LF: surround speakers and/or advice

[gyrovague]

Hi

My current system, about 10 years old, is a Jazz Speakers J9931B ( http://jazzspeakers.english.eyp.com.tw/eyp/front/bin/ptdetail.phtml?Part=J9931B&Category=200011185 ) 5.1 DD/DTS system (audio receiver with speakers), with optical/co-ax digital inputs as well as some stereo analogue inputs. It has "only" 10W RMS per channel (x5) into 4ohm and 50W RMS for the subwoofer. To me, this cheap&nasty (I think I bought it for about R2000 10 years ago) system sounds pretty great (and volume is more than sufficient, I never use it close to max volume). I say this to highlight the fact that I'm obviously not an audiophile, and in fact I believe a certain amount of cognitive dissonance is involved when people claim the superiority of their tens-of-thousands-of-rands speaker systems (except maybe when it comes to superb reproduction at deafeningly loud volumes, which I'm not interested in anyway). (This comic comes to mind: http://xkcd.com/915/ )  I've never been particularly interested in AV systems either, so am not very knowledgeable about them, but I am an electronic engineer so I do probably have (most of?) the technical understanding of how they work and what all the specifications really mean etc.

So, that was all just background information, hopefully I haven't now alienated everybody here

I recently purchased a second hand Denon AVR-1803 receiver (6.1 system) for quite a bargain (R900) from a friend who is upgrading his system. To me the immediate benefits of this are all the extra inputs it supports, as well as the bonus feature of being able to switch between a number of video inputs, and support for a wider range of digital encodings (e.g. DTS-ES) than my current system.

The new receiver supports 80W RMS per channel (x6) into 8ohm, and so my existing speakers will not work…. so, I am now looking for a set of "reasonably good" speakers (2 front, 1 center, 2 surround, 1 (or 2 optionally, since it supports a bridged pair too) surround back, 1 active subwoofer (preferably able to reproduce under 80Hz sufficiently) ), either (cheap) new or preferably second hand (presumable better value for money?).

I found these: http://www.sony.co.za/product/sa-p55h
which I thought sounded fairly promising (costs R4100 currently), but when I googled for reviews, one of the first hits was a link to a thread on this very forum ( http://www.avforums.co.za/index.php?topic=7923.0 ) basically telling the guy to not bother with Sony and rather get something else. (That is actually how I became aware of this forum, and have thus now registered…) Keep in mind, as I said, that I am not an audiophile, I just want something which sounds reasonably good and doesn't have obviously noticeable distortion or other artifacts… My current system already sounds fantastic to me. My primary use is for movies (I use an Optoma HD20 1080p projector for the video, with a home-made screen), not music. Something like this ( http://www.avforums.co.za/index.php/topic,14165.0.html ) sounded like a good deal to me, but its sold already. These Infinity Dynamic ( http://www.pqsound.co.za/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=5_41 ) speakers sound reasonably priced to me also…

Thoughts/recommendations? Anybody selling something good-but-cheap ? Ideally I don't want to spend more than R4k total for all the speakers, to give an idea. (I'm sure this is going to evoke some knowing laughs from the purist audiophiles here…)

[cj]

wharfedale diamond 10.1 at R1.5K for a pair, add on a centre at i think 1k or 1.5k, it is a great starting little system that works a treat. it plays music pure and simple

[LAV]

Welcome to the forum! That Denon AVR you got is a good buy and an excellent step in the right direction.

Speakers: agreed - stay away from any of the speaker-related stuff offered by the large retailers, especially the "home theatre in a box" setups like the Sony example. Since you now have a decent AVR in that Denon, look at either some complete speaker packages from Polk, Jamo, Wharfedale, Monitor Audio, B&W, Mission, KEF etc. (initially maybe outside your stated max budget). Plan B is a speaker-by-speaker approach like CJ has said. Buy a pair of decent bookshelf-sized units from any of the brands mentioned. Add a centre speaker, add surrounds, add a decent sub.

This forum and www.avsa.co.za  are treasure troves of bargains, you'll often find great speakers on offer at good prices. Value would be far better than buying new.

As an example, there is a set of Wharfedale Diamond 10.6 on offer for R3k - really nice large floorstanders. These would make a brilliant start, then you've got R1.1k left for surrounds. I've also often seen centre speakers here for <R1k.

[gyrovague]

Thanks for advice so far!

I was browsing some local stores this morning (in George, so not exactly a huge selection available...), saw a Mission 5.1 "cinema pack":
2x MV-8e tower
MV-Ce center
2x MV-DSe surrounds
MS-8e subwoofer

on "special" for R7500.... Thoughts? Way above my initial thumbsuck budget... but they look pretty awesome...

[gyrovague]

This forum and www.avsa.co.za  are treasure troves of bargains, you'll often find great speakers on offer at good prices. Value would be far better than buying new.

Thanks for that link. I see the following on there, which sounds quite good?

WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10 HOME CINEMA PACKAGE

Wharfedale Diamond 10 Home Cinema package for sale. This system was used as a display model. It has never played and is still brand new. Consists of 4 units Diamond 10.0 front and rear speakers, 1 unit Diamond 10.CC centre speaker and 1 unit Diamond 10 MX-SUB subwoofer. The system is cherry in color. Retail Price: R7 500; selling for R5 000

[WaterHond]

Hi Gyro - both the Mission and Wharfedale packages are very good matches for your amp and will not disappoint - try and listen to as many options as you can but be aware that shop demo's can sound diferent from what it does at home!

[gyrovague]

Thanks, tbh I trust the advice here more than my own ears anyway, as I said I'm certainly not an audiophile, even my current cheap Taiwanese Jazz Speakers system sounds pretty good to me. I'm quite curious to see/hear whether I can detect the difference when I get the new speakers

An audiophile friend of mine (the guy who sold me the Denon) had me listen to two different sets of B&Ws he has, which both sound the same (and awesome) to me, and he claims the one clearly sounds as if its playing "through a blanket" and the other is "crisp" ... I could honestly not hear any difference. I guess some people just have far more refined hearing than others.

[gyrovague]

The same Mission speakers (as stated above, sold locally in brick&mortar store for R7500 on special), are R6200 online:
http://www.theaudiozone.co.za/product_info.php?products_id=2811
(presumably excluding shipping though...)

[Necrite]

I see that site also has a Cambridge Audio set for not a bad price http://www.theaudiozone.co.za/product_info.php?cPath=610&products_id=2770

[gyrovague]

From my reading of various reviews on the net, it sounds like the Mission speakers (referred to above) are better than the Wharfedale ones (referred to above)... but will cost me slightly more, though I'll then have brand new speakers vs. demo models, FWIW (makes no difference to me really, I'm sure even a 20yr old speaker can still be amazing as long as it doesn't have physical damage to the driver cones).

[WaterHond]

From my reading of various reviews on the net, it sounds like the Mission speakers (referred to above) are better than the Wharfedale ones (referred to above)... but will cost me slightly more, though I'll then have brand new speakers vs. demo models, FWIW (makes no difference to me really, I'm sure even a 20yr old speaker can still be amazing as long as it doesn't have physical damage to the driver cones).

The new Missions are rated highly and if you can afford them will be an excellent option - your ears will quickly start picking up the finer details that us Audiophools go gaga for!
Bought my sis a pair of the bookshelf sized Wharfedales a while ago from the previous model range (9 series) and I can tell you that they are also very good as you will have seen on the 'net.

[LAV]

That Wharfedale set for R5k is a good buy. Most of the packages do save you quite a bit on buying separately, but if you buy used, the savings are really much better.

Very few audio enthusiasts abuse their speakers, so if you go to listen to used speakers and they look good and sound good, chances of anything failing afterwards due to normal use are very slim. I have bought a demo pair of B&W 683, a used pair of B&W 685 and also a used pair of Wharfedale Diamond 10.1. (Latter two sets from forum members) All were and are in perfect order.

Depending on your room size, you might want to consider getting large(r) main speakers first and then adding on - that is why I would be keen on those Diamond 10.6 units on offer.

[thomtom]

Under the general topic above; surround speakers, where will Celestion speakers rate?

[Crafty]

Under the general topic above; surround speakers, where will Celestion speakers rate?

They were pretty neat little stereo speakers.
Which model do you want to use. Those older ones might be a bit bulky?

[thomtom]

A friend wants a smaller system, possible for me to buy, early days, will get more info, thanks crafty