don't leave it on overnight to make up a time figure; listen to it!. It will shorten adaptation time.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 04:33:24 am by Ampdog »
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GMaestro

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Re: Does your tube amp run hot?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2012, 08:52:54 pm »
I would agree with Ampdog here , you might be over- driving the amplifiers.

If I play with Quad ESL 57 Speakers which were designed for valve amps on a 15 Watt Valve amplifier for a few hours the temperature stays the same.

If I play with some AR3a Speakers on a 15 Watt valve amp for a few hours it becomes very hot. - in other words it is over driven.- Speakers are not sensitive enough and drives hard.

But I am no technical guy here , this was just my practical observation.


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Moog

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Re: Does your tube amp run hot?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2012, 03:28:51 pm »
This is the response i received from the manufacturer: It is normal for the amp to get hot. The casework is used as a heat sink for the voltage regulators inside.
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mahleu

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Re: Does your tube amp run hot?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2012, 03:35:50 pm »
My Leak runs much hotter with difficult speakers and cooler with more efficient ones. The transformers now stay cool, before they were untouchable.

The valves stay hot either way.
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Batman

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Re: Does your tube amp run hot?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2012, 03:53:31 pm »
My Leak runs much hotter with difficult speakers and cooler with more efficient ones. The transformers now stay cool, before they were untouchable.

The valves stay hot either way.

Same story with mine
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mahleu

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Re: Does your tube amp run hot?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2012, 04:19:38 pm »
Same story with mine

I'm working out a platform so I can heat up coffee on it.
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Batman

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Re: Does your tube amp run hot?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2012, 05:45:42 pm »
I'm working out a platform so I can heat up coffee on it.

Lol :P
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Moog

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Re: Does your tube amp run hot?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2012, 07:25:06 pm »
The maximum anode dissipation for the 300B is 36W (RCA sheet). The filament is rated as 5V at 1,2A. This is about the same as that for a KT88, thus the valve should run no hotter than a KT88[/size]
Ampdog, being a single ended amp instead of push-pull and therefore operating in  class a, is the amp not supposed to run hotter than a pp kt88-based amp, assuming all other variables are the same?
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Ampdog

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Re: Does your tube amp run hot?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2012, 10:45:34 pm »
Apology there, Moog. I did not visit here for a few days.

Yes. My first reply was to relate matters to familiar valves getting away from mere adjectives. But it depends of course on the design; does KT88s e.g. work under 35W dissipation in all designs? With SET all designs probably work up to maximum dissipation, in p.p. they might not.

Remember that class-A in itself does not mean having to run full dissipation, it only means that a valve never goes close to or into the G1-cut-off realm. But to get the maximum out of an amplifier most will rum close to maximum dissipation. One exception was the Quad II: The KT66s only worked at about 19W dissipation each because that was all that was required to get the 15W output goal.
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Ampdog

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Re: Does your tube amp run hot?
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2012, 11:00:56 pm »
Follow - punched the send button too soon,

An oops!

We were talking about output valves mostly. But then including the chassis itself, which you did indicate in the beginning. I too suffer from the indiscretion of using the chassis as a nice big heatsink. A designer should discount that against heating up components in his design. As said it is bad for components. Some of the nice small fans on the market these days could come to the rescue (does one get completely quiet ones - another topic). In my own case I soothed my conscience by mounting the chassis on four pillars about 15mm off the stand - then one has the bother of having to cover the underside with some sort of wire gauze or punched metal sheet.

This is a 'how much' thing. The hotter the chassis, the hotter the components, the shorter the life ..... At my age it is less of a factor than at yours!  :) :)
'Miracles' are not contrary to Nature - they are only contrary to our understanding of Nature