E-tolling starts in February! Yay!

[mickyc]

Sorry Placebo, just to clarify, please note that my last sentence was made in a sarcastic tone. I really prefer option 1, but I am sure someone as knowledgable as you would have figured that out.

Mod's please delete any of my comments that you feel are offensive or inappropriate 

[Cowboy]

mickyc, I can't agree with tolling as a way of paying back the cost of building and maintaining the roads. If you think about how many cars pass through toll booths everyday on just the N3 between Jo'burg and Durban, and the costs of those tolls, it simply doesn't add up. There was something like 2000 cars an hour coming through the tolls in KZN this past Christmas. The last time I drove between the cities I was shocked at how much it cost. I think I gave up after I hit R300.

So assume that an average of 1000 cars an hour pass between those tolls over a period of a month (Dec/Jan) and each motorist is handing over R700 on a return trip, you're looking at R14.4 million collected in just one day. Over a 30 day month that grows to a figure bigger than my little calculator can display. Does the N3 require that much finance for maintenance in a year? I think not. I think your Gauteng figures will be significantly higher if this motorist rape continues.

Somebody is screwing the cat and getting away with it. If I lived in GP I sure as hell wouldn't pay. Feck that.

[placebo]

Sorry Placebo, just to clarify, please note that my last sentence was made in a sarcastic tone. I really prefer option 1, but I am sure someone as knowledgable as you would have figured that out.

Mod's please delete any of my comments that you feel are offensive or inappropriate

It takes one hell of a lot to offend me.However a massive lightning storm did that this afternoon.I do not refer to the tolling of National Roads but rather to the tolling of roads within an urban community where commuters have a choice of using roads where robots are incorrectly set or it takes the municipality 10 days to fix the robots out of order due to total lack of interest or incompetence causing massive loss in time wastage and loss of production.Therefore they now result to toll Highways as an easy way to screw more money out of the public.You forget it isn't just the cost of getting to work but the cost that will rise on all commodities as a result thereof which unfortunately  the people who are already on the breadline can no longer afford.Furthermore people tend to forget that we already subsidise road upgrades and "maintenance" in the price of our fuel costs.Why pay more than twice for something that we already pay for?

[Hi-Phibian]

I will gladly pay if all who use the roads are made to pay. It may just keep the riff raff off and that is worth paying for.

[Atjan]

Many big cities have plentiful toll roads, which simply means they who use, pay. Not a bad notion, actually. BUT.

Like Dallas pointed out, the 600km trip to Durban also costs the 50c/km that GP residents and road users will pay. Difference is, the 1000 cars per hour is not a 2 month thing, but an 11 month thing.

Now, what will happen to the cash? Apparently, the bulk of the cash will flow OUT the country to the company that provided the tech for the gantry /e-tag system. Weird that. Can we, as a developing country afford to send cash out of our borders for something that adds that little value to the economy? Surely, if the tech is worth that much, we  could develop our own? We have build an atom bomb, helicopters and satellites  before FFS!

It is crystal clear, for anyone with even a passing interest in the news and the general world around him that theres no rat. There's a dead dog that is stinking to high heaven.

Mickyc, I'm not sure if you're aware what the impact of the tolls will be on Joe Soap's personal finances. Lets say he lives in Pta and works in Germiston. Not a strange scenario in GP at all. Works out like that some times. No public transport is available for that route. Viable alternative routes does not exist, they're all tolled in any way. Joe is doing well compared the average person, takes home R10k. He will, on starting to pay for tolls, cough up R1k/ month. I wouldn't like 10% less. How about you?

Me, I'm lucky. I don't use any toll roads to work. Unfortunately I can see the traffic pressure will build up on my route due to people not being able to afford the tolls and hence using my route. Now, if the City would just fix that robot on Main Reef and Commando thats been off for 2  weeks.....

[Byrd]

Many big cities have plentiful toll roads, which simply means they who use, pay. Not a bad notion, actually. BUT.

Like Dallas pointed out, the 600km trip to Durban also costs the 50c/km that GP residents and road users will pay. Difference is, the 1000 cars per hour is not a 2 month thing, but an 11 month thing.

Now, what will happen to the cash? Apparently, the bulk of the cash will flow OUT the country to the company that provided the tech for the gantry /e-tag system. Weird that. Can we, as a developing country afford to send cash out of our borders for something that adds that little value to the economy? Surely, if the tech is worth that much, we  could develop our own? We have build an atom bomb, helicopters and satellites  before FFS!

It is crystal clear, for anyone with even a passing interest in the news and the general world around him that theres no rat. There's a dead dog that is stinking to high heaven.

Mickyc, I'm not sure if you're aware what the impact of the tolls will be on Joe Soap's personal finances. Lets say he lives in Pta and works in Germiston. Not a strange scenario in GP at all. Works out like that some times. No public transport is available for that route. Viable alternative routes does not exist, they're all tolled in any way. Joe is doing well compared the average person, takes home R10k. He will, on starting to pay for tolls, cough up R1k/ month. I wouldn't like 10% less. How about you?

Me, I'm lucky. I don't use any toll roads to work. Unfortunately I can see the traffic pressure will build up on my route due to people not being able to afford the tolls and hence using my route. Now, if the City would just fix that robot on Main Reef and Commando thats been off for 2  weeks.....

I am a consultant on occasion to the DOT in it's various forms and guises, as well as other state institutions and would tend to agree with this statement. The spend on the administration of these projects is enormous. Silly decisions get made, for example I recall that at one time the 3d barcode on your vehicle license was a  licensed technology. Therefore for each license that was printed / purchased a portion of the license fee was apportioned to the developer which in this case was at least a South African company, but none the less a real fat cat to the tune of a few hundred million rand a year.

The problem is not with paying for services, but having to pay for maladministration and incompetence. This is not a given, or at least not to the levels we see here. The Western cape and the rest of the country prove this. One example i can give you is the BRT systems of JHB and the CoCT. Look at the setup administrative overhead costs of those projects and look at where the projects now are.

[Cowboy]

What this country needs is a total economic revolution. It's time to stop the carousel, stand back and do a stock take of where our money is really going and then ruthlessly wield the axe where it is necessary. Unfortunately this will never happen because people are too damn easy to buy.

[placebo]

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Gauteng-tolls-move-a-significant-victory-20120113
And now for Gautengs next bright idea.Sorry Hi-Phibian the riff raff remains on the highways.At least for now.

[Cowboy]

Great news! This is how you beat the mofos. Just stand up and be heard loudly.

[mickyc]

Let me put it more simply.

For me, if the choice is vastly improved highways with the toll or deteriorating highways without the toll, I would go for the toll. That's all my point is.

Yes I am lucky, I can comfortably afford the cost for my daily 20km use. To me, the alternative, being to let the country's infrastructure deteriorate into the sad state of most African countries is just not an option.

The highway refurbishment has saved me 10-15minutes out of my 45 minute commute each way(and who knows how much in fuel). That, I will gladly pay for.

[Atjan]

/\ Like I said, I'm not apposed to tolling and paying on a per use basis. I am apposed to government forcing unreasonable costs onto the economy for infrastructure that should in the first place have been financed from the already massive taxes we are subjected to. I would say between 5c and 10c /km is a more reasonable tarrif.

Today in SA, the likes of us who have money for expensive hobbies, pay for our own schools, medical care, transport, security in our neighbourhood, etc. And we are paying a healthy chunk of the taxes that provide a sub par service the rest of the population. Now we must also pay for our own roads and are forced to pay huge increases in electricity costs because government was sitting on its hands when upgrade time was there.

Ok
It weekend and hopefully the last of my rants.

[alternativeroute]

Let me put it more simply.

For me, if the choice is vastly improved highways with the toll or deteriorating highways without the toll, I would go for the toll. That's all my point is.

Yes I am lucky, I can comfortably afford the cost for my daily 20km use. To me, the alternative, being to let the country's infrastructure deteriorate into the sad state of most African countries is just not an option.

The highway refurbishment has saved me 10-15minutes out of my 45 minute commute each way(and who knows how much in fuel). That, I will gladly pay for.

The problem is that all this cash is already collected from licence disc fees and from the levies on fuel (more than 50% of the hard cost of fuel is made up of taxes and levies)

see https://docs.google.com/viewer?pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiooenPH8JZojk3Gzi4zPpJ10GZajDjoON6wcXmNEanj7rYm0B_Kfb8hvayPxBoBn3mxknmb0F5YdClPW7bvTCGiH7C37GG7hMpD6CqXAQZnYNhlLa1ZzhPblH_CCMjsNWTQACx&q=cache%3Ae_IM-Rk1sqYJ%3Awww.sasol.com%2Fsasol_internet%2Fdownloads%2FFuelPrice_calculation_SA_07_1170868230705.pdf%20south%20african%20fuel%20price%20formula&docid=7dba09a01a899cd36c7ddde27adbc86c&a=bi&pagenumber=1&w=799

The problem is not one of lack of funds but more of lack of management ability and state inefficiencies...

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/crumbling-roads-are-costing-us-billions-1.445593

The ill maintenance of South Africa's rail network has cost the country big time...

[placebo]

Let me put it more simply.

For me, if the choice is vastly improved highways with the toll or deteriorating highways without the toll, I would go for the toll. That's all my point is.

Yes I am lucky, I can comfortably afford the cost for my daily 20km use. To me, the alternative, being to let the country's infrastructure deteriorate into the sad state of most African countries is just not an option.

The highway refurbishment has saved me 10-15minutes out of my 45 minute commute each way(and who knows how much in fuel). That, I will gladly pay for.

At this rate I will either end up in the chill room or get banned completely.This is not about who can or can't pay or who would or wouldn't pay but about the morality of the fact that we the public are being fleeced once again whether we use the toll roads or not.Read the previous posts mickeyc and understand the objections to the tolling system.On the side I do not use toll roads 90% of the time as it is quicker for me to get to work using municipal roads at the moment.I am more concerned about the cost increasing inflation for those who cannot afford it and the morality of the whole idea.After all they only upgraded existing roads which we motorists have already paid for and continue to pay for at the pumps.
Let me watch the cricket and rant about that rather.

[Rodney_gold]

Economic freedom is coming , all Heil Prez Juju in 2022....